SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston; Dylann Roof charged #2

[katydid23]

Where was it said that DDW killed Savopoulos family because they were white? You seem to be implying that it should be a hate crime. Why? Because he was black, and his victims weren't? I am not seeing how it is similiar at all to this case, where the killer wrote a manifesto with his racist motives, told the victims he was killing them because they were taking over and raping women, etc.

What in the world does DDW have to do with this crime.

We were talking about showing compassion for the family of a killer. And the most recent example of that is the DW case. So that is why I brought it up. I think it is an example of where we here showed compassion for the killers family and saw them as victims too.

As for a manifesto---one can be a racist without putting a manifesto online. I have no idea how DW felt about the family he was torturing and killing. But I have to assume he hated them. You disagree?

 

[mysteriew]

There was nothing outrageous in his manifesto. These are comments I constantly see posted on the Internet, on mainstream websites. The obsession with "black on white" crime is a big one. His views are accepted by a large percentage of Americans.

What percentage of Americans accept his views? Where can I find those numbers?

 

[KaaBoom]

One thing that disturbs me in the coverage of this case is how quickly it is being turned into a gun debate. IMO this kid would have done this. If he couldn't get a gun he would have built a pipe bomb. No one is really looking at what I really believe is the cause. Not only for these murders, but many more. Drugs. How many times when we see a horrific crime do we see so called "hard" drugs involved? But that doesn't fit in with the current agenda and they really don't know how to resolve the problem so it just isn't discussed.

There is no evidence that he was under the influence of drugs at the time of the shooting. There is evidence that he was in possession of a firearm and used it to commit the crime. Even if he was under the influence of drugs, that would be a contributing factor. But the real cause is the fact that guns are as easy to buy as candy in this country.

Blaming drugs, or violent video games, or lack of mental health services, is just part of the smoke screen in this country to neutralize the gun control debate, by deflecting attention away from the real problem, so the problem can never get fixed. A person can be mentally ill, use the most dangerous drugs, watch violent video games all day, but if he can't get a gun, he can't shoot anybody.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This is an unusual high-profile case because black people are not being portrayed as criminals, or as victims who were actually criminals and deserved what they got (Trayvon, any victim of police bruality). Some are not taking this well. I can't even think of a similiar case--where a black person was killed, it got national coverage, and no one blamed the victim? My mind is going blank.

 

[mysteriew]

There is no evidence that he was under the influence of drugs at the time of the shooting. There is evidence that he was in possession of a firearm and used it to commit the crime. Even if he was under the influence of drugs, that would be a contributing factor. But the real cause is the fact that guns are as easy to buy as candy in this country.

Blaming drugs, or violent video games, or lack of mental health services, is just part of the smoke screen in this country to neutralize the gun control debate, by deflecting attention away from the real problem, so the problem never gets fixed. A person can be mentally ill, use the most dangerous drugs, watch violent video games all day, but if he can't get a gun, he can't shoot anybody.

There is no evidence thatt McVeigh used a gun. Should we outlaw trucks and fertilizer? No gun was used during the Boston bombings (that came later) Should we outlaw pressure cookers? And while guns were used at Columbine, there were also pipe bombs. Should we also outlaw pipes?

 

[starviego]

HE CONFESSED already. He said he did it.

Wrongamundo! Someone else SAID he confessed. There is a difference.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There is no evidence thatt McVeigh used a gun. Should we outlaw trucks and fertilizer? No gun was used during the Boston bombings (that came later) Should we outlaw pressure cookers? And while guns were used at Columbine, there were also pipe bombs. Should we also outlaw pipes?

In Columbine, the pipe bombs did not denonate, showing that they are not as reliable as a gun. Nobody was killed by a pipe bomb.
Trucks and fertilizer have other uses besides blowing up buildings.
The number of Americans killed by guns every year is significantly higher than the number of Americans killed by bombs. It's pretty clear that guns are much more easily attainable and easier to use than blowing up an area with a bomb.

I am not seeing how pipes, trucks, and fertiziler are similiar at all to guns.

 

[Montjoy]

This is an unusual high-profile case because black people are not being portrayed as criminals, or as victims who were actually criminals and deserved what they got (Trayvon, any victim of police bruality). Some are not taking this well. I can't even think of a similiar case--where a black person was killed, it got national coverage, and no one blamed the victim? My mind is going blank.

Actually, some people are blaming the victims --

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/19/nra-mass-shootings-south-carolina-church
http://news.sky.com/story/1505619/nra-exec-blames-pastor-for-charleston-shooting

And I hate to say, but I think I've seen a post or two here expressing a similar argument, albeit less indelicately.

 

[human]

There is no evidence that he was under the influence of drugs at the time of the shooting. There is evidence that he was in possession of a firearm and used it to commit the crime. Even if he was under the influence of drugs, that would be a contributing factor. But the real cause is the fact that guns are as easy to buy as candy in this country.

Blaming drugs, or violent video games, or lack of mental health services, is just part of the smoke screen in this country to neutralize the gun control debate, by deflecting attention away from the real problem, so the problem can never get fixed. A person can be mentally ill, use the most dangerous drugs, watch violent video games all day, but if he can't get a gun, he can't shoot anybody.

Yup.,Young adults in Europe, Australia, New Zealand ,,Japan have access to violent video games, psychotropic drugs, illegal drugs, have broken families, unemployment. What they don't have are...............

 

[mysteriew]

In Columbine, the pipe bombs did not denonate, showing that they are not as reliable as a gun. Nobody was killed by a pipe bomb.
Trucks and fertilizer have other uses besides blowing up buildings.
The number of Americans killed by guns every year is significantly higher than the number of Americans killed by bombs. It's pretty clear that guns are much more easily attainable and easier to use than blowing up an area with a bomb.

I am not seeing how pipes, trucks, and fertiziler are similiar at all to guns.

If guns are not available they will turn to bombs and IUD's as they have done in other places. And in some cases the materials are easier to find than guns. They just take more work.

 

[KaaBoom]

(Emphasis added.) I believe that is SOUTH Carolina. Note the palmetto tree on the state flag. SC is the "Palmettio State".

Thanks. I din't know why I typed North Carolina.

 

[mysteriew]

Yup.,Young adults in Europe, Australia, New Zealand ,,Japan have access to violent video games, psychotropic drugs, illegal drugs, have broken families, unemployment. What they don't have are...............

Ummm........ you might want to do a google search on that. Just a quick search shows news reports for bomb threats or bombings in most of those. We look like we have more because once they happen theyare talked about endlessly in media. And since more details are given out in broadcasts it looks like we are worse. s

 

[asac]

Ummm........ you might want to do a google search on that. Just a quick search shows news reports for bomb threats or bombings in most of those. We look like we have more because once they happen theyare talked about endlessly in media. And since more details are given out in broadcasts it looks like we are worse. s

What bombings are you talking about?

 

[katydid23]

This is an unusual high-profile case because black people are not being portrayed as criminals, or as victims who were actually criminals and deserved what they got (Trayvon, any victim of police bruality). Some are not taking this well. I can't even think of a similiar case--where a black person was killed, it got national coverage, and no one blamed the victim? My mind is going blank.

A black police officer was killed today in NOLA and I have not seen anyone blaming him.

 

[katydid23]

Wrongamundo! Someone else SAID he confessed. There is a difference.

There will be a video of his confession.

 

[Wagara]

Then I'm sure you've heard the judge's decade-old statement before. I don't know that it was necessary to distinguish between white and black or urban and rural (when the point seems to be been upstanding v. criminal), but I think it's at least possible the judge/magistrate was just using a folksy colloquialism he and I have both heard before (though when I've heard it, some synonym was used in place of the n-word).

Still a bad choice of words, I agree. But removing him from the case AFTER his duties are mostly completed strikes me as silly. I guess South Carolina knows it has an ongoing p.r. problem and is reluctant to add fuel to the fire.

IMO SC is getting a bum rap over this shooting. As horrible as the tragedy is there have been no riots. Instead the flag and gun loving people of SC, of all races, have united to support each other. I will take SC's PR problems over those of Ferguson and Baltimore any day of the week

 

[KaaBoom]

I am flabbergasted.


He opened the court with his appeal to support Roof's family, adding: 'Nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they are being thrown into.
'We must find it in our heart at some point in time not only to help those that are victims but to also help his family as well.'
He then charged Roof, whose grandfather C Joseph Roof is a prominent lawyer in North Carolina, with nine counts of murder.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...imanded-using-n-word-court.html#ixzz3deUDhLji

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Yes, the poor white people in South Carolina are suffering so much from this. Those are the people we should be concerned with, not the black victims of this hate crime. Of course they are not suffering so much that they are going to take down their racist Confederate flag from the State Capital, but they are suffering.

Lets reverse it around, and say that a black kid killed nine white people. First, he would be dead. The cops would make sure of that, but if by some chance he survived all the police bullets, what are the chances this same judge would be talking about how we need to be sympathetic to his family? None, because black kids are all "****s" anyway.

 

[Wagara]

Actually, some people are blaming the victims --

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/19/nra-mass-shootings-south-carolina-church
http://news.sky.com/story/1505619/nra-exec-blames-pastor-for-charleston-shooting

And I hate to say, but I think I've seen a post or two here expressing a similar argument, albeit less indelicately.

I wondered how long it would take before the NRA took this stance.

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...-high-school-leads-teens-arrest/#.VYY4gmYpC2d

http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/68419705/Teens-explosives-meant-for-Melbourne-bombing

What bombings are you talking about?

 

[katydid23]

Yes, the poor white people in South Carolina are suffering so much from this. Those are the people we should be concerned with, not the black victims of this hate crime. Of course they are not suffering so much that they are going to take down their racist Confederate flag from the State Capital, but they are suffering.

Lets reverse it around, and say that a black kid killed nine white people. First, he would be dead. The cops would make sure of that, but if by some chance he survived all the police bullets, what are the chances this same judge would be talking about how we need to be sympathetic to his family? None, because black kids are all "****s" anyway.

Let's take a real life example. Darron Wint, a black man, just killed four white people. Actually he tortured them, brutally, for 2 days. He set a 10 yr old boy on fire while he was still alive. Did the cops shoot him when he was captured? NO. They did not kill him upon his arrest.

Did the public harass his family? NO. His father made a very lovely and compassionate public statement and it was warmly accepted. I have not seen anyone say anything bad about his father at all.

I think you are painting with a very broad brush and jumping to false conclusions. JMO


ETA:


As first reported by The Washington Post, Dennis Wint says his family and friends grieve the 'tragic and senseless loss' but they didn't know the victims.
He also says 'we hope that whoever committed these heinous crimes - my son included - will suffer the consequences of their actions.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ces-heartless-crime-guilty.html#ixzz3dfOux8e9
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