School district allows religous daggers!!

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Lucid, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. Lucid

    Lucid Reality continues to ruin my life.

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  3. Lucid

    Lucid Reality continues to ruin my life.

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    The comments at the bottom of that article are especially good, many pointing out how students can't pray, wear religious t-shirts, etc, or how "under God" was taken out of the pledge of allegiance... and yet others are not only allowed to openly display their religion, but bring a weapon to school for it!
     
  4. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    this is my son's school system!!! this happened before the Christmas break and a letter was sent home to all the parents...

    then just this past week we got an email saying this knife thing could be worn if it was covered in cloth and worn under the clothes...

    crazy!!!!!!!! my son could be expelled for bringing a plastic lego star wars gun to school!!!!
     
  5. ziggy

    ziggy New Member

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    Time for the parents and taxpayers of this district to take over and remind these yayhoos who they work for.
     
  6. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    Nobody has ever stopped anyone from praying, except that public school teachers can't lead students in public prayers because doing so provides government endorsement of religious beliefs.

    It isn't possible to keep a human being from praying in his own mind.

    And IMHO the ceremonial daggers should stay home.
     
  7. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    See, I'm mixed on this one. I would NOT want a dagger in my child's school. But while looking up info on this, I found out that ALL BAPTIZED Sikhs must wear one at all times. I guess the only other way would be for this child to not go to school? I don't know. This one is tough.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
    The Kirpan (English pronunciation: /kɪərˈpɑːn/; Punjabi: ਕਿਰਪਾਨ kirpān) is a sword or dagger carried only by Baptized Sikhs. According to a mandatory religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh (the tenth Guru of Sikhism) at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar (a holy religious ceremony that formally baptizes a Sikh) in CE 1699, all baptised Sikhs (Khalsa) must wear a kirpan at all times[citation needed].

    Physically it is an instrument of "ahimsa" or non-violence. The principle of ahimsa is to actively prevent violence, not to simply stand by idly whilst violence is being done.

    United States of America
    There have been several court cases in states of the USA relating to the legality of wearing a kirpan in public places. Courts in New York and Ohio have ruled that banning the wearing of a kirpan is unconstitutional.[10] In New York City a compromise was reached with the Board of Education whereby the wearing of the knives was allowed so long as they were secured within the sheaths with adhesives and made impossible to draw. In recent years the Sikh practice of wearing a kirpan has caused problems for security personnel at airports and other checkpoints; security personnel may confiscate kirpans if they feel it is necessary, but are advised to treat them with respect.[11] Sikh leaders chose not to attend an April 17, 2008 interfaith meeting with Pope Benedict XVI at the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington, DC rather than remove the kirpan.[12]
     
  8. Lucid

    Lucid Reality continues to ruin my life.

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    Well, I apologize, I was simply mentioning what the comments on the article were saying.
     
  9. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro

    The Making of the Khalsa
    1699: Guru Gobind Rai (Singh) establishes the Khalsa

    Guru Gobind Singh was the last Guru of the Sikhs in human form. He created the Khalsa, a spiritual brotherhood and sisterhood devoted to purity of thought and action. He gave the Khalsa a distinctive external form to remind them of their commitment, and to help them maintain an elevated state of consciousness. Every Sikh baptized as Khalsa vows to wear the Five "K's"

    Kesh - uncut hair and beard, as given by God, to sustain him or her in higher consciousness; and a turban, the crown of spirituality.

    Kangha - a wooden comb to properly groom the hair as a symbol of cleanliness.

    Katchera - specially made cotton underwear as a reminder of the commitment to purity.

    Kara - a steel circle, worn on the wrist, signifying bondage to Truth and freedom from every other entanglement.

    Kirpan - the sword, with which the Khalsa is committed to righteously defend the fine line of the Truth.
     
  10. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    From what I understand Nova, they are not ceremonial daggers. They are a MUST for all baptized Sikh. They have been a must since 1699.

    This is a tough one. Because, if they are a must and these people MUST wear them to comply with their religious beliefs, how do you make them take them off?

    But then again, if you allow these kirpans, then where is the line drawn???
     
  11. WhyaDuck?

    WhyaDuck? Inactive

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    This is a difficult issue, which has come up in a lot of districts. To say that this is a special privilege is not quite correct, since the kirpan is not a weapon as such but an insignia of devotion - as far as I know, Christians are not prohibited from wearing crosses, which are also insignia. And Nova is correct, the prohibition of religion in schools refers to the pushing of a faith by the teachers, not to the personal faith of the students, so as to avoid the appearance of the state sponsoring a particular church. I wouldn't compare something as significant as the kirpan to toy knives, etc. Also, it is my understanding that these daggers are not generally usable for violent purposes, as they are usually dull and pinioned into the sheath, and not much more dangerous than a pair of scissors. This is not a choice for baptized Sikhs, it is part of their identity. This is not a frivolous request on the part of this family, who might not have access to a quality Sikh parochial school.

    This would not bother me if this were my son's school. Actually, I think it is a sign that zero tolerance without context might be starting to loosen its weird grasp.

    Just my opinion.
     
  12. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    ITA

    But, there are a lot lot of school systems that have banned religious clothes and symbols. Especially public schools. Seperation of church and state thingy.

    So, there is the problem.

    I don't believe a baptized Sikh should be made to remove his/her kirpan. I also believe children of other religions should be able to show their love and faith also.

    Also, from my "research" I have found where kirpans have been used in violent ways although they are not for that purpose. From what I understand, they are meant to protect yourself and others from violence.
     
  13. WhyaDuck?

    WhyaDuck? Inactive

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    Yes, it can be an issue, re: usability. Orthodox Sikhs claim the dagger must be usable in order to keep with the tenants of the faith. Others compromise by making the dagger not sharp (which is fairly common, I think), and others pinion it in its sheath. Still others allow for small gold dagger pendants as a symbolic presence (though this would not usually be acceptable at all to Orthodox Sikhs).

    Generally, conditions are negotiated between the Sikh community and the school board, and safety precautions are made. In Quebec, for instance, kirpans must be worn in a hard sheath that no other student can access (to prevent another student using the kirpan) under the student's clothes, and it must be secured by a heavy fabric cover. I believe this was upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada in 2006.
     
  14. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    Yeah I saw that about the 2006 ruling in Canada.

    IMO it's a tough call to make.
     
  15. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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  16. LunaticFringe

    LunaticFringe I know you're out there...

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    Ewww!
     
  17. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    Not sure what part you are referring to. But they can not cut any hair on their body.
     
  18. RLynne

    RLynne Verified Expert

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    I have to ask--is this totally accurate? I am not sure. I am aware of public schools not allowing school-sponsored groups to have religious clothes, symbols, etc. I am aware of public schools banning t-shirts, etc. that are deemed possibly offensive (e.g., denigrating various religions). I am aware of public schools not allowing religious displays (e.g. signs, etc.) at school-sponsored events. I am *not* aware of public schools prohibiting religious clothes/symbols. I could be wrong (and if I am, people, please educate me!). But I am *not* aware of any public school having a policy saying, e.g., that a student cannot wear, for example, a cross to school. I'll admit, I could be wrong--it's been a long time since I've closely looked at 1st amendment issues in the public school context.

    With that said: I am not religious. I was raised Catholic, and am recovering :). I am a strong advocate of the separation of church and state. I also lean strongly towards civil liberties. I disagree with quite a bit of what the Catholic Church teaches...but I have no problem with a Catholic student wearing a Catholic t-shirts at the public schools my tax dollars pay for. I also have no problem with a Sikh student wearing a ceremonial dagger at the public schools my tax dollars pay for.
     
  19. ziggy

    ziggy New Member

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    Catholic Rosary and Crosses banned from being worn visibly.
    http://www.gazette.com/articles/school-105857-springs-cross.html

    Yes, unfortunately it is happening more and more.

    A teacher was told she could not wear a small gold cross necklace to class - that she would be fired if she did.

    It's all the name of preventing gangs and wiccans from displaying symbols don't you know...

    I'm not all for displaying everything you are about at school through your dress. I'd just as soon uniforms make an encore. School kids need to be concentrating - not getting distracted by every little thing they can to pick on or tease other kids - or for some kids to "get under the skin" of others. That's just my humble O.
     
  20. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    as for a tough call to make... it surly was... we are in this district..

    when it first came to light the district immediately notified all parents of the issue..

    the resolution that came (by email almost a week ago iirc..I get emails from the school all the time so my timing may be off) I feel appropriately respects this religion ((allowing them to wear it to school)) but also is respectful of other school policies and issues ((they have to wear this encased and under the clothing))

    this area is VERY DIVERSE... very much so...

    I think there resolution is on par... that is just my opinion.
     
  21. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    I think it's cool. But then, I have no problem with religion and education being mixed.
     

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