Schoolboys get detention for refusing to kneel and "pray" to Allah in RE class

[Karole28]

The Jews don't believe Jesus is the Son of God either, except in the sense that we are all sons/children of God. Is the "Christian" God other than the one Jews pray to?

Okaaay, would a Jew take Communion?

If not, why not?

 

[4eyedbuzzard]

Okaaay, would a Jew take Communion?

If not, why not?

I don't play the answer a question with a question game. I asked first. The Jews don't believe Jesus is the Son of God either, except in the sense that we are all sons/children of God. If accepting Jesus as the Son of God in the messianic sense is the criteria for establishing whether the God that Muslims pray to is the same as the God Christians pray to, I must first have an answer to this question, as it is the only way it can be answered:

Is the "Christian" God other than the one Jews pray to?

[BBL, mowing very big overgrown lawn.]

 

[Taximom]

I see this turning into a semantics discussion when really the article/thread is about whether these boys should have been given a detention for the situation they were in. If they were told to kneel and pray to Martha Stewart, would we be having this type of discussion?! (Maybe!)

 

[Texana]

We could be here all day debating the differences, and very interesting and enlightening it is, too.

However, it has nothing to do with the original issue.

No child or adult should be punished or otherwise forced to participate in a religious activity or observance against their will (and in the case of children, the parents obviously have a say as well.)

It doesn't matter a hoot in hell what you or I think is same or different. It's the person who's being forced to kneel who gets to decide that. None of the rest of what we say matters a bit. Religion is a personal and individual freedom, not a collective decision by the authorities, whether it's a teacher or a king.

Start rationalizing this as "It's all the same god anyway" "It would be disrespectful to the others who do believe that way" and you're going to end up on keeping company with the Inquisitors, who, after all, had only the eternal damnation or salvation of their subjects in mind.

 

[absinthe]

I'd like to know whether those who think that Muslims and Christians do not believe in the same god also believe that Jews and Christians do not believe in the same god. Thanks!

P.S. this whole forcing kids to perform Muslim prayers is despicable, I'm sure everyone is in agreement on that. But I lovea good semantics discussion as much as any other Lit major!

 

[Ciara]

I cant remember now but I am sure the article said that they wanted the boys to wear the headscarves too while they knelt. I must admit, I am enjoying reading all the different viewpoints on this thread even the ones I disagree with. The fact remains I would have been mad if these were my boys and would not have allowed them to do the detention.

 

[Karole28]

I don't play the answer a question with a question game. I asked first. The Jews don't believe Jesus is the Son of God either, except in the sense that we are all sons/children of God. If accepting Jesus as the Son of God in the messianic sense is the criteria for establishing whether the God that Muslims pray to is the same as the God Christians pray to, I must first have an answer to this question, as it is the only way it can be answered:

Is the "Christian" God other than the one Jews pray to?

[BBL, mowing very big overgrown lawn.]

I believe they are different God(s) inasmuch as they each ask for a significantly different way of worshipping them.

Jews, Christians and Muslims alike believe they worship the one true God.

 

[Karole28]

We could be here all day debating the differences, and very interesting and enlightening it is, too.

However, it has nothing to do with the original issue.

No child or adult should be punished or otherwise forced to participate in a religious activity or observance against their will (and in the case of children, the parents obviously have a say as well.)

It doesn't matter a hoot in hell what you or I think is same or different. It's the person who's being forced to kneel who gets to decide that. None of the rest of what we say matters a bit. Religion is a personal and individual freedom, not a collective decision by the authorities, whether it's a teacher or a king.

Start rationalizing this as "It's all the same god anyway" "It would be disrespectful to the others who do believe that way" and you're going to end up on keeping company with the Inquisitors, who, after all, had only the eternal damnation or salvation of their subjects in mind.

:clap:

 

[BhamMama]

They do not believe that Jesus is the Son of G*d.

Read what I posted. I didn't say he was the son of G-d. Many other religions believe the same, including the one I practise. Why is that important?

 

[BhamMama]

They dont "exalt" Jesus above all others either....they do that with Muhammed

Neither does my religion.

They do think he was blessed and the son of Mary, as such he was also the messiah and revered for who he was. They never deny he is the messiah to christians.

 

[Ciara]

Neither does my religion.

They do think he was blessed and the son of Mary, as such he was also the messiah and revered for who he was. They never deny he is the messiah to christians.

I dont know what your religion is BhamMama but its ok if they dont. The point I was making was in reference to a quote someone else posted from the Koran that said they were to "exalt" him above all others yet they dont....they exalt Muhammed instead.

 

[BhamMama]

I dont know what your religion is BhamMama but its ok if they dont. The point I was making was in reference to a quote someone else posted from the Koran that said they were to "exalt" him above all others yet they dont....they exalt Muhammed instead.

Gotcha. I never posted that they exalted him so I was wondering what that was about lol. They may have respected him and whatever but no, they had their own prophet.

I personally don't want my child being taught about other religions except by a person who knows what they are doing. It's one thing to search out a teacher, it's a totally different thing if someone takes it upon themselves.

I purposely do not put my children into situations where they have to pick and choose, either to please an adult, or to be the 'same' as their friends.

I say the teacher overstepped the line. Not because it was about Islam, but because I dont think school teachers should be teaching about any religion...period.

 

[Ciara]

I dont mind teachers teaching my child about his Religion...thats the reason I sent him to a Catholic school and I was taught that way. If I didnt want him to hear about his religion from teachers I would have sent him to a different school.

 

[Karole28]

Read what I posted. I didn't say he was the son of G-d. Many other religions believe the same, including the one I practise. Why is that important?

In my religion, it's extremely important.

What is important in yours?

 

[Karole28]

Gotcha. I never posted that they exalted him so I was wondering what that was about lol. They may have respected him and whatever but no, they had their own prophet.

I personally don't want my child being taught about other religions except by a person who knows what they are doing. It's one thing to search out a teacher, it's a totally different thing if someone takes it upon themselves.

I purposely do not put my children into situations where they have to pick and choose, either to please an adult, or to be the 'same' as their friends.

I say the teacher overstepped the line. Not because it was about Islam, but because I dont think school teachers should be teaching about any religion...period.

I agree, completely.

 

[becklynn]

I too, commend them.

At its core, belief (especially regarding the supernatural) is not really a choice one makes. After all the information and analysis and mind games, you simply believe something, or you don't. But you don't really consciously choose.

If your BF cannot accept and respect your core beliefs, as you accept his, he(and others like him) will likely treat you in a condescending manner if he believes this is a conscious choice you make. Ultimately, he doesn't want you to seek and find the truth, he simply wants you to believe as he does. In this sense, he is the one who is "lost", not you. And without mutual respect in a relationship, the outcome is inevitable.

...This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

After you posted this I had a talk with my BF. It was one of the best talks we had ever had. I told him about your post and how I felt it truly made sense. He in turn told me he was only arguing because he wants me in heaven with him. He cried and I teared up. I usually never tear up but yeah I guess I cried. His whole meaning for putting pressure on me was he is afraid I won't go to heaven to be with him for eternity. He does feel like I have to follow a scripted line of living and if I do not do it God may not allow me in. Your post was dead on with this one. I asked him if he thought I would go to heaven or hell and he said I was the nicest kindest person he had ever met. I should go to heaven but he felt if I did not foolow certain "rules" I could go to hell. So we discussed the rules and do feel the same as him but not as the bible is literal. He now feels How I can be a spiritual person but not be of any faith. Gosh, making up is great isn't it? We are so much closer now, though I felt we could not be, We know each of our basic visions and they are the same.I cannot tell you what it like to have the man of your dreams have his tears drop onto you and say he loves you. Thank you for your post.

 

[Ciara]

After you posted this I had a talk with my BF. It was one of the best talks we had ever had. I told him about your post and how I felt it truly made sense. He in turn told me he was only arguing because he wants me in heaven with him. He cried and I teared up. I usually never tear up but yeah I guess I cried. His whole meaning for putting pressure on me was he is afraid I won't go to heaven to be with him for eternity. He does feel like I have to follow a scripted line of living and if I do not do it God may not allow me in. Your post was dead on with this one. I asked him if he thought I would go to heaven or hell and he said I was the nicest kindest person he had ever met. I should go to heaven but he felt if I did not foolow certain "rules" I could go to hell. So we discussed the rules and do feel the same as him but not as the bible is literal. He now feels How I can be a spiritual person but not be of any faith. Gosh, making up is great isn't it? We are so much closer now, though I felt we could not be, We know each of our basic visions and they are the same.I cannot tell you what it like to have the man of your dreams have his tears drop onto you and say he loves you. Thank you for your post.[/quote

This post alone has made me happy I started this thread!!
That was beautiful becklynn

 

[becklynn]

This post alone has made me happy I started this thread!!
That was beautiful becklynn[/quote]
Actually your post started our whole argument. I read where you said I should be able to speak what I beleive and it just stuck in my mind and I fought for it. Now it has been 2 days and we were still going over it. We found we loved each other for our basic beleifs. I am glad I argued with him. We fixed things we did not even know was wrong. I feel like this whole thread was pointed at our lives to get us here. It was just an issue and it made my life better. We love each other more and have more respect for each other and ourselves. Now we know where we are and really want to live up to a greater purpose in life. It has been an awakening. And I did not have to change anything about myself nor did he.

 

[Ciara]

This post alone has made me happy I started this thread!!
That was beautiful becklynn

Actually your post started our whole argument. I read where you said I should be able to speak what I beleive and it just stuck in my mind and I fought for it. Now it has been 2 days and we were still going over it. We found we loved each other for our basic beleifs. I am glad I argued with him. We fixed things we did not even know was wrong. I feel like this whole thread was pointed at our lives to get us here. It was just an issue and it made my life better. We love each other more and have more respect for each other and ourselves. Now we know where we are and really want to live up to a greater purpose in life. It has been an awakening. And I did not have to change anything about myself nor did he.[/quote]

I am glad that all the debate in this thread has brought some good. Religion can be so divisive and even though I may not agree with all aspects of other religions, I still believe that others have the right to believe what they want or not to believe at all without anyone calling them out over it.
I dont want to force my religion on anyone or have theirs forced on me.
Your fella just loves you very much so there was no maliciousness in his fears. I wish you both the very best of luck Becklynn:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Ciara]

Oooops I think I messed the quotes up abit in that last post of mine but hopefully its still readable:waitasec: