Right, shut your face and do as I tell you

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Sophie, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Sophie

    Sophie New Member

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    We are having a desolate spell on here right about now so I have decided that you all have to be given a job. The January job is the 1997 interviews. You have until Sunday to volunteer for a few pages or I'll volunteer you.
     
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  3. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    err,
    yes mam'.
     
  4. cynic

    cynic Active Member

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    Sophie, I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but here goes:

    ST: And for the purpose of the tape, we’re back on at five minutes till noon.
    TT: Patsy, let’s go ahead and um, start out on December 26th when you first woke up in the morning . . .
    PR: Um hum.
    TT: . . .and again as you (inaudible) on the 25th, kind of give us a, almost a play by play, minute by minute, what did you do when you got out of bed? Where was John at? That sort of thing. All the way through the morning to the afternoon. Let’s kind of take it, we’ll take it in little chunks.
    PR: Okay. Um, we got up at about 5:30, I think. I think John got up first and I got up just right behind him and he went to his bathroom and shower. I went to my bathroom. I did not shower that morning and I just put my clothes on and uh, did my hair and makeup and uh and then I started down the stairs, John was still in the bathroom and went uh, I stopped kind of briefly there in the laundry room area um, and I remember the ironing board was up I think and I fussed around with this little red jumpsuit of JonBenet’s cause it had, had some spots on it and I was going to remember to do something with that when I got back and uh, so I had, I had the light on in there in the laundry room area and uh, um then I started down the spiral staircase there. I came, I had come back down, I’d come down the back bedroom stairs there. . .
    TT: Okay.
    PR: . . .from my bathroom. Um, I started down the spiral stairs and when I got nearly to the bottom I saw these three pieces of paper, like notebook size paper, on, on the run of the stairs and uh, I went on down and turned around and started reading, reading it. . .
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: And uh, I, I remember reading the first couple of lines and I kind of, didn’t know what it was or uh, and then I (inaudible) you know after the first couple of lines I, it dawned on me, it said something about, ‘We have your daughter’ or something . . .
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: And I uh, I ran back upstairs and pushed open the door to her room and she wasn’t in her bed.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: And I uh, screamed for John. He was up in our bedroom still and he came running down and uh, I told him that there was a note that said she had been kidnapped. And uh, uh, I think he, he said, I said, ‘What should I do. What should I do,’ or something and he said, ‘Call the police,’ and I think somewhere, I remember I said something about, you know, check Burke or something and I think he ran back and checked Burke and I ran back down the stairs and then he came downstairs. He was just in his underwear and he uh, took the note and I remember him being down hunched on the floor read, with all three pages out like that reading it and uh, and he said, ‘Call 911’ or ‘Call the police,’ or something and then I did. I called them and uh, and then I called the Whites and the Fernies and told them that she had been kidnapped or said come over quickly or something and they came over and the policeman came and uh, then the Whites and the Fernies were there and uh . . .Oh, I think the policeman was asking, you know, he kind of like, I think he kind of got us (inaudible) in the sun room or something.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: That little room, patio room. . .
    TT: Um hum.

    Patsy gets up and does not shower – really?
    Patsy puts on the same clothes from the night before – Former Miss West Virginia, really?
    They check Burke, but don’t wake him up to make sure he hasn’t been killed in bed, or to ask him if he has heard anything?
    Patsy is hysterical, John is the cool CEO, and yet he tells her to call 911.
    Despite the clear warning in the ransom note, they not only call 911 but fail to convey to the dispatcher that visible police presence might lead to the death of their daughter.
    To further endanger their daughter they call friends over to the house - what is this, some sort of Christmas after-party?
     
  5. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Yep...I believe that's exactly what she had in mind. I am going to have to bow out of this one...I did much research on this awhile back, and have an entire thread devoted to it here and over at FFJ. I read those interviews so much, that my eyes crossed. I don't think that I can go back and do it again. If I can find my old thread...I will bring a few things over to this one, though.
     
  6. Ravyn

    Ravyn New Member

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    Actually I have brought the interviews up in some other threads...But will bring some up here....
     
  7. Ravyn

    Ravyn New Member

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    TT: Okay. Did John help you get packed up at all?
    PR: Uh, he, I believe, put some presents in the, in the Jeep.
    TT: Okay. But he didn’t. . .
    PR: Not the clothes.
    TT: . . .pack his own clothes or anything like that?
    PR: Oh, he probably would have packed his own clothes (inaudible) stuff.
    TT: Okay. And do you know where he had that suitcase at that he packed his clothes at? Was that in the uh, John Andrew’s room?
    PR: Um, no. It would, it would have been in his probably.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: I, I think I just had a couple of suitcase, the kids suitcases on the bed there, Burke’s and JonBenet’s.
    TT: Okay. So you had Burke’s and JonBenet’s suitcases in John Andrew’s room, your suitcase was upstairs and John’s would have been upstairs too then.
    PR: The best that I can remember, yeah.

    TT: Okay. What did Burke do when you got home then.
    PR: Um, I don’t remember exactly, but I think he went to go play with something. I think maybe he and John were fussing with something. A toy he wanted to put together or something.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .
    TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?
    PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.
    TT: Okay. And then the close to go to Charlevoix those were. . .
    PR: Right.
    TT: . . .in a plastic bag.
    PR: Plastic bag. Um hum.
    TT: And they were already to go? You said you carried down to (inaudible).
    PR: Yeah.
     
  8. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    HA! in a plastic bag...Patsy makes excuses for that in DOI,saying John liked 'soft-sided bags' instead of luggage on the plane..but then they'd still have luggage on there anyway,and I'm sure they could afford softsided luggage,so..
    IMO,they were planning on hightailing it out of town,and didn't have time to stuff everything into suitcases..and probably didn't own enough for all that anyway! shoving clothes into plastic bags indicates someone or someones was in a hurry!
     
  9. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    same here.I don't mind responding,but I read over those back when Ames posted them awhile back.took me an average of 2-3 hrs to read thru each one thoroughly.
    I think the things that stood out to me the most was when I read Patsy say she had flashbacks of JonBenet screaming.That I will never forget.
     
  10. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    In thinking about it,I think Patsy's attorney came up with that morning scenario for her,and it was pretty clever,actually.IMO it gives her a chance to say "maybe John did it".
    The scenario is: she wakes up to hear John in the shower.(IOW-he did not wake her,and she did not hear his alarm clock go off,which he said he'd set the night before).
    So if he didn't wake her,and was already in the shower when she awoke (nor did she hear his alarm)..perhaps he was elsewhere during the night,and was washing off evidence.(yes,he was elsewhere,alright,IMO.with her,staging the crime!)
     
  11. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    JR:And to even have known those windows were there, wouldn’t have been obvious to somebody who just was walking by. But . . .

    ST: You talking about the window in the back, was not obvious?

    JR: Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, it’s not obvious, but that is to me because that is the way to get into the house, and we know that the grate could be pulled off and the windows were not painted shut and, you know, it’s just I guess that’s why we never gave it much thought about . . .

    ?: And we asked a couple of times that that grates kind of out of the way, and you have to, I wouldn’t have known it was there. I mean, you can’t see from the back alleyway, you can’t see from the front. It’s out of the ordinary, out of the way picture, excuse me, out of the way window.

    JR: Yeah. And when I went down and looked around the house that morning, and I think I’d made a statement or at least I read, I know I said this, that all the doors were locked and I had checked, I believe, every door on the first floor. And they were, appeared to be locked.

    ST: So the morning of the 26th do you recall checking all the doors, and they were locked?

    JR: I believed I checked all the first-floor doors, yeah.




    Thanks JR.I'd really like to ask him how does he think a stranger got into their house then?I think JR did a mistake here....they wanted to blame it on someone known back then and by what he says here he just makes the intruder scenario sound even more ridiculous.I think he wanted to point fingers at someone who had access to a key.
     
  12. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    ST: OK. It would be no reason, a neighbor or anybody else, would account for you outside the home that morning?

    JR: No. I didn’t leave the house until we left it for good at almost 1:30.

    --------------------------
    later:

    JR: I did go out once. I went out to the door that leads into the garage to see if it was locked because there’s a bunch of boxes piled in front of it and you couldn’t get to it from the inside of the garage. So I did in fact go out of the house once, which would have been for, you know, half a minute.






    I think there is someone who saw him outside (at least that's what I udnerstand from ST's question) .And I think JR understood it too,at first he says no but then he probably realized that ST wouldn't make that statement without a reason and he changes the story.Smart guy eh.

    And I wonder if they checked everything in the garage.Btw,did PR's sister take bags outta there too?
     
  13. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    But wasn't the butler door said to be 'found' open? (IMO if it was,it was prob. one of the friends who came over that morning).this contradicts what JR had said.
     
  14. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    It was one of the male friends who came that morning, I believe, who said that when he arrived he found the butler pantry door open. BUT he also said he "saw" the pages of the ransom note through that door (which was glass) and we know that is NOT where the note was left. By the time he got there, LE was already there and they had possession of the note.
    As far as JR saying he didn't go out until they left at 1:30- that's a lie, too. The body was brought UP at 1:30. It was hours later that the house was finally cleared and the Rs left.
    Pretty much finishes Det. Arndt's silly statelement about JR going to "get his mail" for 2 hours that day. If he ADMITS he didn't leave- where was he for 2 hours? Maybe an alien kidnapping complete with missing time....
     
  15. cynic

    cynic Active Member

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    It was John "Eagle Vision" Fernie:

    John Fernie: "I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of your house, and went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen and back of the house, and didn't see anybody, but saw a piece of paper laying on the floor. Looked at that. It was facing the other direction. Read it. And after the first few lines realized something very strange was happening. And so I ran around to the front of the house and knocked on the door and was let in."
    John Fernie: "I didn't pick it up. It was inside the door and I was outside. The door was locked. I read it through the door."
    John Fernie: "Fleet and Priscilla White were there when I arrived. And my wife came shortly thereafter. And our -- Overstock, our priest, came afterwards as well."
    John Fernie: "My recollection is that later in the day, when we were waiting for phone calls from the supposed kidnappers, we were sitting in the back room with a detective and trying to figure out what the note meant. And there was a copy of the note. I don't know if it was the note, or a copy of the note, actually."
    2001 June 13 - Transcript Testimony of John Fernie - Colorado vs Miller trial

    Re: Butler door

    p. 19: “The sergeant found no evidence of forced entry during a walk through the house, then went outside. A light dusting of snow and frost lay atop an earlier crusty snow in spotty patches on the grass. He saw no fresh show impressions, found no open doors or windows, nothing to indicate a break-in, but walking on the driveway and sidewalks left no visible prints. It was frigid, about nine degrees, and Reichenbach returned inside."
    Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation – Steve Thomas
     
  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Heyya cynic and DeeDee.

    Q: if PR found the note on the staircase, and then placed it on the floor ... did JF spot the sheets of paper from the north door?

    http://crimeshots.com/RamseyFloor.html
     
  17. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

    TT: Okay. Do you remember if you ever wrote her a check for that $2,000, because I know she talked about it.
    PR: Right. I don’t think I did, because I think, I was thinking about that as I walked down the stairs that morning, that I, oh, I’ve got to remember to leave that check.


    I find it odd, PR can remember that detail, a quick thought in the seconds it would take to descend the staircase. Seconds before she notices the sheets of paper on the staricase and steps around that rung to avoid them.
    It's a very detailed recollection.
     
  18. cynic

    cynic Active Member

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    He was at the door across from the spiral staircase
    (X marks the spot)

    [​IMG]
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Piece of paper?Not the entire 3page novel?IF he's telling the truth,where were the other 2 pages?I mean you wouldn't call 3 pages a piece of paper right?
     
  20. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    @bold

    Yep and L.Wood was the screenwriter IMO.
     
  21. cynic

    cynic Active Member

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    Exactly, and if you look at where he said he was standing, how did the page(s) ever get close enough for him to read??? If the RN was anywhere near the spiral staircase, then Fernie is truly “Eagle Eye” Fernie, as a matter of fact, eagles, hawks and owls would be envious of his eyesight.
    From a test that another poster on another forum did, and my tests (try it yourselves), that note would have to be about 3 feet away from the door or closer to be readable. (Keep in mind that the note was also being read upside down.)
    The spiral staircase would probably be about 20 feet or more from the patio door.
    If Fernie is telling the truth, why would the RN be on the floor so close to that door and so far from the spiral staircase?
    BTW, I could never understand what would possess anyone to get down on their knees to read something on a hard floor as JR claims he did when 99.9% of humans would simply hold it in their hands or lay it on a table.

    Then I had to figure out how far the note had traveled, and how it got there, from the sprial staircase. Using the Floor Plan in Appendix A of PMPT, I noted that the south patio door was directly south of the spiral staircase but I had no idea how far. Using another bit of unscientific analysis I decided to determine if there was a possible scale to the floor plan without one being specifically mentioned.
    I live in a house that was built in 1927 about the time the Ramsey house was built. That may not be significant but I thought it interesting. I measured a standard door with facing to be about 41 inches wide and measured two of my hallways and found one to be 40" wide and the other to be 42" wide. Then I assumed the patio door was a standard door spanning the width of the hallway, which may be close. (I remember seeing the door in photos but can't find those photos at the moment. I don't remember it being that wide nor does the floor plan indicate much width of the hallway other than the width of the door). I measured the space allocated for the hallway door in the floor plan to be 5mm. I now had a conversion factor of 5mm = 41" or 1mm=8.2 inches. To proof this factor I used it on the Dining Room and found the the dining room to be 13' X19' which seemed reasonable to me since my Dining room is 11' X 15' and the Ramseys were living in a house bigger than mine. I also measured the Ramsey garage using this conversion model and found that two mid size cars (after measuring two midsize cars) could fit fairly easily in the garage.
    I then measured the space between the south patio door entrance and the numeral (1) listed in my floor plan as being the location of the Ransom Note.
    That distance, using my unscientific methods, was found to be about 18.5 feet. Subtracting 3 feet for the distance of the note from the door I come up with a movement of the Ransom Note of some 15 feet.
    I then pondered the information that John laid the note out on the floor for convenience and to use the hall lighting. I wondered how many lights and light switches were in the hallway and as to why he would have to move some 15 feet down the hall for a light switch and some light. I then rationalized that since it was Dec. 26, which it almost is right now, that he wasn't moving to use sunlight through the south patio door. It was 6AM and the sun rises in my neck of the woods (CST) at about 7:15 AM. Taking into the account the rotation of the earth and the time change for MST where I think Boulder is, I can rationalize that the sun probably rises there at 7:15 AM, or thereabouts, at Christmas time.
    So, did John have to go all the way to the end of the hallway to find a light switch and lighting? I then went to John Ramsey's 1998 interview with Law. Enf. (P.0134) and found a discussion JR had with Lou Smit about the light switches for the hallway. John is referring to a photo or floor plan Lou has presented and John responds (paraphrasing) that there are three switches for the hallway: one in the kitchen; one "here" (unknown) and one back here. (Italics added). I must now assume that the one "back here " is in the back of the house where the spiral staircase is and that logically the other light switch would be next to an entryway such as the south patio door. That may not be correct but since my analysis is unscientific, I can assume anything that is reasonably logical.
    Ok, my next step of analysis would be to determine if JR came down the spiral staircase which would place him at the location of the Ransom note, or down the front stairs which would place him in the foyer area of the first floor. Looking to Death of Innocence, Ramseys, P.11 and to the PR 1997 Interview with Law.Enf., she/Patsy stated in DOI that he came down "the main stairs." In the 1997 Interview she states (paraphrasing) that she thought John check on Burke and ran down the stairs. Well, the stairs closest to Burke's room are the main stairs.
    OK, let’s assume John does come down the spiral stairs with Patsy. She and he then proceed to the furthest light switch to gain light?
    Now let’s assume John comes down the main stairs. Once on the first floor he must turn right, go through the kitchen, which may or may not be lit as Patsy may have preceded him back to the hallway/kitchen/spiral stairway area, turn right again to retrieve the note, do a complete 180 degrees (and pick up the note which does not have his fingerprints on it) and return past a closer light switch in the kitchen or an already lit kitchen with Patsy in it, and proceed down a hallway to the south patio door.
    [ame="http://boards.library.trutv.com/showthread.php?t=280404"]Did The Ransom Note Grow Legs? - Crime Library Message Boards[/ame]
     

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