GUILTY SC - Shooting reported at Townville Elementary, Jacob Hall, 6, killed, Sept 2016

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The call from JO to his grandmother, and the first call to 911 from the school, were only a minute, or even less than a minute apart. So JO called from the school, and not his home. And there were merely *seconds* between that call (at 1:44 pm), and when he began shooting.

It would have taken a few seconds for the teacher who called 911, at 1:45 pm, to realize what was going on, get her phone out, and make the call, which came in only a minute (or less) after his call to his grandmother.

He was apprehended within 15 min-- at 2:00.

Another interesting detail is that he was seen firing "into the air"-- and I wonder if that means "up" toward the sky. I'm wondering what caliber the gun was? Was it a particularly heavy gun, or large caliber, hard for him to control the barrel rise, and he was firing "up" as the barrel rose from the initial shots? Was he firing one handed? (Very hard to control.) Holding the cell phone? Or was he aiming up at the sky? Was this before, or after he shot the teacher and students? (Most, if not all, weapons tend to recoil back and up before the shooter brings the barrel back down to fire again.)

A minute before a teen allegedly opened fire at an elementary school playground in South Carolina, he called his grandparents' cell phone, sobbing and mumbling unintelligibly, authorities say.

It was 1:44 p.m. local time.

His grandparents could barely hear the 14-year-old because of his crying, CNN affiliate WYFF-TV in Greenville reported. So they headed next door, where he lived, to check on him.
But instead the grandparents found their son -- the teen's father -- dead in the home.

At about 1:45 p.m. Wednesday, a teacher called 911 to report a shooting at the playground behind nearby Townville Elementary School.
Click to expand...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us/south-carolina-elementary-school-shooting/

An 8-year-old witness told WSPA’s Addie Hampton that they saw the gunman shooting into the air in the school’s playground. While doing so, the witness says that the suspect was shouting “I hate my life” repeatedly.

Anderson County Deputy Chief Keith Smith told the media that the shooter never got to the school. He was apprehended around 2 p.m., around 15 minutes after the initial call.

The coroner says that the suspect called his grandmother prior to the 911 call going in. While Sheriff John Skipper said that the gunman was crying when he made the call. After that, his grandmother went to the Osborne’s home where she found her son, Jeffrey Osborne, dead. The suspect is accused of taking his father’s pickup truck to Townville elementary.
Click to expand...

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/jesse...ting-suspect-meghan-hollingsworth-jacob-hall/

BBM
 
katydid23 said:
I agree.

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here because I have seen a few cases where the young killer shot up random people---and he was not abused by his family, but was in fact, coddled and spoiled by them/

Adam Lanza, and also two of the Santa Barbara mass shooters, were entitled, spoiled rich kids, who were never abused by family--only by their peers.
Click to expand...

Elliot Rodger comes off as very entitled as shown in his video and manifesto. In his own manifesto, he admits to harassing people.

There is no doubt that Adam Lanza has an extreme sense of entitlement. He could not handle life's failure as it made him more resentful.

Lanza and Rodger are consumed by extreme resentment as they are injustice collectors.

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

Elliot Rodger and Adam Lanza show all 7 characteristics of injustice collectors. This applies with Seung-Hui Cho, Omar Mateen, Dylann Roof, Eric Harris, Charles Whitman, 9/11 Terrorists, and Islamic Terrorists. This also applies with non-mass murderers like Jodi Arias, Patsy Ramsey, Betty Broderick, and Lori Drew.

Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

Elliot Rodger shows all 20. Same goes with Adam Lanza.
 
Authorities say a teacher called 911 about a shooter at Townville Elementary about a minute after the teen called his grandmother.

http://www.kmov.com/story/33271957/the-latest-grandparents-of-school-shooter-found-father-dead
 
HMSHood said:
Elliot Rodger comes off as very entitled as shown in his video and manifesto. In his own manifesto, he admits to harassing people.

There is no doubt that Adam Lanza has an extreme sense of entitlement. He could not handle life's failure as it made him more resentful.

Lanza and Rodger are consumed by extreme resentment as they are injustice collectors.

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

Elliot Rodger and Adam Lanza show all 7 characteristics of injustice collectors. This applies with Seung-Hui Cho, Omar Mateen, Dylann Roof, Eric Harris, Charles Whitman, 9/11 Terrorists, and Islamic Terrorists. This also applies with non-mass murderers like Jodi Arias, Patsy Ramsey, Betty Broderick, and Lori Drew.

Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

Elliot Rodger shows all 20. Same goes with Adam Lanza.
Click to expand...

AGree Elliot - IMO Lanza was to sick and disabled to have that kind of congitive functioning IMO
 
There is an alternative school in Anderson District 5, but I am not sure if students from other district may attend it. If there are alternative schools in the other Anderson County school districts I wasn't aware of them before I moved away 6 years ago. So that may not have been an option, imho.

As far as services for his issues, I haven't had a lot of time since Saturday to check sources or sleuth, and I've run into his aunt via work from time to time in the past but nothing I've seen or heard so far has indicated one way or the other.

I am still working my way through the thread, but when I looked at the map from the Osborne farm to Townville Elementary, I noticed there isn't anything but other farms, and maybe a storage facility (can't remember what's out there and those types of buildings look similar on satellite). I've wondered if whatever happened at home happened and then he freaked out and ran. The first populated place it looks like he would have come to was the school. So maybe the school wasn't a target but just the first thing he saw?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
This is what the Alternative School website says for District 5:

The Anderson County Alternative School is a public school program operated by a Board of Trustees that is comprised of representatives from all 5 Anderson County School Districts, a member of the County Board, and an "at-large" member from the Solicitor's Office.
Our school is for students in grades 6-12 that have been referred to us from Anderson County schools or through the court system. Specific enrollment criteria must be met prior to enrollment.


Our school has been in operation since 1996 and is a successful model for other alternative schools across our state.

We are the only alternative school to offer a boot camp format and one of the only alternative schools to serve expelled students.

Our school serves 20 schools across the county.
Click to expand...

http://www.anderson5.alternative.schoolfusion.us/

It seems like he surely would have been eligible, and I have to think that this was presented as an option to his parents when he was expelled for the hatchet incident. But for whatever their reasons, they chose not to participate in this option. I don't think we will ever hear all of the details on that, because I'm doubting he will ever stand trial. I think he will be waived up to adult court, and then he will plead and be sentenced.

I do think that this alternative school would have been a good place for him-- a place he could have had supervision and counseling, referrals for services, etc. Many eyes to observe him over time. But perhaps that was also the "problem" as to why his parents didn't allow him to go there after the expulsion. A "bootcamp" environment is very strict, with clear expectations, and consequences follow non-compliant actions-- maybe his parents didn't want to "subject" him to that kind of tough love. Or maybe they didn't want him around the kind of kids that go to those schools (juvenile delinquents), thinking he would be bullied even more. Or maybe they thought that bringing him home and isolating him would solve the problems he had, and they would figure out how to do the homeschool thing. Who knows.

Personally, I think there was little to no "homeschool" going on for him. I think it was a convenient excuse to allow them to avoid the alternative school. I'm certain the alternative school was presented as an option, since public schools cannot simply expell students-- they are bound by law to provide for the student's continued education.

It's extremely easy to "fake" the homeschool thing, if someone wants to go down that path. In our area, it's not unheard of for some very low income families to claim they are "homeschooling" a 14 year old at the end of 8th grade, for example, with the plan to officially drop out as soon as the teen turns 16 (state law). It takes more than a year for social services to discover and investigate these educational neglect situations, if the family isn't already in the social services system. They get lost between 8th grade and the move up to high school, poor families move a lot, etc. It's very sad. My daughter was friends with a girl whose family did this, ending her education at 8th grade. They literally talked her into dropping out after 8th grade. She worked fast food for a year until she got pregnant, and by the time she was 15, she was too old for the system to bother going after her or her parents for educational neglect. For these very low income families, no one has graduated high school in their immediate or extended families, so it isn't a value or priority. They just plan to circumvent the system, so the teen can work instead of going to school, which they see as a waste of time. The end of 8th grade is the "perfect" time to drop off the radar. That young girl wanted to join the Navy when she was in 7th grade. Now hers is a life wasted, IMO, and another generation of poverty in her family. Very sad, and frustrating, IMO. I did what I could to try to keep her in school, but it wasn't enough. I'm going to be sad about that for a very long time. Anyway, my point is that it's very easy to "claim" to be homeschooling, when you're not.
 
tulips0312 said:
There is an alternative school in Anderson District 5, but I am not sure if students from other district may attend it. If there are alternative schools in the other Anderson County school districts I wasn't aware of them before I moved away 6 years ago. So that may not have been an option, imho.

As far as services for his issues, I haven't had a lot of time since Saturday to check sources or sleuth, and I've run into his aunt via work from time to time in the past but nothing I've seen or heard so far has indicated one way or the other.

I am still working my way through the thread, but when I looked at the map from the Osborne farm to Townville Elementary, I noticed there isn't anything but other farms, and maybe a storage facility (can't remember what's out there and those types of buildings look similar on satellite). I've wondered if whatever happened at home happened and then he freaked out and ran. The first populated place it looks like he would have come to was the school. So maybe the school wasn't a target but just the first thing he saw?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

i agree I think the main focus was the father who was hurting him or his mother or both. Then while enraged "I might as well go the kids that hurt me at school as well"

That kind of thing moo
 
He had no association with that school though, did he?
 
K_Z said:
This is what the Alternative School website says for District 5:



http://www.anderson5.alternative.schoolfusion.us/

It seems like he surely would have been eligible, and I have to think that this was presented as an option to his parents when he was expelled for the hatchet incident. But for whatever their reasons, they chose not to participate in this option. I don't think we will ever hear all of the details on that, because I'm doubting he will ever stand trial. I think he will be waived up to adult court, and then he will plead and be sentenced.

I do think that this alternative school would have been a good place for him-- a place he could have had supervision and counseling, referrals for services, etc. Many eyes to observe him over time. But perhaps that was also the "problem" as to why his parents didn't allow him to go there after the expulsion. A "bootcamp" environment is very strict, with clear expectations, and consequences follow non-compliant actions-- maybe his parents didn't want to "subject" him to that kind of tough love. Or maybe they didn't want him around the kind of kids that go to those schools (juvenile delinquents), thinking he would be bullied even more. Or maybe they thought that bringing him home and isolating him would solve the problems he had, and they would figure out how to do the homeschool thing. Who knows.

Personally, I think there was little to no "homeschool" going on for him. I think it was a convenient excuse to allow them to avoid the alternative school. I'm certain the alternative school was presented as an option, since public schools cannot simply expell students-- they are bound by law to provide for the student's continued education.

It's extremely easy to "fake" the homeschool thing, if someone wants to go down that path. In our area, it's not unheard of for some very low income families to claim they are "homeschooling" a 14 year old at the end of 8th grade, for example, with the plan to officially drop out as soon as the teen turns 16 (state law). It takes more than a year for social services to discover and investigate these educational neglect situations, if the family isn't already in the social services system. They get lost between 8th grade and the move up to high school, poor families move a lot, etc. It's very sad. My daughter was friends with a girl whose family did this, ending her education at 8th grade. They literally talked her into dropping out after 8th grade. She worked fast food for a year until she got pregnant, and by the time she was 15, she was too old for the system to bother going after her or her parents for educational neglect. For these very low income families, no one has graduated high school in their immediate or extended families, so it isn't a value or priority. They just plan to circumvent the system, so the teen can work instead of going to school, which they see as a waste of time. The end of 8th grade is the "perfect" time to drop off the radar. That young girl wanted to join the Navy when she was in 7th grade. Now hers is a life wasted, IMO, and another generation of poverty in her family. Very sad, and frustrating, IMO. I did what I could to try to keep her in school, but it wasn't enough. I'm going to be sad about that for a very long time. Anyway, my point is that it's very easy to "claim" to be homeschooling, when you're not.
Click to expand...
Again, I've heard there are reports of a bankruptcy, but from the people I know that know this family as well as what I'm seeing I don't get the feeling that this is a low income family. This is a poultry farm with fairly large acreage with soybeans. Mom is a dental hygienist, older brother goes to college in TX, aunt is an interior decorator.

I haven't been able to figure out why he would be home schooled. There are a couple of programs that the more affluent families send their troubled kids to in the Anderson area, like wilderness camps, military schools, etc. I know because my ex brother in law was sent to a wilderness camp. (Side note, he's now a 30 something year old drug addict with an adult criminal record, so I don't think these programs work but hey...). I don't know why he wasn't at least sent to one of those, or maybe it was the news that he was going to be that set him off. We can only speculate for the time being.

I just think people traveling down the poverty roads are going in the wrong direction. He was on the wrestling team. They seemed to travel a good bit. His maternal grandparents were deceased but family seems close knit. I'm stumped.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
bluesneakers said:
Kinda sorta OT: Were you in the thread about a girl in one of these schools who went missing while on a hike? If so - was it the same type of system? Thanks.
Click to expand...
No, sorry, does not sound familiar. Will be curious, however, if you remember.

I am not a fan of 'those kind of schools' for a variety of reasons, but in regards to this case, my concern about the Anderson alternative school is that it is a Public School. I don't think a public school should be dressing the pupils in little military outfits.

And, speaking of OT, one of LaVoy Finicum's brothers is/was involved with one or more of 'those kind of schools'. Sometimes, when they run afoul of the law or get shut down, they just open a new one.
 
i.b.nora said:
No, sorry, does not sound familiar. Will be curious, however, if you remember.

I am not a fan of 'those kind of schools' for a variety of reasons, but in regards to this case, my concern about the Anderson alternative school is that it is a Public School. I don't think a public school should be dressing the pupils in little military outfits.

And, speaking of OT, one of LaVoy Finicum's brothers is/was involved with one or more of 'those kind of schools'. Sometimes, when they run afoul of the law or get shut down, they just open a new one.
Click to expand...

Okay so finding it was much easier than I thought:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...chiel-16-Cherokee-National-Forest-11-Nov-2015

The place is tough and remote. Lots of speculation why she was sent there.

http://freedommountainacademy.com
 
I looked back in this thread and it seems the funeral for the father was completely overlooked:

Funeral held for S.C. school shooting suspect's father

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-sc-school-shooting-suspects-father/91447648/

“TOWNVILLE, S.C. — Jeffrey Osborne, the 47-year-old father of the teen accused of shooting him and then three people at Townville Elementary School on Wednesday, was laid to rest Sunday afternoon in this quiet rural community.

Osborne, who owned a poultry farm near Townville was remembered as an avid motorcyclist and a good neighbor.

More than dozen bikers gathered in the parking lot outside the church on Sunday, among Osborne’s friends and neighbors who mourned.

Neighbors Dwain and Shelia Brown came to the church Sunday to pay their respects. They live near the Osborne family on Jolly Road. Dwain Brown described Jeffrey Osborne as a big-hearted and kind man who allowed hunters to use his land.”​

More. Considered a pillar of the community.
 
Why would he have liens that were not paid off?
 
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