Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

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Thank you Hope4More!!!!!!!!

You have superbly illustrated all other facts to consider in addition to T's use of the word 'addiction' when searching for the truth.
:yourock:
(Are those post-it notes in your kaleidoscope?)


No, but maybe the choice of that photo was subliminally related. ;). The post-its are all little notes left by visitors to the private ranch in Utah with amazing petroglyphs, only one of the notes left by me, one of those visitors, thanks to the recommendation by RickshawFan. :)
 
Wonderful examination and conclusions, Hope - it bothers me to no end that if it weren't for the time stamps, no one would ever believe he would take pics of her uglies, have nookie with her, or even allow her into his house after their last communications, it goes so contrary to what transpired between them in those last days.

I have to find a way to prove those time stamps are wrong. But I have no means to do so, don't even have the originals. lol



Mostly related, I think: ;)

JM genuinely believes they had sex that day. IMO he doesn't base that belief just on the fact of date and time stamped photos being recovered from TA's camera. I don't think there is more evidence of sex that day that wasn't introduced, I just think JM reached his own conclusions about who Travis was, and TA's vulnerabilities.

And that's where I think there is an opening, however slight, for doubt about sex that day, in addition to thinking sex that day is counter intuitive at best, impossible at worse.


JM is unapologetic about what he focused on in the case, which was he put it, about "a gun, a knife, a brutal slaughter, and the need to prove premeditation." That's it. Perfect for trying the case, successfully and brilliantly, but not so much for the unrelated and discretionary task of trying to figure out all that the did to torment and control Travis.

It's always been telling to me that JM didn't think to question the legitimacy of all her texts and emails to TA (and of the "May 10" sex call) until well into trial one, if then. As Nurmi said, the State could have chosen to examine her Helio at any time after it was "found," but chose not to. (JM did pick up on several of the 's "accidental" texts; her habit of sending those was easy to identify from even a quick scan of the text records).


IMO JM didn't fully explore the 's manipulations because doing so wasn't a priority, and because they were, in his estimation, either irrelevant, inconsequential, or inadmissable evidence even if they could be proven.

His line of thinking also brought him to the conclusion that TA was never held at gunpoint in the shower. On that I think he is very much mistaken. I don't think there's any reason to accept sex that day just because JM thinks that, or even simply because of the photos.

But....I remain pesky about a reasonable why, and an alternative timeframe that fits. :)
 
Wonderful examination and conclusions, Hope - it bothers me to no end that if it weren't for the time stamps, no one would ever believe he would take pics of her uglies, have nookie with her, or even allow her into his house after their last communications, it goes so contrary to what transpired between them in those last days.

I have to find a way to prove those time stamps are wrong. But I have no means to do so, don't even have the originals. lol

I think the closest we've come to this is the idea that the sex photos were photos of a computer screen, which explains why the timing seems too compact for the events shown. The time stamps would reflect the times downloaded to the camera, and didn't take into account that the time stamps would read June 4.

It's very possible they had sex on June 4 AND old photos were loaded on to TA's camera.
 
No, but maybe the choice of that photo was subliminally related. ;). The post-its are all little notes left by visitors to the private ranch in Utah with amazing petroglyphs, only one of the notes left by me, one of those visitors, thanks to the recommendation by RickshawFan. :)

One of my all time best adventures.... I bet my note is in there somewhere.
 
Thank you Hope4More!!!!!!!!

You have superbly illustrated all other facts to consider in addition to T's use of the word 'addiction' when searching for the truth.
:yourock:
(Are those post-it notes in your kaleidoscope?)

Did I miss a photo of the McConkie post-its?
 
Wonderful examination and conclusions, Hope - it bothers me to no end that if it weren't for the time stamps, no one would ever believe he would take pics of her uglies, have nookie with her, or even allow her into his house after their last communications, it goes so contrary to what transpired between them in those last days.

I have to find a way to prove those time stamps are wrong. But I have no means to do so, don't even have the originals. lol



No Sex On June 4th!!!!! I got your back.
 
Hey Caylee Advocate-- are you a guy, and I've missed that all this time??

(btw, I guess I'm the lone holdout & black sheep of our sisters-mister group for thinking sex on the 4th was possible AND that if so, it wasn't a fallback into or a continuation of old patterns).
 
Hey Caylee Advocate-- are you a guy, and I've missed that all this time??

(btw, I guess I'm the lone holdout & black sheep of our sisters-mister group for thinking sex on the 4th was possible AND that if so, it wasn't a fallback into or a continuation of old patterns).


BBM: No, you're not. While I would be glad to know that sex didn't happen that day, I'm with you on seeing that it's entirely possible. I don't think that their sex that day was fueled by sexual desire--with either person--or that it was an addictive pattern. If sex happened that day, she was using sex to manipulate with the goal of controlling him, and he was using sex to get her out of his house and out of his life. I really doubt that either of them felt any basic sexual desire for the other. Each had his or her own reasons for the sex, if it happened.

I agree with you that he was focused on getting this pestilence--who refused to leave him alone--out of his life for good. I feel so sorry for him, knowing that she was always contacting him, regularly showing up uninvited and emphatically staying and staying and staying there, and stalking him. What a nightmare. And in that context I can see him having sex with her that day, hoping (and even desperately believing, unfortunately) that after the final "one for the road" she would finally just go and stay away forever. And he could then get on with his life.

We shouldn't assume that evidence of sex is evidence of sexual desire. JMO! :moo:
 
http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Alyce-LaViolette-cv.pdf

If not allowed please delete. I was looking around, and wondered if ALV had listed that she testified for the felon....on her qualifications. I came across the above link. Wonder who she is trying to impress? It is 28 pages long!!!!

It's a laughably padded cv. I'm an academic and am regularly on hiring committees and such a cv as hers is far from impressive to a hiring committee. There are professionals who do have a lengthy cv--even twenty-eight pages long!--but such a resume always contains genuine examples of scholarship, such as many many articles in peer-reviewed journals and many books published by respected publishing houses. Conference papers and workshops, as she lists, are also taken into account, but if the person repeatedly gives the same conference paper or the same workshop without then publishing it as a scholarly article, that paper or workshop is clearly dubious.
 
It's a laughably padded cv. I'm an academic and am regularly on hiring committees and such a cv as hers is far from impressive to a hiring committee. There are professionals who do have a lengthy cv--even twenty-eight pages long!--but such a resume always contains genuine examples of scholarship, such as many many articles in peer-reviewed journals and many books published by respected publishing houses. Conference papers and workshops, as she lists, are also taken into account, but if the person repeatedly gives the same conference paper or the same workshop without then publishing it as a scholarly article, that paper or workshop is clearly dubious.

Yes, inflated....much like the felon...but one is free and one is not.
 
Hey Caylee Advocate-- are you a guy, and I've missed that all this time??

(btw, I guess I'm the lone holdout & black sheep of our sisters-mister group for thinking sex on the 4th was possible AND that if so, it wasn't a fallback into or a continuation of old patterns).

I now go along with that view along the lines of your arguments upthread that makes a guess at the various daylong manipulations. Without having the excluded photos in front of me to rule this out, I do think it's very possible walked in on TA on June 4 while he was having some lonesome jolly time. And that she later converted the "walking in on him" episode to the pedo lie with the addition of a child's photo. This would be extreme revenge for the humiliation she created for herself on June 4, a mindbending FU at TA for excluding her from his life.
 
Mostly related, I think: ;)

JM genuinely believes they had sex that day. IMO he doesn't base that belief just on the fact of date and time stamped photos being recovered from TA's camera. I don't think there is more evidence of sex that day that wasn't introduced, I just think JM reached his own conclusions about who Travis was, and TA's vulnerabilities.

And that's where I think there is an opening, however slight, for doubt about sex that day, in addition to thinking sex that day is counter intuitive at best, impossible at worse.


JM is unapologetic about what he focused on in the case, which was he put it, about "a gun, a knife, a brutal slaughter, and the need to prove premeditation." That's it. Perfect for trying the case, successfully and brilliantly, but not so much for the unrelated and discretionary task of trying to figure out all that the did to torment and control Travis.

It's always been telling to me that JM didn't think to question the legitimacy of all her texts and emails to TA (and of the "May 10" sex call) until well into trial one, if then. As Nurmi said, the State could have chosen to examine her Helio at any time after it was "found," but chose not to. (JM did pick up on several of the 's "accidental" texts; her habit of sending those was easy to identify from even a quick scan of the text records).


IMO JM didn't fully explore the 's manipulations because doing so wasn't a priority, and because they were, in his estimation, either irrelevant, inconsequential, or inadmissable evidence even if they could be proven.

His line of thinking also brought him to the conclusion that TA was never held at gunpoint in the shower. On that I think he is very much mistaken. I don't think there's any reason to accept sex that day just because JM thinks that, or even simply because of the photos.

But....I remain pesky about a reasonable why, and an alternative timeframe that fits. :)

I agree, I think JM did/does believe they had sex that day, but after reading the texts and chats and such, I don't think it was anywhere near as often as she'd have others believe, I don't even think they were ever a 'real' couple, even while they were supposedly GF/BF he never took her on dates and she paid her own portion of trips they went on together. Yeah they grinded and had the one bathtub/braids/tootsie/pop rocks occasion but I think that was the only time they shared that level of knowing each other.

JM was wise enough to not fall into weeds we have, of proving her every lie, he didn't need to in order to convict her, I wish I could be satisfied similarly but I want every lie exposed, I don't want her getting away with anything (eeevil sis that I am).
 
http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Alyce-LaViolette-cv.pdf

If not allowed please delete. I was looking around, and wondered if ALV had listed that she testified for the felon....on her qualifications. I came across the above link. Wonder who she is trying to impress? It is 28 pages long!!!!

Egads. She's listed something special for ever day of her life. Another special snowflake, another narcissist, another self-aggrandizing distortionist.

Getting back to real with my WS pals....
 
TxJan1971's transcrips of the interrogation
31:00
JA: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, after noon. I just, you know…He had been cleaning his house umm…so I couldn’t… I wasn’t sitting on the couch. Usually I would just chill on the couch downstairs, you know, if no one was home. Umm…but he had like chairs and all that stuff all over the couch. I think he was cleaning the floors or something, uhh…fed Napoleon. I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet, but at one point he was going to go up and take a shower and it took a lot of convincing prior when he was shaving. I was like, I got some ideas, and they didn’t turn out good at all, not like I wanted to, but I thought that I could get some cool pictures of him shaving, ‘cause he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don’t know how it works. Umm…but he liked it though, apparently, because he used it for his profile picture on My Space. Umm…so those didn’t turn out as good and I was going to do that later but I asked him if I could take pictures of him in the shower, and he’s like, “No.” I was just like, “I have an idea.” “Well, what do you mean?” I was like, I said, I saw this thing in a Calvin Klein ad once and it looked really good, and you’re right, he wasn’t really comfortable at first. He’s standing there and he says, “I feel gay.” (Laughs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She told the shower story after DF told her Travis didn't look comfortable in the shower. Notice all of the -style embellishment throughout her lies. ...he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don't know how it works...he is standing there and says "I feel gay"....

The whole story doesn't flow well. The shaving/convincing story is blurred because she was making those details up in the moment. She was trying to convince DF the shower photos were consensual. She concurs with DF at the end-- 'you're right, he wasn't really comfortable at first'.

Nothing took a lot of convincing that day. Not before, not then. Travis did not know she was taking photos until too late.

Also notice "I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet"
Not. She knew what he was doing the whole day. She sure tried to add this important bit casually.

"I wasn't sitting on the couch" is a strange statement. Don't people usually say where they were sitting? Not where they were not sitting?
I think I can pick on the paragraph all day long.
 
I agree, I think JM did/does believe they had sex that day, but after reading the texts and chats and such, I don't think it was anywhere near as often as she'd have others believe, I don't even think they were ever a 'real' couple, even while they were supposedly GF/BF he never took her on dates and she paid her own portion of trips they went on together. Yeah they grinded and had the one bathtub/braids/tootsie/pop rocks occasion but I think that was the only time they shared that level of knowing each other.

JM was wise enough to not fall into weeds we have, of proving her every lie, he didn't need to in order to convict her, I wish I could be satisfied similarly but I want every lie exposed, I don't want her getting away with anything (eeevil sis that I am).

Yes, this exactly. There's no evidence for a whole lot of sex, intimacy, bf/gf coziness except what she staged, even when he had expressly told her not to hang all over him.

There's phone sex, and then there's the bathtub thing....That's all I can think of that we can corroborate.
 
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