Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[TexMex]

I asked you last night--would you assume what you assume had everything else been the same but gender? If Travis had been a woman and his stalker a man?

Yep
I also think that women are smarter than men regarding stalkers (dangers of) and more importantly s-e-x

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Can you post this picture, pretty please?

This is the one on the floor and closer? to her where you see just her.




The one in the light blue shirt she is laying more on the couch, and it is the one with the man behind the door. I have looked for it again. It was with the first one, but can't find it now. Google Jodi Arais and images. I can't remember if these were posted in this forum during the trial. I'll keep looking.

 

[LinTX]

Love this interview with Juan. Apparently the interviewer (an attorney) was publicly very critical of his 'style' during the trial, but after reading his book says she now understands his strategy & strongly recommends his book. It's long, but IMO one of his best:


[video=youtube;RZCRDk_2pZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY[/video]

 

[TexMex]

But...see....you are assuming she manipulated him on June 4, and that he yielded to her manipulations, and the evidence you provide for that is timestamped photos of sex on June 4.

Yes. He was already yielding to them. Even one word responses to her texts give her all the opening she needs. Next they speak by phone. Before you know it he's returning her calls and speaking to the person he fought with five days earlier for an hour.
She's a sociopath. That's like her job.

 

[TexMex]

In all of that convo, it was about taking pics of her, not of him.

And no, I don't believe they had sex on June 4th, not with all of the imputed evidence to the contrary that I see.

He spoke about getting a pic of his penis sticking up. And "I'm going to get some great shots of freakin' putting it in you"

(Sorry about the graphic language)

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Yep
I also think that women are smarter than men regarding stalkers (dangers of) and more importantly s-e-x

A woman promising all kinds of sex is more effective than a man to a woman. A woman knows what to do, most men kinda rambling around not really being the stud he promised to be. And to a Mormon man, a woman like Jodi, who had been screwing around since her teens, would seem to be a dream come true. Both of them were pretty immature in their sex life. All Jodi had to offer was blow jobs, anal sex and vaginal sex,and that was wearing thin. She had to come up with more kink to keep him, especially if he was hooking up with CL and others. Jodi was old, worn out, she couldn't compete with a fresh face inexperienced Mormon girl

 

[Hope4More]

THE MAY 26 CHAT…I’M ADDICTED, I’M ADDICTED. NOT.


Since early morning May 22 Travis has insisted the put in writing what she keeps texting him she so desperately needs to tell him.

She says she won't do that, but she'll tell him part 1 if he agrees to respond, in writing, before she tells him part 2.

They talk on the phone. He tells her later what she said was "disgusting."

He replies to her with an email, in which he tells her, whatever else was also included, that he knows she slashed his tires and stole his journals.

She ignores his many texts demanding her reply, waits a long time to reply at all, then the chat begins, at 2:33AM.

Almost 2 hours later, around 4:20AM, TA uses the “A” word. Repeatedly. All in the same little section of chat.

What has happened up until that point? She has sent him an email with what TA calls “a sob story.” She has NOT confessed anything in writing.

He tries for those 2 hours to get her to admit she’s lying…about anything, including tires, journals, erasing an email to Lisa, hacking into his FB to send “something down the pipeline,” the fact she acted as she did out of her own self-interest, not out of love or concern for him. Anything.

But..she doesn’t and won’t and keeps playing with him. It’s 2 hours in. He’s tried insults and anger and beating it out of her, he’s tried eliciting compassion or empathy for him, he’s tried getting her to come clean for her own good. Nothing.

Two hours in he tells her—YOU WIN. Let’s just get this over with, let’s stop pretending. I didn’t mean anything I said in my email, it was just my way of getting closer to you. I’m addicted to you, OK? So all I need from you now is tell me you’re not sorry. That’s it.

JA responds- NO, EVERYTHING YOU SAID IN YOUR EMAIL WAS TRUE.

Pretty likely that Travis thinks he has her now. It’s all true? So she’s confessing what she did??

Because, right after that, he drops his demand for her to put anything else in writing, perhaps because he thinks she just did admit, in writing, that she slashed his tires and stole his journals. And whatever else was in the email.

He tells her-OK, call me now, and tell me everything, in detail, be specific. It should be liberating, right? Right? Right? Right?

She calls him. She is not going to come clean. 3-4 minutes later she sends him another email. The subject heading says ” Two things you are wrong about,” and in the email says: I did not slash your tires. I did not steal your journals. And I’m going to see a lawyer.


(And, if that doesn’t help provide another context why he pulled out the addiction lines, nothing ever will).

 

[Niner]

Hey!

snipped by me...
Everyone here knows I welcome opinions and debate. And I imagine everyone here also knows I put a lot of work into researching and writing up/paraphrasing the actual record (7 months of the text record, for example) so that those with an interest can base their opinions on the facts that are available.

And I, for one, REALLY appreciate your hard work!! :happydance: and Congrats to your son! :confetti:

snipped by me...
I'm probably the only person during jury duty who is just PRAYING to get picked! LOL!

No, you are not the only one that prays when it comes to jury duty! I've been called twice, and nil...

and YES! :welcome6: to our group here!

will post and continue reading here...

 

[Hope4More]

Love this interview with Juan. Apparently the interviewer (an attorney) was publicly very critical of his 'style' during the trial, but after reading his book says she now understands his strategy & strongly recommends his book. It's long, but IMO one of his best:


[video=youtube;RZCRDk_2pZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY[/video]

Thanks for the link. It's his best interview yet, IMO. Love the focus on trial strategy.

Interesting that he repeated how difficult it was for him to handle the May 26 chat. And that the chat seemed to be about Travis trying to get her to stop lying "about something she'd done."

Also loved him saying that he didn't get annoyed by her verbal sparring etc.- because he knew that meant he was succeeding in unmasking the poor little abused virtually virginal victim as a master liar.

Also loved his saying that she must have "lost her way" or gotten so irritated with him that she blurted out--yah, I enjoyed having sex with him. Thus blowing out of the water the poor me taken advantage of virtual virgin lie- one of the biggest whoppers of all.

 

[Hope4More]

Do we know (in min/sec) how long the June 4th voice mail was that she left him after killing him?

One little piece of VM records I figured out awhile ago...I think all the 17 second calls must be hang ups, and that Verizon in 2008 had switches and or billing with a 17 second threshold.

 

[TrialWatcher]

(...)

Some may inquire "What about the bedroom nudes?" My response is - in the only two pics of him he appears to have been dozing and not willingly involved in picture taking, as evidenced by him throwing the bottle at the camera. "What about the photo shoot/tree tying fantasy?" In all of that convo, it was about taking pics of her, not of him.

And no, I don't believe they had sex on June 4th, not with all of the imputed evidence to the contrary that I see.

What, "imputed evidence" is there to suggest she didn't have sex with Travis? I have seen several people state they believe he may have been raped by Arias or didn't have sex. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest this is anything but hugely improbable. Two juries believed they had sex. Travis' family didn't claim otherwise. Nor did the defense. I can't find a jot of strong or even weak evidence to support the opinion on this forum or elsewhere.

You state that Travis was only in two of the pics. He was taking the pics. You know that there was a photo of his knee demonstrating to Juan Martinez that Travis was the photographer. Martinez described one of the pics as showing sexual arousal - to put it delicately. The graphic nature of the pics suggests they were sexual to a very intimate degree. If he was taking the pics there is no evidence it is under duress and Arias herself was naked and vulnerable in certain positions.

As for your last point on the sex tape - it wasn't just about him taking pics of Jodi. Travis says "Is it wrong that I'm glad that we started *advertiser censored*****"? This weeks before his murder. Despite losing Lisa, having things stolen, endless grief and drama, he wanted sex with Arias. Even phone sex. She was "the prototype of sluttiness" and Travis was going to be in the photos planned.

 

[TrialWatcher]

Love this interview with Juan. Apparently the interviewer (an attorney) was publicly very critical of his 'style' during the trial, but after reading his book says she now understands his strategy & strongly recommends his book. It's long, but IMO one of his best:


[video=youtube;RZCRDk_2pZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZCRDk_2pZY[/video]

Thanks for posting, LinTX. One of the two best I have yet seen.Such interesting points on the chronological order given how much criticism Juan received at the time.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I did this manipulation to a guy in my late teens for years. I hate typing that, but, it is what it is. He didn't call it addiction (he had a more robust vocabulary than mormans are allowed to use). Generally, she was way more powerful than he had the skills to deal with.

However, I still doubt they had sex that day, but that's because I don't trust the timestamps, etc.

YAY, no sex on June 4, 2008. I am not alone in my thought process after all. :happydance:

 

[pocketaccent]

The sex was coercive? What evidence is there of that? The evidence suggests the opposite. The time stamped photos show Arias was in vulnerable naked positions. Travis was taking the pictures. Juan verified his knee is visible above Arias. He couldn't have overpowered Arias when she was naked or had her 'back' to him? What evidence do you base your opinions on? How many men are raped prior to murder by a woman? Does anyone have American statistics on that? Never mind the physical difficulties, the probability of this must be very low. Add in the bigger picture of sex between them on the telephone weeks earlier and Travis planning to take sexual pictures, you feel he was coerced? I'm intrigued what evidence lies behind the theory from yourself and PocketAccent?

If they had sex on June 4th, JA raped Travis IMO. He didn't want her there and he was scared. Female-male rape is different from male-female rape. Rape doesn't have to be violent and yes photos can be taken during and yes the man can be aroused. JMO.

 

[LinasK]

Thanks for the link. It's his best interview yet, IMO. Love the focus on trial strategy.

Interesting that he repeated how difficult it was for him to handle the May 26 chat. And that the chat seemed to be about Travis trying to get her to stop lying "about something she'd done."

Also loved him saying that he didn't get annoyed by her verbal sparring etc.- because he knew that meant he was succeeding in unmasking the poor little abused virtually virginal victim as a master liar.

Also loved his saying that she must have "lost her way" or gotten so irritated with him that she blurted out--yah, I enjoyed having sex with him. Thus blowing out of the water the poor me taken advantage of virtual virgin lie- one of the biggest whoppers of all.

:laugh:Virtual virgin- who's had at least 5 boyfriends and lived with men since she was 17!!!:laughcry::hilarious::hilarious:

 

[LinasK]

What, "imputed evidence" is there to suggest she didn't have sex with Travis? I have seen several people state they believe he may have been raped by Arias or didn't have sex. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest this is anything but hugely improbable. Two juries believed they had sex. Travis' family didn't claim otherwise. Nor did the defense. I can't find a jot of strong or even weak evidence to support the opinion on this forum or elsewhere.

You state that Travis was only in two of the pics. He was taking the pics. You know that there was a photo of his knee demonstrating to Juan Martinez that Travis was the photographer. Martinez described one of the pics as showing sexual arousal - to put it delicately. The graphic nature of the pics suggests they were sexual to a very intimate degree. If he was taking the pics there is no evidence it is under duress and Arias herself was naked and vulnerable in certain positions.

As for your last point on the sex tape - it wasn't just about him taking pics of Jodi. Travis says "Is it wrong that I'm glad that we started *advertiser censored*****"? This weeks before his murder. Despite losing Lisa, having things stolen, endless grief and drama, he wanted sex with Arias. Even phone sex. She was "the prototype of sluttiness" and Travis was going to be in the photos planned.

Actually the ones of her naked on the bed could've been selfies taken with a timer, that's what I've always thought. Maybe she did it while Travis had started his shower...

 

[pocketaccent]

Thanks for the link. It's his best interview yet, IMO. Love the focus on trial strategy.

Interesting that he repeated how difficult it was for him to handle the May 26 chat. And that the chat seemed to be about Travis trying to get her to stop lying "about something she'd done."

Also loved him saying that he didn't get annoyed by her verbal sparring etc.- because he knew that meant he was succeeding in unmasking the poor little abused virtually virginal victim as a master liar.

Also loved his saying that she must have "lost her way" or gotten so irritated with him that she blurted out--yah, I enjoyed having sex with him. Thus blowing out of the water the poor me taken advantage of virtual virgin lie- one of the biggest whoppers of all.

Also, he said he controlled himself and held back on a lot of evidence that could be problematic later on as he respects the appeals process. ie, her bikini shopping after the Memorial service - shocks the conscience, too inflammatory, according to him.

There must be a lot more stuff we won't know about for a long time. All my hair will have turned white by that time though.

 

[Val1]

I truly believe whatever pattern they were in was broken after May 26.
I'm beginning to think she raped him on June 4th.
No, I don't think she said -if you don't have sex with me, I'll kill you -not like that though.

Sorry for breaking your current topic but getting back to the video and stills you had mentioned your hb took of you, did you happen to notice if the stills he pulled from the video were in proper sequence as per when they would have occurred in the video, or did they only reflect the times that the pics were actually pulled from it?

ie. dates/times fictional for example purposes... instead of the pics showing they were from 02/21/16 at 7:45pm when the event actually occurred on the video(assuming the date/time on the camera was correct), they had 02/29/16 at 3:33pm when they were pulled from the video before both the video and the pics may have been deleted?

I hope you get what I'm asking.. last question, is your camera the same model/make as TA's... :gaah:

 

[Val1]

Actually the ones of her naked on the bed could've been selfies taken with a timer, that's what I've always thought. Maybe she did it while Travis had started his shower...

Hah! I also didn't know the "knee" was identified as belonging to TA(if it was even a knee, from the pic I have it could have just as easily been the corner of some of his beige cushions stacked to prop up the camera)... much as those penis pics that were pulled from her hard drive(or was it one of her phones, sorry can't recall for sure)could not be proven to have been of him. If I do recall correctly, there had been an issue with one of his previous roomies that got him booted from the house, someone JA had become "friends" with, I often wonder if she'd used TA's place for meet and greets like her roomie in her foreclosed house had complained about. Heck, she had even mentioned in one of her journal entries that one of TA's roomies was home but had his door locked... really? Had she checked it?

 

[Hope4More]

What, "imputed evidence" is there to suggest she didn't have sex with Travis? I have seen several people state they believe he may have been raped by Arias or didn't have sex. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest this is anything but hugely improbable. Two juries believed they had sex. Travis' family didn't claim otherwise. Nor did the defense. I can't find a jot of strong or even weak evidence to support the opinion on this forum or elsewhere.

You state that Travis was only in two of the pics. He was taking the pics. You know that there was a photo of his knee demonstrating to Juan Martinez that Travis was the photographer. Martinez described one of the pics as showing sexual arousal - to put it delicately. The graphic nature of the pics suggests they were sexual to a very intimate degree. If he was taking the pics there is no evidence it is under duress and Arias herself was naked and vulnerable in certain positions.

As for your last point on the sex tape - it wasn't just about him taking pics of Jodi. Travis says "Is it wrong that I'm glad that we started *advertiser censored*****"? This weeks before his murder. Despite losing Lisa, having things stolen, endless grief and drama, he wanted sex with Arias. Even phone sex. She was "the prototype of sluttiness" and Travis was going to be in the photos planned.

And you know the jury believed they had sex....because how? I don't remember the jury verdict being contingent upon that belief.