Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

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josie1986

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Just seen the news article about Juan..I have a feeling this wouldn't even be happening if it wasn't for the arias trial and the publicity of it


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The Farm

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Hi all,
Been away from here for quite some time and there were three cases that I was very involved with and this is one of them. Watching that trial was exhausting but as least there was am appropiate sentence since she did not get the DP.
Jodi is one wicked witch and do hope that she is enjoying her "new" life in the slammer.
 

LinTX

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Thanks... from your link, I wonder if KN has had a charge lodged against him for his book too?

"Still pending is another Bar charge lodged against Martinez for publishing a book about the Arias case before it has gone to appeal."

The COA denied a motion to prevent JM's book coming out, so doubt that bar complaint will go anywhere. Nurmi was her attorney, not JM, if any complaint comes to anything, it will be Nurmi's book. Have no idea if complaints have been filed though.
 

LinasK

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Did anyone just see an article from a Boston newspaper- I saw on Facebook, that claimed Jodi is getting out on early release- no reasons given???
 

Hope4More

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Did anyone just see an article from a Boston newspaper- I saw on Facebook, that claimed Jodi is getting out on early release- no reasons given???


No worries. None of what was written there is true. Best yet, very few peeps even noticed that attempt to yank chains, draw in a crowd, and to reap fame and/ or fortune.
 

salberg7

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Regarding Juan, this "admonition" appears to be similar to a "verbal warning" for attorneys. I hope he weathers the storm or may even retire, who knows? He seems to have passion for his position, however, & may continue to work for the State of Arizona. Does anyone here think he will retire b/o this? He may feel that if he can't practice law in the manner he is accustomed to, that it's time to move on.
I can't see relitigating the cases from which the complaint arose as it was stated this admonition would not effect prior decisions especially if they were jury trials. At least I hope not, especially the Alexander murder trial. While his peers have complained that Juan wasn't professional in his quest for evidence, there certainly was enough in the Alexander murder in that the killer was convicted on evidence not conjecture.
Speaking for myself I would really be disappointed if the killer was granted a new trial b/o this, but we've all seen cases where the accused was given great latitude due to the constitutional rights of defendants.
I feel very strongly that the killer is a threat to society due her psychopathy and the manner in which she slaughtered Travis. That was not self defense.
I am hoping this admonition is not a point brought up by the killer's appellate lawyers and that it isn't found to have tarnished the case. I think that JSS gave the defense every consideration she could have granted to assure the killer received a fair trial.
 

geevee

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Hi, GeeveeSis! I suppose we'll need a new point of contention. Maybe I should plan an Arizona road trip with live Skype posts . ...Oh oh, I've got it: A Go Pro stream with point to point directives from the Sista Club.

Oh do it, do it, RickSis, I'll watch every minute of it!
 

RickshawFan

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Oh do it, do it, RickSis, I'll watch every minute of it!

It probably wouldn't even be that hard. And you wouldn't just be watching: you guys would be directing the trip in real time. We almost had that going with H4M's trip...
 

Hope4More

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https://drive.google.com/viewerng/v...t/icimages/news/martinezbarcharge12222015.pdf << the charges against Juan, hope he learns his lessons. Appears he has taken winning at all costs too far in some instances.


I suspect JM learned long ago that being a practicing DP prosecutor makes him a standing target for Kieffer type DP opponents and for AZ's defense bar, and that being a successful DP prosecutor makes his opponents froth at the mouth, and that being a successful DP prosecutor in high profile cases which made him a rock star, best-selling writer and "hero" nationally likely pushed his opponents past their point of endurance, lol.

The section of the original complaint relating to the 's trial was nothing short of spiteful , uninformed nonsense, and most of the rest was regurgitated , exaggerated complaints that have already been addressed and settled.

JM was slapped on the wrist, no more, and no doubt for reasons that are more political than substantially meaningful.
 

Hez

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I suspect JM learned long ago that being a practicing DP prosecutor makes him a standing target for Kieffer type DP opponents and for AZ's defense bar, and that being a successful DP prosecutor makes his opponents froth at the mouth, and that being a successful DP prosecutor in high profile cases which made him a rock star, best-selling writer and "hero" nationally likely pushed his opponents past their point of endurance, lol.

The section of the original complaint relating to the 's trial was nothing short of spiteful , uninformed nonsense, and most of the rest was regurgitated , exaggerated complaints that have already been addressed and settled.

JM was slapped on the wrist, no more, and no doubt for reasons that are more political than substantially meaningful.
I bet Kiefer had to wipe the drool off his keyboard after he wrote that article. He's been dying for years to stick it to Juan. :facepalm:
 

Hope4More

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I bet Kiefer had to wipe the drool off his keyboard after he wrote that article. He's been dying for years to stick it to Juan. :facepalm:


Lol. And he'll have to keep waiting, because it hasn't happened yet.

I will say, though, that the more I've read about all manner of corruption, political intrigue and the like at every level of AZ's judicial system, the more I can understand why so many defense attys in AZ feel paranoid that the system doesn't and won't guarantee their clients receive fair trials.
 

femto

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Hello guys, I would like to give my thoughts on the "gunshot first" theory which I believe was the first event of the murder of TA and some other things as well.

I want to begin with the "other things" - the emails in which Travis "abused" her, for example. I do believe, as I've seen some/most of you are of this opinion, is that the sex tape that Jodi recorded was for the purpose of blackmailing him. We know that Travis kept his private life private and we know that he cared for his reputation, and I know most of us, including me, do care for our own. The purpose of blackmailing him was simple - "take me to Cancun or I'm going to send this to every friend you have and any girlfriend you may have or pursue. Also, you better start treating me right or we're going to have problems...". In the texts we see that Travis is calling her names, but it's not for the sake of being abusive, but because he is hurt at her betrayal. His texts are meaningful and most of what was written there was the absolute truth that he finally realized. From what I know and read about Travis, he was kinda naive about people. He tried to see the good in them and when Chris himself was alerted by Jodi, TA dismissed him even though he had serious reasons to listen to his friend (the slashing of tires, stalking, etc). The only problem was that he realized it far too late, she was already on the move.

I think in these emails Jodi herself was hurt. And no, I don't mean emotionally, I think as the big narcissist she is, for Travis to be calling her such things was probably pretty humiliating. In her mind she can do no wrong. "Oh, I'm blackmailing you? It's your fault though.". Also, she probably felt that after the blackmail thing and Travis continuing to be defying and not giving into it, there was no turning back. She probably knew that their relationship from here on out won't be that of even a friendship. Travis would be wary for her and all her dreams of living that high life with him are now gone. Hell, she won't have any access to the connections that Travis had, and in the financial situation that she was in that would have been another nail in the coffin for her. She gambled and she lost. And I would say that she fantasized of killing someone, and most likely that someone was Travis for quite some time. The plan started after the falling out from the emails, but the fantasies were there in her mind, probably some time after Travis told her that he has no plans to marry her.

Her coming to his house: I think most people are judging Travis wrongly here. Yes, he kind accepted her into his house, but I think some people are forgetting that he said that he was afraid of her. A person that is afraid doesn't always act rationally. In such a situation Travis and many others would have tried to appease Jodi rather than be confrontational. You think if he said "**** you, Jodi, I don't want to see you" she would have just go away? She planned this and spent considerable amount of time making the preparations, I doubt she would have gone quietly into the night. Anyway, after the initial shock of seeing her, Jodi probably tried to put him at ease with a couple of things: First, she gave him the money that she owed him. Second, she gave him those CD's. Third, she probably gave him a copy of the sex tape and promised him that she won't ever bother him again, that she learned her mistake, etc. That would have put him at ease. And being the naive person that he was, he believed her and dropped his guard down. But not completely.

From the shower pics you can see that Travis is not exactly comfortable or happy to be posing. He seems kinda like "Well, let's get this over with so you can leave". He probably wanted her out before that so he can prepare for his trip but she nagged him until he accepted. And at that point Travis was probably thinking "Whatever makes you leave.". But you can see that he isn't happy, joyful or anything of that sort when the pictures are taken, exactly the opposite.



Now for the "gunshot first" theory. I truly believe that Jodi planned to kill him and she planned to kill him while he was in the shower - shot in the head, the water will wash any evidence off him, no blood - no mess. Easy. No struggle and no risk. The clean-up job would have been extremely easy and she would have been out of the in less than 10 min. A very good plan, but a smart person would know that most of the time not everything goes according to plan. . She would have been caught regardless though, even if she killed him the way she wanted because she made some other mistakes - like deleting photos from a camera thinking they can't be recovered (she is pretty dumb, imo). The reasons that I believe the gunshot was first is for a number of reasons.
One of those is that at the start of the trial the Prosecution held onto the theory that the gunshot was first, but when Jodi decided to accommodate the gun in her self-defense claim, the game changed. So instead of trying to explain why it shooting him wasn't self-defense, they changed their tactics so Jodi couldn't adapt. Esteban Flores, a detective that IMO is a pretty smart guy. During his interview with her he immediately cut through her bull*hit and made her change her story numerous time which was damning for her. That same detective said that he spoke to Horn and they both believed that the gunshot came first. He later changed his statement to fit Martinez's narrative, however he had no reason to lie when he said the shooting was first. And this guy wouldn't have been wrong about such a thing. Too smart, too experienced.

And Kevin Horn wasn't convincing at all on the witness stand on whether the bullet entered Travis brain, I think he had the exact opposite effect on me - I became even more convinced that it affect the brain. I mean, Horn said that the bullet would have made him cough blood at the sink, it would have dazed him enough that he wouldn't be able to defend himself properly. The pain itself would have been exruciating, rendering him unable to think clearly or act in a more concious manner, leaving him defenseless to Jodi's attacks. Also, the trajectory that the bullet made fits perfectly with the last pose of Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias position (you can see that Jodi is standing not far from him). The weapon that she used was weak and has a knack for jamming regurarly. Another reason. We also know that Jodi likes to throw a few bits of truths here and there when she talks. For example I believe that she told the truth when she said Travis was screaming, walking on all fours, making strange sounds (probably when his throat was cut) and a few more things from the ninja story, only that she played the ninja's and not the hero. She never once wavered from the fact that she shot him. And she shot him first all right, only the problem was that he wasn't attacking her, wasn't doing a linebacker pose or whatever else lie she could think of adding there to make it spicy.

Aside from all that, him going to the sink is another indicator that he was shot first. The reason is that (and I took that idea from another guy in the forum, can't remember his name) with a shot to the head he wouldn't have been able to see his wound, so he went to the sink to see where she hit him and what can he do to "fix" his wound. With a stab to the heart he would have known where the wound is and would have taken the necessary steps to minimize the blood loss (take the towel or whatever). And with a stab to the heart or anywhere else he would have gotten the f*ck outta there, he wouldn't stay and look himself in the mirror, there was no reason to. It's just a natural human response. And we know that at this point he gets a little breathing space to cough the blood in the sink and look at himself, so it's logical to assume that Arias isn't close around to continue stabbing him. At that point I think Arias just bolted out of there to find a knife (purse or kitchen, doesn't matter) and came back to finish the job while he was looking himself in the mirror. He probably saw her coming and tried to run down the corridor at that point.

Some may say "But how did the shell casing get to the sink?". Well, I think either it was put there by Jodi (unlikely, tbh) or it was pushed around by one of them in their struggle. We've already seen this happen with the camera - it dropped right outside the shower and ended almost at the end of the corridor. And It's extremely unlikely that Travis or Jodi cared about moving the camera, they had other jobs that were more important - Travis trying to survive and Jodi trying to kill him.


Now why do I think she did not use the knife first? First off, to use the knife she had to go closer to Travis. And we know that Travis was already wary of her and didn't look very happy in those posing pics. I doubt he would have been very happy that she was coming close to him. I heard somewhere that Travis practiced a fighting sport as a kid, I don't know if it's true, but if it is - I did boxing for a year 6 years ago and I still haven't forgotten anything that I have learned from it - proper stance, proper punches, position, movement. It just stays with you. Anyway, even if he wasn't competent in any fighting sports, he was twice as big as Jodi and was working out, he was a pretty active guy. In such a situation I can't see how Jodi would have the strength to overpower him. Yes, she is strong as Ryan Burns said, but not that strong. Even if she managed to stab him first right in the heart, he would have still been able to react due to his adrenaline. He would have caught her if she was so close to him. And let's not pretend that the knife to the heart was a purposeful move on her part. I doubt Jodi knows human anatomy or is smart enough to know the general area of where exactly the heart is.

And the position that he was in wasn't a good position for Jodi to use the knife. I don't care if she is capable of using both hands, that's not a position that she would be able to kill him before he reacts. How would she draw the knife without him noticing? The knife obviously isn't a pocket knife, it will be hard to hide. Jodi also doesn't strike me as the brave kind - I doubt she had the courage to get up close and personal with TA and kill him like that. Besides, why take the gun anyway if you're going to stab him to death? For control? You don't need control if you're going to stab him. If he sees the knife he is forced to defend himself because he would know what is going to happen. You don't need to use the gun for control and the knife for the attack because that way he is going to be more prepared for your attack unlike in a scenario where you hide the knife right until the attack itself.

Also, one thing that has been bothering me is: what the hell is wrong with the picture in which it appears that Jodi is dragging Travis? His head is lifted, his arms are lifted, but his legs appear to be in a resting position. It appears that he is dead, but we know that Travis didn't die until his throat was slashed and in that picture we can clearly see that his head is up which is highly unlikely if his neck was cut mainlyh because he was almost beheaded. And the blood that's coming down his back doesn't appear to be as that of a neck wound, but more like blood coming from his mouth and nose area. Also, I don't see any wounds on his back or his neck/head area.




So we get to the end: was the shot to the head or the stabbing the more cruel killing? Honestly, I've seen many people saying that the stabbing-throat slash-gunshot was more cruel, but I beg to differ. The gunshot just proves how cold-blooded she was, how she absolutely had no personal attachment to Travis. It's like they never had any friendly or romantic relationship, it's like she didn't just sleep with him, it's like they never knew each other or were close to each other. She didn't have an ounce of love towards him. When the gun jammed (presumably) she had an opportunity to call this off, a last chance if you will. And she didn't. Instead she decided to get a knife and finish the job. That just proves how much of a nutjob she was.

While in the "stabbing first" it looks more like a crime of passion than the cold-blooded murder which it was. It looks like she had enough and snapped. In that case it also appears that she never had an opportunity to stop her slaughter after the first stab because she was in the heat of the moment, unlike the one with the gun in which she had enough time to think this through while she was going for the knife to continue her "work".

That's the mental part, but the physical? Way more cruel, no doubt about that. It's not even a question. In this scenario he would have experienced all 3 killings - he would have felt the shot, the stabs and the slicing of his throat.

A gunshot to the head would have put Travis in an immediate, incapacitating pain that would have completely paralyzed him mentally and physically. Unable to think or react physically because of the pain and shock of it he would have been unable to defend himself in any sort of way (evidenced by the fact that Jodi managed to get away only with a scratch on her finger from the whole ordeal). Can you imagine when you're in such a state of pain and confusion to still be chased down and stabbed? All the adrenaline of the world can't numb that pain. With a shot to the head after he was dead... there was no more pain for him. And I might add that after the slicing of the throat I don't see any reason for Jodi to shoot him, he was already dead. There is nothing left that she can do to him.


Anyway, these are my thoughts. It's been a preeeety long post, but I just wanted to share them because it's been nagging me for some time to type this.
 

Niner

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:welcome6: femto to WS!
 

geevee

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Hello guys, I would like to give my thoughts on the "gunshot first" theory which I believe was the first event of the murder of TA and some other things as well.

(Respectfully snipped due to length)

Graphic description warning

It's good to have you join the conversation Femto; I can agree with the gunshot-first theory, I've never been married to either as arguments can be made for both, but the gunshot-first makes more sense of the totality of the crime scene/murder. as you so ably pointed out (the closeness she'd need to begin with the knife, the sink area, also the area over by the toilet closet, if she came back to him standing at the sink dazed from the gunshot she'd likely start stabbing his back and be able to get him on the floor near that door before he was able to attempt to flee down the hall).

To your point about what's wrong with the 5:32:16 'pant leg' pic, if you look very closely at the digital one included in JM's book, you may agree that the dark area isn't Travis' head at all (no ear, no head wounds, no upper back wounds) but is blur caused by her bare foot moving upwards, and the 'foot' in the background is more probably his hand - I think the blood/wound we see is the neck wound moments after she inflicted it.

I've always thought if the gunshot were first it was even more cruel as she was stabbing a very seriously injured, defenseless person, JM changing his sequence shortly before trial seemed mainly to be strategic (imo) as he could make either theory plausible to the jury.

Oh, one other thing, in the 1st accidental pic I see what I think is a drop of blood flying near the lower corner of the shower door, as well as his feet moving while his arm appears still on his knee, this could also be a sign that the gunshot had just occurred.

Anyways, welcome!
 
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