SC - Kayden John Stuber, 2, Dead after Finding Gun in Grandmother's Purse. Greenville. 20 June 2019

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by PastTense, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. PastTense

    PastTense Well-Known Member

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    "Kayden and Bekki Gunter had just returned home Thursday afternoon when she put her purse on her bed and went into the bathroom, Tim Gunter said.

    Inside her purse was a teal-colored Glock pistol. Within seconds, Kayden managed to unzip the purse, pull the weapon from a holster within the purse and pull the trigger, Tim Gunter said.

    The child shot himself in the face, according to Senior Deputy Coroner Kent Dill. Despite attempts by a family member to stop the bleeding, Kayden died.

    "Nobody understands the situation. We're probably one of the safest families around as far as weapons," Tim Gunter told The Greenville News less than 24 hours after the shooting."

    Family gripped with grief over shooting death of toddler: 'It was an accident'
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Reasonable & Just

    Reasonable & Just United We Stand

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    No doubt it was an accident. But a zipper doesn't really mean that purse left lying on a bed is "sealed" and secure from a toddler who knows there's something interesting inside (and pretty - teal color is appealing and almost toy-like). I feel badly for this family. No doubt they take responsibility in private, if not in their words to the press. I wonder if it's feasible to include a manual safety on these pistols - I don't know enough about them to say.

    Glock does not include a manual safety feature in its pistols but rather a safety mechanism on the trigger itself, according to the company website. The intent of the safety feature is to prevent accidental discharges if dropped, the website states. Tim Gunter believes if a manual safety button was used, it may have prevented the shooting.

    "If that had a safety and he squeezed it, nothing would have ever happened," he said. "This wasn't a careless thing. This was definitely an accident."
     
  3. Peppery

    Peppery Well-Known Member

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    How in the world can a two year old pull a trigger??? While it’s aimed at his face?
     
  4. Reasonable & Just

    Reasonable & Just United We Stand

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    It happens, though. Can't find links right now, but there have been quite a few shootings by toddlers. It's depressing. That sweet little face. That family - how do you all move forward after this? Imagine grandma and granddad, having to explain this to the poor baby's mom.
     
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  5. Reasonable & Just

    Reasonable & Just United We Stand

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    I just read granddad's regrets about the toy-like teal color and that he blames himself for that, while grandma blames herself for all of it :( This has got to be the worst agony for all of them. I wonder if the concealed weapon just becomes another item in the purse (or other bag or glove compartment or wherever) over time, and you kinda forget about it and don't secure it as well as you should 24/7, vs an on-body holster. I worry that I would be very careless if I had one in my purse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  6. musicaljoke

    musicaljoke Well-Known Member

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    I was just reading about a woman in the UK who was arrested for carrying a knife in her purse. And then I read this thread where the death of a two year old is considered an accident.

    Will this grandmother be arrested for leaving a loaded gun where her grandchild could access it? How can this be considered an accident when the outcome is so predictable?

    Will the only punishment be that she lost a grandchild? Frankly, I'd rather go to prison than lose a grandchild. I'm glad for the gun control laws that we have in Canada.
     
  7. PastTense

    PastTense Well-Known Member

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    Well:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/

    Yes I think she could be charged. But my guess is that being a respectable, middle class grandmother law enforcement will consider the loss of the grandchild punishment enough, but that if the person had been someone with a criminal history then law enforcement would pursue criminal charges.
     
  8. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    From the link in post #1 -

    Kayden and BG had just returned home Thursday afternoon when she put her purse on her bed and went into the bathroom, TG said.

    Inside her purse was a teal-colored Glock pistol.

    Within seconds, Kayden managed to unzip the purse, pull the weapon from a holster within the purse and pull the trigger, TG said.
    ...
    "Nobody understands the situation. We're probably one of the safest families around as far as weapons," TG told The Greenville News less than 24 hours after the shooting.

    TG said both he and BG are concealed weapon permit holders and trained in firearms safety.
    ...
    "It was in her purse, zipped and sealed. You would never think he'd be smart enough, but he actually is."
    ...
    He was a typical 2-year-old boy, picking up new words, mimicking family members, laughing, running and exploring, and his inquisitive spirit got the best of him, TG said.

    "He was a ham. He loved to get into stuff," TG said. "He's getting into all kinds of different stuff. You could go in here and in five minutes glitter could be all over the place."


    Family gripped with grief over shooting death of toddler: 'It was an accident'


    The best and most concise explanation of why this happens day after day after day imo.
     
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  9. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    From the MSM article, Tim Gunter said --
    "If that had a safety and he squeezed it, nothing would have ever happened," he said. "This wasn't a careless thing. This was definitely an accident."
    Family gripped with grief over shooting death of toddler: 'It was an accident'

    I don't understand that statement. Why isn't there some kind of preventive mechanism on that weapon? Why was the purse just tossed on the bed? Certainly it was an accident, but IMO, it was also very careless. A loaded pistol on a bed -- a color that could be perceived as a toy, it was easily within reach, and a zipper was apparently the only safeguard.
    I have a 2 y/o granddaughter -- she knows all about buttons and zippers. Oh, what a tragedy.
     
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  10. musicaljoke

    musicaljoke Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Blame the two year old. The child loved getting into stuff! And his natural curiosity just "got the best of him". Yeah, it surely did get the best of him. He shot himself in the face with Gramma's gun. She knew all about how he could get into things in just five minutes. She was the safest person around as far as guns go.

    What a dismal situation.
     
  11. doublestop

    doublestop Well-Known Member

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    Negligence, not accident.
     
  12. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    what happens with children is they pick up a handgun, they can't pull the trigger like normal. They turn the gun around, barrel pointed at their face, grip with both hands and use their thumbs. Bang! Its usually more of a concern with having a revolver around children. Normally, with a semi-auto this wouldn't be a problem, but this woman kept her Glock, not only loaded, but with a round actually in the chamber!!!!!! That is insane and an accident waiting to happen.

    To answer a previous question, yes, it is feasible to have a manual safety on these firearms. Most semi-auto handguns do. But a safety only works if it is engaged and something tells me this woman wouldn't have her gun on "safe."
     
  13. Moxie Vi

    Moxie Vi Member Extraordinaire

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    I agree with the opinion that this is negligence and not an accident. My husband has 2 handguns that he carries as his concealed. One is a glock, one is a Smith & Wesson. Glock doesn't make a gun with a traditional safety... a little switch that has to be flipped for the trigger to be pulled. I'm sure an aftermarket one could be installed but most people are focused on sights and performance, not safeties at that point. The Smith and Wesson we own has a safety as well as an indicator so that we can visually see if a bullet is in the chamber.

    We don't have children and are very rarely around children. When we are the gun is locked up, under lock and key.

    If they are truly as educated on gun safety as they claim then it doesn't help them in my eyes. It is just proof that they didn't maintain a standard of care and a level of safety that is an absolute must if one chooses to risk carrying a weapon of any sort. If the grandma had to use the restroom that bad then the handbag with firearm should have gone with her.

    It is unfortunate. It is sad. It is a lot of things. A tragic accident? I can't believe that. I'm sure this family will suffer. I don't know what it will take for the next gun-in-the-purse caretaker to be overly cautious. I doubt that the threat of criminal charges will deter if the loss of life isn't deterrent enough.
     
  14. AzPistonsGirl

    AzPistonsGirl Detroit to the Bone

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    "Nobody understands the situation. We're probably one of the safest families around as far as weapons," TG told The Greenville News less than 24 hours after the shooting.

    Ummm, no. No, you are not. NO YOU ARE NOT. Period.

    No one understands the situation? Really? what could ANYONE possibly say to help anyone understand this happening over and over again?
     
  15. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    I like your paragraph on the safety aspect. It brings up a question for me that I have never seen anyone write about - if anyone can share their knowledge or experience it would be appreciated.

    It seems many people take their guns shopping, on a picnic etc - what do the gun safety courses say should be done as soon as one gets home? Is that covered in the safety courses, or only how one should carry their guns when they are outside of their home?

    Your last line is especially true imo. Thank-you for making that point.
     
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  16. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you say in this post.

    I wouldn't leave a loaded gun where a child can get to it even if it has a manual safety that is engaged. It would be very easy for a child to move the safety to the fire position while handling the gun. JMO
     
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  17. SoCalDavidS

    SoCalDavidS Well-Known Member

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    This is NRAmerica, so these kind of incidents are to be expected. Gun & 2nd Amendment lovers will take these deaths, as part of the cost to have a free society where a person can be free to carry a cute colored gun however they want. Oh gee, I forgot I left a loaded gun in my purse on the bed. That boy, always getting into stuff. They act like it’s a candy bar their kid got a hold of without permission. And so it goes. I don’t expect anything to change in my lifetime, and stories like this will continue unabated. Resistance is futile.
     
  18. Moxie Vi

    Moxie Vi Member Extraordinaire

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    My husband is big into guns and gun culture. I am not. I did take a concealed carry course with him and have my permit. It was eye opening. We were taught that if one carries a gun outside the home then it is useless if it doesn't have one in the chamber at all times. As a matter of fact, my husband will rarely keep one in the chamber and is often put down and mocked for this. He only carries his guns fully loaded and ready to discharge when he is working in a high crime area. Most everyone else we know always has a bullet chambered, even at home. Statistics speak strongly but we are aware that some risk is everywhere. I don't want to become a player in a preventable "accident".

    In the classes that we took and books I have read they stress having a touch entry safe for guns in a home. It takes a millisecond (per ads) to unlock and will only unlock to assigned fingerprints. The other solutions are traditional gun safes, ALWAYS having the gun on you (although the feasibility in this is weak), or keeping the gun and magazine separate. With us it is easy, if kids are around the gun is not taken or is locked away under key. Not having kids we are very conscious of the issue. I could see how one could grow lax in their safeguards even with something as deadly as a gun.
     
  19. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    Thank-you - it seems most of the negligence occurs in the home after returning from an outing where a loaded gun has been carried by a family member. Leaving a loaded gun in a vehicle seems to be another area of negligence.

    Imo, melting ice-cream, cranky/crying/hungry kids or needing to use the washroom becomes the priority over safely storing a loaded gun. People go on and on about their right to carry a gun, but safely storing it when they get home, over everything else they need to do, never seems to come up much.
     
  20. sleepysleuth

    sleepysleuth Active Member

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    “We're probably one of the safest families around as far as weapons”

    That’s the problem. Every gun owner I know claims to be the safest around, and yet these things continue to happen. This poor child paid the ultimate price due to the irresponsible gun owner’s outright negligence and as far as I am concerned, she should be charged with his death.
     

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