Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #9

Arkay

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I'm confused.


Russia's President Putin and Russia’s deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov expressing very different reactions about the plans of Finland and Sweden to join NATO.


So which is it...Ehhh we don't care, no threat to us or we won't put up with it, grave mistake with far-reaching consequences?


WHO'S IN CHARGE IN RUSSIA!??


"As far as expansion goes, including new members Finland and Sweden, Russia has no problems with these states - none. And so in this sense there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion to include these countries," Putin said.



“The situation is, of course, changing radically in light of what is happening,” Russia’s deputy foreign minister, Sergei Ryabkov, said on Monday. “The fact that Finland and Sweden’s security will not be strengthened as a result of this is very clear to us.”

Ryabkov added that the two Nordic nations “should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it”, warning that the move was “another grave mistake with far-reaching consequences” and the “general level of military tension will increase”.


This is the way I imagine why there's a discrepancy....my conjecture but based on what we know of Putin....

PUTIN Is ALWAYS the ONLY one in charge of Russia.

Therefore, to my mind, the contradictions are due to the following:

A) Putin's a liar.
B) Putin doesn't like to show the West that anything we can conceivably do disturbs him in any way.
C) Yet Putin still needs to get his message across that Finland and Sweden had better not cross him.
D) Putin allows his mouthpiece to make a pronouncement that diverges from Putin's own, to keep the West on its toes.
E) If Ryabkov made this statement somehow WITHOUT Putin's approval, we will find that out when Ryabkov is found poisoned or is reported to have "committed suicide."

Just my speculation
 

sunshineray

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4h ago18.01

Catch up​

  • Russia’s foreign ministry said it will only consider opening access to Ukraine’s Black Sea ports if the removal of sanctions against Russia is also considered. Remarks by the Russian deputy foreign minister, Andrei Rudenko, came after the UN food chief, David Beasley, pleaded with Vladimir Putin, saying millions would die around the world because of the Russian blockade of the ports.
  • Ukraine’s top presidential adviser and member of the negotiating team, Mykhailo Podolyak, said a ceasefire with Russia is “impossible without total Russian troops withdrawal”. Podolyak said Kyiv is not interested in a new “Minsk”, referring to the 2015 Minsk agreement, brokered by France and Germany, which attempted to secure a ceasefire between the Ukrainian government and Russia-backed separatists in the east of Ukraine.
  • Russia’s defence ministry said 1,730 Ukrainian fighters have surrendered from Azovstal since Monday. That includes a further 771 who surrendered, they said, in the last 24 hours. Eighty were wounded. The ministry said “those in need of inpatient treatment receive assistance in medical institutions” in Novoazovsk and Donetsk.
  • The head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic in eastern Ukraine, Denis Pushilin, said more than half of the Ukrainian fighters who were inside Mariupol’s Azovstal steel plant have now left the plant. The reports are unclear on an exact number and have not been independently verified. There has been confusion over exactly how many fighters were besieged in the plant.
  • The US president, Joe Biden, said Finland and Sweden “meet every Nato requirement and then some” to join the alliance and have the “full, complete backing” of the US. Speaking at a joint press conference at the White House, Sweden’s prime minister, Magdalena Andersson, said Russia’s “full-scale aggression” against Ukraine led to the “watershed moment” for her country to decide to apply for Nato membership. Finland’s president, Sauli Niinistö, said his country was open to discussing Turkey’s concerns over its application to join Nato.
  • Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, said he had told allies he would “say no” to Finland and Sweden’s Nato membership bid. He also accused Sweden and Finland of harbouring and financing “terrorists” and supplying them with weapons, adding: “Nato is a security alliance and we cannot accept terrorists to be in it.”
  • Biden’s national security advisor, Jake Sullivan, expressed confidence that there was a way to assuage Turkish concerns over bids by Sweden and Finland to join Nato. “We believe that the Turkish concerns about the accession of Sweden and Finland that have been expressed by Erdogan and others can be addressed and can be resolved,” he said. British defence minister Ben Wallace delivered a similar message to UK parliament
  • A court in Kyiv met for a second hearing in the first war crimes trial arising from Russia’s 24 February invasion. Vadim Shishimarin, a 21-year-old tank commander, asked a Ukrainian widow to forgive him for the murder of her husband after pleading guilty yesterday to killing an unarmed 62-year-old civilian in the north-east Ukrainian village of Chupakhivka on 28 February.
  • The UK’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, held a phone conversation with Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, to discuss military support and global food security. The pair looked at options to “open up critical sea and land supply routes for Ukrainian grain stocks”, Downing Street said. Zelenskiy said he also updated Johnson about “the course of hostilities and the operation to rescue the military from Azovstal”.
  • The evacuation of Ukrainian troops from the southern port city of Mariupol continues, according to a Ukrainian general. Oleksiy Gromov, the deputy chief of the general staff of Ukraine’s armed forces, said: “In the Mariupol direction, measures are being taken to evacuate our heroes.” He did not provide details.
  • The US Congress on Thursday approved $40bn in military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, with both parties eagerly backing the latest effort to support an ally under brutal assault by Russia. Biden thanked Congress for working together – a rarity these days.
  • G7 financial leaders have agreed on $18.4bn (£14.7bn) to help Ukraine and said they were ready to stand by Kyiv and “do more as needed”, according to a draft communique seen by Reuters. Finance ministers and central bank governors of the US, Japan, Canada, Britain, Germany, France and Italy are holding talks as Ukraine is running out of cash.
  • More than a million Ukrainian refugees have already returned home, according to the country’s ambassador to the UK, Vadym Prystaiko. He said that the mayors of Kyiv and Kharkiv had had to tell people not to return to the cities as it was still unsafe.
  • In his nightly address, Zelenskiy gave a dire assessment of the situation Donbas. “There’s hell, and that’s not an exaggeration,” he said. “Donbas is completely destroyed.” As the war drags on, the monthly budget deficit in Ukraine is $5b, he said. “And to endure the war for freedom, we need quick and sufficient financial support.”
What the heck is this all about? Turkey's President is calling Finland and Sweden terrorists!?:oops:

 

Mo Thuairim

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What the heck is this all about? Turkey's President is calling Finland and Sweden terrorists!?:oops:

Turkey blasts Swedish, Finnish support for rebels at NATO meeting​

Turkey’s foreign minister has described as “unacceptable and outrageous” the support that prospective new NATO members Sweden and Finland give to the PKK, a Kurdish rebel group designated a “terrorist” organisation by Ankara and its Western allies.

The PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) has waged a rebellion against the Turkish state since 1984 that has claimed the lives of tens of thousands of people, and Ankara’s criticism of Sweden and Finland has potentially complicated plans for NATO’s enlargement.

“The problem is that these two countries are openly supporting and engaging with PKK and YPG [People’s Protection Units],” Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Saturday as he arrived in Berlin for a meeting with his NATO counterparts.

(...)

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, said earlier on Saturday that Turkey had not shut the door to Sweden and Finland joining NATO, but negotiations are needed with the Nordic countries and a clampdown on what Ankara views as terrorist activities.

Turkey considers YPG, the US-backed Kurdish fighters based in Syria, a “terrorist” organisation. Ankara views YPG as a PKK affiliate.

“We are not closing the door. But we are basically raising this issue as a matter of national security for Turkey,” Kalin, who is also the president’s top foreign policy adviser, told Reuters in an interview in Istanbul.

Kalin said the PKK was fundraising and recruiting in Europe and its presence was “strong and open and acknowledged” in Sweden, in particular.

(...)

Asked whether Turkey risked being too transactional at a time of war, and when Finnish and Swedish public opinion favours NATO membership, Kalin said, “If they [Finland and Sweden] have a public concerned about their own national security, we have a public that is equally concerned about our own security,” he said.

Kalin said Russia’s sharp criticism of Finland and Sweden for their plans to join NATO was not a factor in Turkey’s position.

(...)

 

dotr

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What the heck is this all about? Turkey's President is calling Finland and Sweden terrorists!?:oops:


They might be the happiest ''terrorists '' in the world!
2022 rbbm.
''For the fifth year in a row, Finland is the world's happiest country, according to World Happiness Report rankings based largely on life evaluations from the Gallup World Poll.
The Nordic country and its neighbors Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Iceland all score very well
on the measures the report uses to explain its findings: healthy life expectancy, GDP per capita, social support in times of trouble, low corruption and high social trust, generosity in a community where people look after each other and freedom to make key life decisions.
Denmark comes in at No. 2 in this year's rankings, followed by Iceland at No. 3. Sweden and Norway are seventh and eighth, respectively.
Switzerland, the Netherlands and Luxembourg take places 4 through 6, with Israel coming in at No. 9 and New Zealand rounding out the top 10.
Canada (No. 15), the United States (No. 16) and the United Kingdom (No. 17) all made it into the top 20.''
 

sunshineray

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Turkey blasts Swedish, Finnish support for rebels at NATO meeting​

Turkey’s foreign minister has described as “unacceptable and outrageous” the support that prospective new NATO members Sweden and Finland give to the PKK, a Kurdish rebel group designated a “terrorist” organisation by Ankara and its Western allies.

The PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) has waged a rebellion against the Turkish state since 1984 that has claimed the lives of tens of thousands of people, and Ankara’s criticism of Sweden and Finland has potentially complicated plans for NATO’s enlargement.

“The problem is that these two countries are openly supporting and engaging with PKK and YPG [People’s Protection Units],” Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said on Saturday as he arrived in Berlin for a meeting with his NATO counterparts.

(...)

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, said earlier on Saturday that Turkey had not shut the door to Sweden and Finland joining NATO, but negotiations are needed with the Nordic countries and a clampdown on what Ankara views as terrorist activities.

Turkey considers YPG, the US-backed Kurdish fighters based in Syria, a “terrorist” organisation. Ankara views YPG as a PKK affiliate.

“We are not closing the door. But we are basically raising this issue as a matter of national security for Turkey,” Kalin, who is also the president’s top foreign policy adviser, told Reuters in an interview in Istanbul.

Kalin said the PKK was fundraising and recruiting in Europe and its presence was “strong and open and acknowledged” in Sweden, in particular.

(...)

Asked whether Turkey risked being too transactional at a time of war, and when Finnish and Swedish public opinion favours NATO membership, Kalin said, “If they [Finland and Sweden] have a public concerned about their own national security, we have a public that is equally concerned about our own security,” he said.

Kalin said Russia’s sharp criticism of Finland and Sweden for their plans to join NATO was not a factor in Turkey’s position.

(...)

Thanks! I was also reading it may be this stuff plus a play to get some military equipment Turkey has wanted from the US. World politics are never just about the obvious, always back door dealings involved, AJMO
 

Sundog

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Agree, many news sources indicate that Erdogan will negotiate for military equipment he has been wanting from the U.S. for some time -- as well as the return of 33 or so terrorists to Turkey that have been identified as belonging to terrorist groups that are recognized as such by Turkey, the U.S., and I think also by the E.U.

 

Sundog

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More on the issues that are likely impacting Turkey's negotiations regarding their vote on Finland and Sweden joining NATO.


Another critical element is lingering tensions between Turkey and the U.S. over fighter jet purchases.

For years, Ankara was a reliable customer for U.S. defense companies, buying up scores of F-16 fighter jets. Turkey later turned to the more advanced F-35s as those began to roll out.

But the relationship ruptured in 2019 when Turkey purchased the Russian-made S-400 missile system — a move the U.S. said would put NATO aircraft flying over Turkey at risk. In response, the U.S. kicked Ankara out of the F-35 program and slapped sanctions on the Turkish defense industry.

After that spat, Turkey began toying with the idea of buying Russian fighter jets and even developing its own program. However, it is also seeking to both upgrade its F-16 fleet and purchase new F-16 planes. The request has been pending for months with the Biden administration and U.S. Congress.

“That price might well be that the Americans lift their block on F-16s,” De Hoop Scheffer said.

The U.S. seems inclined to pay that price. The U.S. State Department has tentatively supported Turkey’s request, which is now being considered by the White House and Congress.

The matter was one of the open questions surrounding a meeting in New York on Wednesday between U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu.

Çavuşoğlu hinted that NATO members could be part of the solution to the impasse. Speaking alongside Blinken, Çavuşoğlu stressed that he understood Finland and Sweden’s security concerns, “but Turkey’s security concerns should be also met. And this is also one of — one issue that we should continue discussing with friends and allies, including United States.”

That issue may include the F-16s. In separate comments published in Turkish media that day, the Turkish foreign minister underscored that talks about the potential sale are “going on positively.”

In Helsinki, there is also a sense that Turkey’s hold may be linked to its current tussle with the U.S.

“Finland has a good relationship with Turkey and we share the objective to fight against terrorism,” said one senior Finnish official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “I don’t think our bilateral relations are any problem. This is possibly about Turkey’s issues with the U.S.”

But it’s still about Kurdish groups

Some analysts insist, however, that the Finnish and Swedish approach to the PKK remains key for Turkey’s government.

“We can’t solve this problem” by simply smoothing out the Washington-Ankara relationship, said Sinan Ülgen, a former Turkish diplomat who is now a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Europe think tank.

It might help speed the process, he added, but “there’s no way to escape” addressing Sweden and Finland’s policies on Kurdish groups.

The negotiation with Sweden is expected to be tougher than with Finland, according to Ülgen.

“There are bigger expectations from Sweden,” he said, referring to what he described as Stockholm’s “more lenient approach to the activities of what Turkey considers to be a terrorist organization, the PKK, and its offshoots.”

The Swedish government “will have to demonstrate that it has changed its outlook on this,” he said.

Swedish and Finnish officials have said that they are open to dialogue with Turkey. And senior figures from across the alliance have insisted a consensus on Helsinki and Stockholm’s accession will be found.
 

dotr

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''Worldwide sanctions in response to Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine have caused serious logistical problems in Russia, transport minister Vitaly Savelyev has said.

Russia’s supply chains are at risk of collapse, the former Aeroflot CEO has suggested, as a result of harsh economic sanctions imposed by many countries in the West.''

''Russia preparing to resume attacks around Izium - official says​

Russian troops are preparing to resume attacks in the area around Izium, the administrative head of the Kharkiv region said.
The last battle in Izium lasted four weeks until 1 April, when the Ukrainian military confirmed Izium was under Russian control. Local authorities reported that 80 per cent of buildings had been destroyed.
Today – Oleg Sinegubov said on Telegram: “In the Izium region, the Russian occupiers are preparing to resume the offensive and are shelling the areas of the villages of Virnopillia, Dibrivne, and Dovgenke.
“But our Armed Forces of Ukraine are holding their positions and are not allowing the aggressors to advance.''

''LONDON — Russia said on Saturday it had so far banned 963 Americans from entering the country – including previously announced moves against President Joe Biden and other top officials – and would continue to retaliate against what it called hostile U.S. actions.''

''Separately, the Foreign Ministry said it had added 26 new names to a list of Canadians it has barred from travelling to Russia, including defence chiefs, defence industry executives and Sophie Gregoire Trudeau, the wife of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.''

In response to sanctions, Russia had already banned Justin Trudeau, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland and hundreds of other Canadians from entering the country.''
 

worldwatcher

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Yamal pipeline was shut down by Gazprom on May 12.
Poland needs to bargain ? Not sure what this about..?
Thought they had enough in stuck, imo


 

CSIDreamer

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dotr

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''RUSSIAN commanders are said to be slaughtering their own wounded soldiers rather than getting them off the battlefield for treatment. One lieutenant-colonel was accused by captured Russian soldiers of personally shooting dead several of his men as they lay injured. The commander asked one soldier if he could walk and when the man replied he could not, the officer killed him. The chilling account comes from army intelligence troops captured by the Ukrainians.''

They should have removed the mirrors from the room first, imo

''VLADIMIR Putin has appeared to retch and splutter throughout his meeting as he met with a close ally and defence aide. The Russian president's face appeared bloated as he gripped the table in front of him during talks with Sergey Chemezov, head of state-owned defence giant Rostec. Putin, 69, sat opposite Chemezov, whom he has known since they were both in the KGB in the 1980s, staring ahead with dull eyes. He seemed to retch several times and struggle to speak throughout the clip released by Russian state TV. It is the latest appearance by Putin to spark speculation about his health since the start of the war in Ukraine. ''
 

Arkay

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Very bold and courageous of him, IMO.

I certainly hope he isn't poisoned somewhere along the way.
 

sunshineray

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I hope this man stays safe.


“Putin has become both a war criminal and a dictator,” Boris Bondarev, 41, who was involved in disarmarment work at the mission, said in a phone interview Monday. “I can’t work with colleagues who seriously talk about launching nuclear strikes on the suburbs of Washington to scare the Americans into surrendering. These conversations have become more and more frequent.”


 

sunshineray

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''RUSSIAN commanders are said to be slaughtering their own wounded soldiers rather than getting them off the battlefield for treatment. One lieutenant-colonel was accused by captured Russian soldiers of personally shooting dead several of his men as they lay injured. The commander asked one soldier if he could walk and when the man replied he could not, the officer killed him. The chilling account comes from army intelligence troops captured by the Ukrainians.''

They should have removed the mirrors from the room first, imo

''VLADIMIR Putin has appeared to retch and splutter throughout his meeting as he met with a close ally and defence aide. The Russian president's face appeared bloated as he gripped the table in front of him during talks with Sergey Chemezov, head of state-owned defence giant Rostec. Putin, 69, sat opposite Chemezov, whom he has known since they were both in the KGB in the 1980s, staring ahead with dull eyes. He seemed to retch several times and struggle to speak throughout the clip released by Russian state TV. It is the latest appearance by Putin to spark speculation about his health since the start of the war in Ukraine. ''
Watching that video I got the feeling that Putin may not be totally in charge. He looks almost demure with the other man. I wonder if he had to make some deals to stay alive?

 
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