RULED OUT: Have we found Anna? Possible match to NamUs case UP 9597 - *NO MATCH*

Annasbro

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Annasmom,

How familiar are you with the location where the remains were found? Do you know if it was in an open sandy area, or in a rocky area? I am wondering if there might be any use in going out to that location to see if anything else can be found... I know it was 5-6 years ago but that is actually a short amount of time in the grand scheme of things...

It kind of sounds like someone stumbled across them... but I wonder if the area was ever searched afterwards?

I am about 45 minutes away from there... not sure how far you and Doogie are, but just thought I'd suggest maybe getting a group together....
That sounds like a good idea actually. I was thinking the same thing.
 

Annasmom

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You are right Mom - speculation is just spinning around the facts we know and trying to rationalize them. The final word will be the DNA. Once we know that we can progress with the questions in a more meaningful way.

A former piano student of mine put this quotation from Gregory David Roberts' novel Shantaram on Facebook:

"Sometimes, we see the past so clearly, and read the legend of its parts with such acuity, that every stitch of time reveals its purpose, and a kind of message is enfolded in it. Nothing in any life, no matter how well or poorly lived, is wiser than failure or clearer than sorrow. And in the tiny, precious wisdom that they give to us, even those dread and hated enemies, suffering and failure, have their reason and their right to be."
 

believe09

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That sounds like a good idea actually. I was thinking the same thing.

Can you wait for the DNA to be processed or approach the jurisdiction as to whether or not they looked further and where they looked?
 

Annasmom

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Can you wait for the DNA to be processed or approach the jurisdiction as to whether or not they looked further and where they looked?

This was a completely random finding "by a citizen" (according to the report) six years ago. Detective Gilletti says they had no indication until last month that the fragment was that of a child. A shell left on the beach will not be there the next day, and the beach between Pompanio and San Gregorio stretches several miles. Gilletti also says that no determination has been made as to the age of the specimen itself. I am quite sure that no additional search was made of the area, and I don't see how such a search could possibly give us any more information at this point. Yes, it is hard to wait.
 

smile22

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if they cannot extract dna do they have any other way of finding out more info on the remains or whos they may possibly be?
 

Cubby

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if they cannot extract dna do they have any other way of finding out more info on the remains or whos they may possibly be?


DNA or dental records is the only way an official ID can be made. DNA samples, viable dna samples, have been obtained from much older remains. Not long ago one of the unidentified children who perished on the titanic was identified. Scientists were succesfully able to obtain a viable dna sample from the remains of the child. See article:
http://www.livescience.com/13859-titanic-unknown-child-identification-sidney-goodwin.html

Also, the CA/DOJ identified remains found in 1971 that belonged to a 1946 murder victim. It took the CA/DOJ
5 years to obtain a viable dna sample, but they did.
Identified! CA - Baker - Female Skeletal Found in Desert Jan 1971 - Beddie Walraven (Died 1946) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I don't want it to take 5 years, which is why I am glad San Mateo County is sending the specimen to a private lab. So for me, it is not a matter of if a dna sample can be obtained. It's a matter of how long it may take. I'm hoping Det. Giletti or the coroners office can give us an estimate within the next week or two. Even a ball park estimate would be better than having no idea on an estimated wait time.

hth
 

Annasmom

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Actually, when was the last time the creek was searched from the farmhouse to the ocean? I suspect shortly after the disappearance. If Anna had the rubber boots on, which she had first traded with the neighbour and then traded back, where are those boots now? I wonder if they could be found along the creek today? If If If, mind you. Has anyone tried to scour the creek in the last few years?

Sorry I missed your post before.

Doogie and I put flyers in every mailbox on Purisima Creek Road about five years ago. Many of the neighbors were the same ones who lived there when Anna disappeared, and I feel sure that everyone has kept a lookout over time. Someone expressed doubt that all of Purisima Creek was searched. ALL the creek was searched, not a dozen times, but hundreds of times. Joe Ford was still searching the creek twenty years after Anna disappeared. The only gap in the search was from the woman who bought the farm after we left. She never responded to any of our inquiries, ever.

Yes, you would have thought the boots would surface somewhere.
 

Annasbro

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exactly - we found the rooster but not a boot , jacket, shirt, - anything....
 

mysteriew

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The boots were likely the first thing to separate from Anna's body. In local drownings I've seen a couple. In one the body was without one of it's tennis shoes. I was told that wasn't unusual, that shoes often came off. Rubber boots would be looser than tennis shoes. So if they came off, were swept downstream, it may have been long before the body went down, may have even made it into the ocean very quickly.

And even when it is known that a child went missing "somewhere" up the creek, if anyone ever saw the boots months later there is a strong possibility that they may not have connected the boots with a missing child. Esp. if they knew that the creek had been searched and nothing found.
 

Annasmom

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You know, Anna's brother and I are reading these posts, and it would help us a lot if you would try to stay positive and keep away from morbid speculation.
 

Cubby

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And even when it is known that a child went missing "somewhere" up the creek, if anyone ever saw the boots months later there is a strong possibility that they may not have connected the boots with a missing child. Esp. if they knew that the creek had been searched and nothing found.


Respectfully snipped. That's a possibility I considered as well. It's possible the boots did surface but whomever found them did not associate them as evidence in a missing child case. Especially with the numerous biking, hiking and horseback trails in the area.
 

Cubby

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This was a completely random finding "by a citizen" (according to the report) six years ago. Detective Gilletti says they had no indication until last month that the fragment was that of a child. A shell left on the beach will not be there the next day, and the beach between Pompanio and San Gregorio stretches several miles. Gilletti also says that no determination has been made as to the age of the specimen itself. I am quite sure that no additional search was made of the area, and I don't see how such a search could possibly give us any more information at this point. Yes, it is hard to wait.


First, let me say I fully agree that an additional search today would not give us any more information. I do however have to disagree that an additional search was not made at the time. There would have likely been a police report and some sort of search to determine if the area was a crime scene. It would have been pretty shoddy police work to neglect seeing if any additional remains were in the area or if the location was possibly a crime scene. A police report should exist somewhere with regards to the discovery and what was known at the time of discovery. Though, I am sure if additional remains were found they would have been listed at NamUs.
 

Chicken Hawk

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I have read Anna's book and followed this thread for a long time, however not posting often.

I have a few thoughts on this. It seems strange to me that a couple tried to lure Anna into a car and then a week later she is missing (IIRC). Now 40 years later they find a bone on a beach close to where she went missing. Wouldn't you think that bone could be from anywhere? What kind of currents does the ocean have? Would something that went into the ocean in that area stay in that area, or would tides/currents carry it elsewhere. I would think that any bone(s) in a creek from 40 years ago would be long gone, especially if that creek emptied into the ocean.

My mind just keeps going back to the couple who tried to get her in the car.....

Keeping Anna and her family in my thoughts and prayers.
 

Cubby

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It is possible the bone fragment washed up from another much further area. Recently there has been information in the news that debris from the tsunami in Japan has washed up on the western shores of the US and Canada -ranging from the San Diego area to the British Columbia area. Without the police report or coroners investigation report (not sure who would head up the investigation) to determine what, if anything else, was found, we really don't know and can't determine where this bone fragment may have originated. The coroners office will sometimes add personal effects found near the remains if they believe it will help lead to an identification. Sometimes personal items such as clothing, jewelry, or even coins/currency are added to NamUs and the other databases. No personal effects or items are listed with this particular NamUs case.

It could go either way. After sitting at Wrigley Field 5 outs away from going to the World Series and not going, I've learned to never to say it's gonna happen, until it happens.

Nothing other than DNA will give us the results....... Whatever the outcome.
The outcome has already been determined, we just don't know what it is yet.
 

Cubby

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Another possibility is the remains may belong to someone else who was already identified and is no longer listed as missing. There have been cases where partial remains are found years apart, it happened with those lost in the world trade center. The coroners office would not know this prior to obtaining dna and possibly being able to link it to another already solved case.
 

mysteriew

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You know, Anna's brother and I are reading these posts, and it would help us a lot if you would try to stay positive and keep away from morbid speculation.

I apologize if my post brought you pain. I know you probably have enough of that right now. I am sorry.
 

SideKick

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Great BIG warm HUGS and LOVE to everyone today ♥ ♥ ♥
In the name of Anna we joined a forum to try to do our best as a team to find answers.
PEACE and Love to all, especially to both Anna's families.
 

OzzieMum

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You know, Anna's brother and I are reading these posts, and it would help us a lot if you would try to stay positive and keep away from morbid speculation.

I completely agree Annasmom.

The more I have thought about this the less I believe this is Anna, in fact I personally do not believe it is Anna. I do not think discussing the creek and different scenarios serves any positive purpose. It is what it is and if I am wrong and this does prove to be Anna then the facts and pretty self explanatory.

Out of respect for you and Annasbro, I think this thread should be kept to discussing the DNA testing and the facts. I am concerned that you have requested several times for people to be mindful of what they are posting because you are finding it difficult to read yet is has continued.

If people would like to discuss the creek and various scenarios then maybe someone should start a thread named "The Creek" which you could choose to read or not read.

We are here to support you not cause you further pain.

I do not wish to upset anyone by posting this but I just had to get it off my chest as I have been getting more annoyed about it by the day.

JMHO

Love and prayers to you, Anna and your family.
 

Cubby

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Thank You OzzieMum. Very well stated.

Actually there are 4 existing threads set up to cover the various theories. Rather than start a duplicate thread, please take a look at which of the 4 theory threads best fits further theory discussion.

I asked the mods to please review this thread and move any posts to theory threads as they deem appropriate.

The wait is hard for all of us, but none as hard as Anna's family. I too don't wish to make this wait any more difficult than it already is.

Hugs and prayers,
Cubby
 

Odyssey

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You know, Anna's brother and I are reading these posts, and it would help us a lot if you would try to stay positive and keep away from morbid speculation.


I spent some time pondering this today... you made me realize something.

A lot of us spend quite a bit of time researching these cases, and I think we reach a point where we become almost numb to reading/posting about certain subject matter, just because we see it so frequently. I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I think it is necessary to be somewhat numb to it, in order to be able to do this type of work and remain sane... but I think there is a fine line between a healthy numbness, and an inability to be sensitive and to feel the magnitude of how disturbing some of this stuff actually is... and I was wondering if I had crossed that line a bit...

Thank you for making me stop and think about this... it was something I needed to think about but I just didn't know it.

I am really sorry if we have posted anything that was offensive.
 
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