RULED OUT: Have we found Anna? Possible match to NamUs case UP 9597 - *NO MATCH*

SideKick

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Actually, when was the last time the creek was searched from the farmhouse to the ocean? I suspect shortly after the disappearance. If Anna had the rubber boots on, which she had first traded with the neighbour and then traded back, where are those boots now? I wonder if they could be found along the creek today? If If If, mind you. Has anyone tried to scour the creek in the last few years?
 

Cubby

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~ Thanks Annasbro,
I too agree with this theory, I'am having a hard time wrapping my head around the possiblity. Tho I don't want to type this at all... the only other way I can see Anna getting to the ocean is if someone did indeed grab her and take her down to the ocean. We don't know for sure how/if this new finding is Anna, how she got there... No sign of any rubber boots anywhere either....

xo


I think it is highly unlikely someone grabbed and took her. They would then have had to know and planned in advance for the accidental drowning in the creek theory. A kidnapper isn't going to think that far ahead. They would not have planned to leave her so near where the creek meets the Pacific Ocean. Especially when there is more than a 50' drop, iirc where the creek meets the ocean. Additionally they would have risked being seen on the beach. That scenario is just not plausible to me.

I found and added a youtube video of someone running along Purisima Creek and added it to the all other theories thread. After seeing the video, which includes some storm damage after the New Years '06 storms (according to whomever uploaded the video) I find it difficult to imagine every inch of the creek was surveyed. I don't know how someone could safely do so with the sharp angles around the creek. More likely, I see a scenario which includes mudslides which may have obstructed Anna, the boots and her clothing during the initial searches. If that were the case, it would be virtually impossible to dig or even know where mud may have slid and it would have taken years, possibly decades to erode what may have been inches or a foot or more of mud which may have slid down and covered Anna......


I've also wondered if perhaps the bones from the old Purisima cemetary which, iirc, Joe Ford mentioned was very near the almost impenetrable area near Verde Rd. and Purisima Creek road had become exposed, or possibly a burial on a private lot. However, in all the cases I recall, the coroners office has known almost immediately, within 2 mo's tops of the find, that the remains are 'ancient' or old native Indian remains. So I really don't see that as very plausible either.


ETA: Here is a link to the post with the video of Purisima Creek.
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raf

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Hi all,
so many long time, but I read all posts... I never missed Anna in my heart... my prayers are for Annasmom... :heartbeat:
raf
 

SideKick

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I think it is highly unlikely someone grabbed and took her. They would then have had to know and planned in advance for the accidental drowning in the creek theory. A kidnapper isn't going to think that far ahead. They would not have planned to leave her so near where the creek meets the Pacific Ocean. Especially when there is more than a 50' drop, iirc where the creek meets the ocean. Additionally they would have risked being seen on the beach. That scenario is just not plausible to me.

I found and added a youtube video of someone running along Purisima Creek and added it to the all other theories thread. After seeing the video, which includes some storm damage after the New Years '06 storms (according to whomever uploaded the video) I find it difficult to imagine every inch of the creek was surveyed. I don't know how someone could safely do so with the sharp angles around the creek. More likely, I see a scenario which includes mudslides which may have obstructed Anna, the boots and her clothing during the initial searches. If that were the case, it would be virtually impossible to dig or even know where mud may have slid and it would have taken years, possibly decades to erode what may have been inches or a foot or more of mud which may have slid down and covered Anna......


I've also wondered if perhaps the bones from the old Purisima cemetary which, iirc, Joe Ford mentioned was very near the almost impenetrable area near Verde Rd. and Purisima Creek road had become exposed, or possibly a burial on a private lot. However, in all the cases I recall, the coroners office has known almost immediately, within 2 mo's tops of the find, that the remains are 'ancient' or old native Indian remains. So I really don't see that as very plausible either.


ETA: Here is a link to the post with the video of Purisima Creek.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theory #4: All Other Theories

~ thanks for the video, the water is really running hard...

I just had to get that off my chest as that is the only other way I could see Anna getting to the ocean and felt it should at least be mentioned as some have brought this possibility to my attention. Tho a remote thought it did come to mind considering the child support payments issue, the mysterious car on the road with the two men and the woman in the car talking to Anna and Bro's.

~ I do think that Anna may have slipped on the muddy sides of the creek, perhaps that is what the neighbours heard, the russelling in the bush.
 

Cubby

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~
~ I do think that Anna may have slipped on the muddy sides of the creek, perhaps that is what the neighbours heard, the russelling in the bush.


Respectfully snipped. Thank you for the reminder about what the neighbor heard. I'd have to go back and re-read, but iirc, the area where the neighbor heard the rustling in the brush was from the same direction the scent/search dogs originally tracked. That was upstream or east? I remember the dogs tracked upstream, and I am thinking now that what the neighbor heard was upstream also. I do recall what the neighbor heard occuring east of the house. That would seem to add more credibility to accidently falling into the creek on slippery mud near the creeks edge.
 

Cubby

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Carried over from other threads, regarding what the neighbor heard and the direction in which the dogs tracked Anna's scent.

No tire tracks were noticed; fields adjacent to the driveway were fenced. The neighbor was riding her horse on (paved) Purisima Creek Road, just east of the house. She asked what was going on when she heard the siren and all the commotion and said that she had heard rustling in the bushes down by the creek and thought someone was stealing something.

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Here's a sketch with a guess as to the distance from the road to the creek (I am not good at estimating distances, however.) There wouldn't have been any animals in the brush beside the creek during daylight. Another point is that the tracking dogs turned east (upstream) before they gave up. Do ask me anything which isn't clear on this drawing.

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The above leads me to believe what the neighbor likely heard was Anna falling into the creek. The search dogs tracking her to that area also seem to confirm this possibility.
 

Annasmom

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Carried over from other threads, regarding what the neighbor heard and the direction in which the dogs tracked Anna's scent.



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theory #3: Other Stranger Abduction





Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theory #3: Other Stranger Abduction



The above leads me to believe what the neighbor likely heard was Anna falling into the creek. The search dogs tracking her to that area also seem to confirm this possibility.

It is not easy to read all this speculation, and I would like to refer people back to the book Searching for Anna. The dogs tracked UPSTREAM, to the east, rather than downstream to the west, before they gave up, and their owner said results were completely inconclusive because of the wet ground. The neighbor, who was on horseback on the pavement at least a quarter-mile away from the creek, said that she heard movement in the bushes UPSTREAM a short time before she heard the sirens and that her first thought was that someone was stealing something. The late Sgt. Brendan Maguire, who conducted initial investigations in person, said that nothing at all was conclusive either way.

I of all people am finding it incredibly difficult to wait, but I must ask all of you to avoid jumping to conclusions until the facts are in. Jumping to conclusions was one reason that the case was sidelined many years ago. I don't see how you can jump to a conclusion before you have any evidence.

That said, I now feel that the family, Detective Gilletti, Doogie and the members of WebSleuths are the only people who really care about this case now. So often I have felt isolated in my misery, but you have all made the journey with me this far and you have probably saved my sanity (I suspect that many of my friends and acquaintances think I am completely loony and obsessed about this and just wish I would get on with my life.)

The media has expressed no interest whatsoever in reviving this story...which maybe goes to prove my point.

At any rate, thank you all.
 

Annasbro

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Carried over from other threads, regarding what the neighbor heard and the direction in which the dogs tracked Anna's scent.



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theory #3: Other Stranger Abduction





Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Theory #3: Other Stranger Abduction



The above leads me to believe what the neighbor likely heard was Anna falling into the creek. The search dogs tracking her to that area also seem to confirm this possibility.
I was thinking the same. The dogs tracking the scent then losing it in that area makes sense. The particular area that they went was one of the only clear areas that was easily accessible. It was directly east of the bridge and near the old water wheel and grain mill barn. There is a flat open spot there. That was the bridge that Hulkie the rooster was thrown off. The deep pool to the west of the bridge was where the divers were searching.
 

Cubby

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I'm sorry Annasmom. I did not mean to upset you by my posts. My intent was only to show why I believed an accident was more likely than a kidnapping, if these remains are determined to be Anna. Not to exclude any theory prior to having the results, as it will be some time before we have that information.

I did speak with Dr. Doogie last night and asked if he could obtain the following information from the coroner or LE.

1)Can they tell us which lab will be used and if they will be using UNTCHI?
2)Have they conclusively ruled out the possibility these are ancient remains?
3)Can they give us a ball park or estimated time frame in which results should be known?
 

Annasbro

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It is not easy to read all this speculation, and I would like to refer people back to the book Searching for Anna. The dogs tracked UPSTREAM, to the east, rather than downstream to the west, before they gave up, and their owner said results were completely inconclusive because of the wet ground. The neighbor, who was on horseback on the pavement at least a quarter-mile away from the creek, said that she heard movement in the bushes UPSTREAM a short time before she heard the sirens and that her first thought was that someone was stealing something. The late Sgt. Brendan Maguire, who conducted initial investigations in person, said that nothing at all was conclusive either way.

I of all people am finding it incredibly difficult to wait, but I must ask all of you to avoid jumping to conclusions until the facts are in. Jumping to conclusions was one reason that the case was sidelined many years ago. I don't see how you can jump to a conclusion before you have any evidence.

That said, I now feel that the family, Detective Gilletti, Doogie and the members of WebSleuths are the only people who really care about this case now. So often I have felt isolated in my misery, but you have all made the journey with me this far and you have probably saved my sanity (I suspect that many of my friends and acquaintances think I am completely loony and obsessed about this and just wish I would get on with my life.)

The media has expressed no interest whatsoever in reviving this story...which maybe goes to prove my point.

At any rate, thank you all.

You are right Mom - speculation is just spinning around the facts we know and trying to rationalize them. The final word will be the DNA. Once we know that we can progress with the questions in a more meaningful way.
 

smile22

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i turned on my ipod yesterday and in my song shuffle this is the first song that came on its by country band Shedaisy called Come Home Soon. made me think of anna

don't know what you're doin'
And I don't know where you are
But I look up at that great big sky
And I hope you're wishin' on that same
bright star
 

mysteriew

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It is not easy to read all this speculation, and I would like to refer people back to the book Searching for Anna. The dogs tracked UPSTREAM, to the east, rather than downstream to the west, before they gave up, and their owner said results were completely inconclusive because of the wet ground. The neighbor, who was on horseback on the pavement at least a quarter-mile away from the creek, said that she heard movement in the bushes UPSTREAM a short time before she heard the sirens and that her first thought was that someone was stealing something. The late Sgt. Brendan Maguire, who conducted initial investigations in person, said that nothing at all was conclusive either way.

I of all people am finding it incredibly difficult to wait, but I must ask all of you to avoid jumping to conclusions until the facts are in. Jumping to conclusions was one reason that the case was sidelined many years ago. I don't see how you can jump to a conclusion before you have any evidence.

That said, I now feel that the family, Detective Gilletti, Doogie and the members of WebSleuths are the only people who really care about this case now. So often I have felt isolated in my misery, but you have all made the journey with me this far and you have probably saved my sanity (I suspect that many of my friends and acquaintances think I am completely loony and obsessed about this and just wish I would get on with my life.)

The media has expressed no interest whatsoever in reviving this story...which maybe goes to prove my point.

At any rate, thank you all.

I can only imagine how many times you have gone through this over the years. Hearing that there may be news, having to wait till more is known. And in the past always having it ruled out. That in itself takes a tremendous toll on a person.

My prayers have been that they will find DNA. That there will be something they can use to either rule it in or rule it out.
 

pdxmama

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I have followed this case throughout the years but never posted. I have always been so amazed at the perseverance and strength of Anna's family. I am praying hard that they will have answers soon.
 

audie

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These pictures make it look impossible. But I grew up in the Bay Area, and believe me, those creeks turn into raging rivers when they are flooded. There are often redwood tree trunks that make it to the ocean after larger floods.

What I don't know is just how flooded it was when Anna went missing.
This is the second time that this has happened to me recently. Last year, I was at a friends and saw this book. "Searching for Anna". I search for people on a fairly regular basis and had never heard of this case. I asked to borrow the book. I just finished reading it last week and at the same time I decided to start reading/posting at WS again. I had forgotten that WS was mentioned in the book, when I came across this forum. And then to find out that there may be an answer. My head is spinning.

These few remains were found before the book came out, I think.

Anyway, back to why I'm replying to Katydid, is that I was on a search for 4 yr old Hallie Jenkins. April 2009, it was raining very hard and this car load of adults and kids drove off into this large ditch at Greens Rd in north Houston TX. 4 children in all drowned. We estimated that the water got to be 15-20 ft high. This ditch runs straight down to where it runs into Greens Bayou near the north beltway (Sam Houston Toll Rd). Just before it runs into the bayou there is a large pipe that dumps out into the ditch (the water had receded by the time we started searching). Where this pipe dumps out, it eroded a large hole in the ditch. From where they went into the water to this hole is 0.7 miles. She was in this hole. She surfaced after we probed it.

So what I'm saying is, fast moving, deep water, straight w/no obstructions and she only went 0.7 miles. Mind you that this water was not flowing down a mountain and Hallie was only about 50-100 ft from going into Greens Bayou. If she would have gotten into there, she may never have been found. The power of water is incredible.

Sorry I made this story so long.

My prayers go out to Anna's family.
 

Cubby

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This is the second time that this has happened to me recently. Last year, I was at a friends and saw this book. "Searching for Anna". I search for people on a fairly regular basis and had never heard of this case. I asked to borrow the book. I just finished reading it last week and at the same time I decided to start reading/posting at WS again. I had forgotten that WS was mentioned in the book, when I came across this forum. And then to find out that there may be an answer. My head is spinning.

These few remains were found before the book came out, I think.

My prayers go out to Anna's family.


Welcome to Anna's forum, audie. Yes, these remains were found before the book came out. However, if you check the NamUs link, you will see they were not entered into NamUs until December 11, 2011.

We were not aware these remains were those of a child until just this last month. Since they were not entered into NamUs until December of 2011, there was no way to know they existed when the book was written and published.
 

Cubby

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i turned on my ipod yesterday and in my song shuffle this is the first song that came on its by country band Shedaisy called Come Home Soon. made me think of anna

don't know what you're doin'
And I don't know where you are
But I look up at that great big sky
And I hope you're wishin' on that same
bright star


Thanks for these lyrics. They made me smile.
There are lots of times over the years I have looked at the stars and wondered if Anna was somewhere looking at that same star. In fact I did again last night. There was a star so bright, I had to stand there for several minutes to make sure it wasn't a plane, since we are fairly close to the airport. It was a bright beautiful star which made me think of Anna and how bright she shines in all of our lives, wherever she is....
 

Odyssey

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Annasmom,

How familiar are you with the location where the remains were found? Do you know if it was in an open sandy area, or in a rocky area? I am wondering if there might be any use in going out to that location to see if anything else can be found... I know it was 5-6 years ago but that is actually a short amount of time in the grand scheme of things...

It kind of sounds like someone stumbled across them... but I wonder if the area was ever searched afterwards?

I am about 45 minutes away from there... not sure how far you and Doogie are, but just thought I'd suggest maybe getting a group together....
 

Cubby

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cubby....wouldn´t you think if Anna falling into the creeks that neighbour wouldn´t have heard kinda Annas scream?



Honestly, I think a slip or fall would happen so quickly there wouldn't be time for a scream.

Years ago I went white water rafting on the Wolf River in Wisconsin. Over one of the falls, we were tossed out of the raft and I became caught in an eddy. After spinning and spinning and being unable to get my face more than within inches of the surface of the water, it took me a little bit to figure out to stick my feet out in front of me and I shot out about 20-25' away in a matter of seconds. There was no time to scream and there was no way I would have had enough air to scream. I promised God if I made it out alive I would never raft again and haven't.

If Anna fell into the water, there is no way she would have had enough time or air to scream. It would have all happened so quickly, literally seconds.
 
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