Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

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Reelz has renewed its National Enquirer Investigates TV show for a second season. National Enquirer Investigates, season two, will feature stories on Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, Rihanna, Chris Brown, Jodi Arias, and Charles Manson. The second season premieres on Reelz Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 9:00pm ET and 6:00pm PT.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/national-enquirer-investigates-season-two-renewal-reelz/


Just shoot me now please.

:scream:
 

pocketaccent

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I don't know if anyone is lurking here anymore.

I also don't know what got into me but I began to go over this case again a few days ago.:eek:

Ryan Burns' testimony:
[video=youtube;_mG-HoiBA1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mG-HoiBA1k[/video]

June 4th, 2008
-Ryan went to training 7 pm to 9:30 pm.
-Went to Cheesecake Factory afterwards, arrived ~10 pm
-Received a call from the ~ 10:30 pm, conversation lasted 30 min - 1 hour, or longer according to Ryan.
- called back after awhile. He doesn't remember when. Ryan figured she was away 7-8 hours away at that point.
- arrived 10 am - 11 am on June 5th.

Ummm...
The last 'shower' photo is time stamped @ 5:33 pm.
If Ryan received the call at 10:30 pm, the is calling him at 9:30 pm her time wherever she ended up calling him from (Arizona, Nevada). Utah is 1 hour ahead.
The murder in progress is at 5:33 pm.
The call to Ryan is at around 9:30 pm.
So 4 hours to finish the kill, shove him in the shower, clean up, preen herself, and drive to Kingman area. I don't think this is possible, adrenaline or not.

My conclusion is that Travis' camera time was off. He was killed much earlier that day IMO.
 

Niner

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Posted by Tulessa in the Sidebar:

Bar charge dismissed against Arias prosecutor Juan Martinez.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ias/100189130/

snippet:
That committee dismissed the charge April 3, saying, "This matter is being dismissed as respondent obtained permission from his employer to disseminate information relative to his representation in the state v. Arias case. Similarly, while his book made general reference to the existence of sealed testimony and exhibits, the references did not contain specific content and was, in some circumstances, publicly available despite the court order(s) sealing the testimony and exhibits."
The dismissal went on, however, to say that "his decision and timing to publish is extremely concerning" because of the extrajudicial comments he made, and that he would have been better to wait until the case was completely over.
"Finally," the order said, "the perception created when a prosecutor attempts to immediately profit from his participation in a high profile case is also very concerning. The public expects much more from prosecutors and the book release shortly after the trial significantly risks undermining those expectations."
Arias' defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi, also published a book about the case, which revealed details that were unmistakably in violation of attorney ethics. Nurmi agreed to disbarment in November rather than face a disciplinary hearing.


"Hallelujah" :juanettes: :juanettes:

attachment.php

 

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deedee21

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How long will it last? For as long as it takes to catch her stealing.
 

geevee

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Posted by Tulessa in the Sidebar:

Bar charge dismissed against Arias prosecutor Juan Martinez.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ias/100189130/

snippet:
That committee dismissed the charge April 3, saying, "This matter is being dismissed as respondent obtained permission from his employer to disseminate information relative to his representation in the state v. Arias case. Similarly, while his book made general reference to the existence of sealed testimony and exhibits, the references did not contain specific content and was, in some circumstances, publicly available despite the court order(s) sealing the testimony and exhibits."
The dismissal went on, however, to say that "his decision and timing to publish is extremely concerning" because of the extrajudicial comments he made, and that he would have been better to wait until the case was completely over.
"Finally," the order said, "the perception created when a prosecutor attempts to immediately profit from his participation in a high profile case is also very concerning. The public expects much more from prosecutors and the book release shortly after the trial significantly risks undermining those expectations."
Arias' defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi, also published a book about the case, which revealed details that were unmistakably in violation of attorney ethics. Nurmi agreed to disbarment in November rather than face a disciplinary hearing.


"Hallelujah" :juanettes: :juanettes:

attachment.php


---
Other ethics charges are pending against Martinez.

In September, the attorney-discipline probable-cause committee issued an admonition and recommended that Martinez be placed on probation for one year, alleging misconduct and unprofessional behavior over the course of at least 11 murder cases, including the Arias case.

Martinez appealed the admonition and asked for a formal hearing before the Supreme Court presiding disciplinary judge.
---

I hope they'll stream the hearing, we've seen how good he is at prosecuting, I would like to see his defense style.
 

geevee

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I don't know if anyone is lurking here anymore.

I also don't know what got into me but I began to go over this case again a few days ago.:eek:

Ryan Burns' testimony:
[video=youtube;_mG-HoiBA1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mG-HoiBA1k[/video]

June 4th, 2008
-Ryan went to training 7 pm to 9:30 pm.
-Went to Cheesecake Factory afterwards, arrived ~10 pm
-Received a call from the ~ 10:30 pm, conversation lasted 30 min - 1 hour, or longer according to Ryan.
- called back after awhile. He doesn't remember when. Ryan figured she was away 7-8 hours away at that point.
- arrived 10 am - 11 am on June 5th.

Ummm...
The last 'shower' photo is time stamped @ 5:33 pm.
If Ryan received the call at 10:30 pm, the is calling him at 9:30 pm her time wherever she ended up calling him from (Arizona, Nevada). Utah is 1 hour ahead.
The murder in progress is at 5:33 pm.
The call to Ryan is at around 9:30 pm.
So 4 hours to finish the kill, shove him in the shower, clean up, preen herself, and drive to Kingman area. I don't think this is possible, adrenaline or not.

My conclusion is that Travis' camera time was off. He was killed much earlier that day IMO.

Pocket - I agree, not enough time for her to get to Kingman and call Ryan at 9:30, esp. given she would have had to have left Travis' at the height of rush hour traffic (if the camera time were correct). Not to mention how wrong the light in the pics look for 5:30 in early June in Mesa.
 

Wing Ding

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Pocket - I agree, not enough time for her to get to Kingman and call Ryan at 9:30, esp. given she would have had to have left Travis' at the height of rush hour traffic (if the camera time were correct). Not to mention how wrong the light in the pics look for 5:30 in early June in Mesa.
Has there been any speculation as to what time she may have launched her attack on Travis?

For her to be in Kingman to call Ryan at 9.30 pm, she would have had to have left Mesa by about 6.30 pm, but I always thought she was taking a huge risk by killing Travis (and then having to clean up and do laundry) at a time when people typically come home from work (after 5.00 pm). I would think she would want to be out of the house by 4.00 that afternoon to avoid being seen by the roommates.

And remember Chris Hughes had sent Travis a text at 12.30 pm that seemed to have been returned by The Killer, not Travis himself. So was Travis sleeping at 12.30 or had he already been killed? And if the timestamps are off on all the shower pics, the timestamps are also off on all the nudies that were taken four hours prior.

She could have very easily waited for the roommates to leave for work in the morning before sneaking upstairs to wake Travis up, take nudies with him and then lure him into the shower for her Calvin Klein photo shoot, then kill him, clean up, put a bandage on the finger she cut slicing an apple in the kitchen, return Chris Hughes' text message, do some laundry, brush her teeth and leave sometime in the afternoon. But when?

Does anyone remember what month Travis bought his camera? Could the time have been set correctly at the time of purchase, and then by June the timestamp was ahead by one hour?

As an aside... I paid cash for an item at Sam's Club the other day. When I returned the item the next day, the gal at the Customer Service desk scribed a line through the item description on the receipt. I could only think to myself, "if only the customer service gal at Costco in Salinas was as thorough". lol

Wait a minute... I came here to read about everyone's thoughts on the Casey Anthony mini-series. How'd I end up here???
 

Niner

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Wing Ding said:
Wait a minute... I came here to read about everyone's thoughts on the Casey Anthony mini-series. How'd I end up here???

Mixed up the two killers by mistake?? :lol:
 

geevee

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Has there been any speculation as to what time she may have launched her attack on Travis?

For her to be in Kingman to call Ryan at 9.30 pm, she would have had to have left Mesa by about 6.30 pm, but I always thought she was taking a huge risk by killing Travis (and then having to clean up and do laundry) at a time when people typically come home from work (after 5.00 pm). I would think she would want to be out of the house by 4.00 that afternoon to avoid being seen by the roommates.

And remember Chris Hughes had sent Travis a text at 12.30 pm that seemed to have been returned by The Killer, not Travis himself. So was Travis sleeping at 12.30 or had he already been killed? And if the timestamps are off on all the shower pics, the timestamps are also off on all the nudies that were taken four hours prior.

She could have very easily waited for the roommates to leave for work in the morning before sneaking upstairs to wake Travis up, take nudies with him and then lure him into the shower for her Calvin Klein photo shoot, then kill him, clean up, put a bandage on the finger she cut slicing an apple in the kitchen, return Chris Hughes' text message, do some laundry, brush her teeth and leave sometime in the afternoon. But when?

Does anyone remember what month Travis bought his camera? Could the time have been set correctly at the time of purchase, and then by June the timestamp was ahead by one hour?

As an aside... I paid cash for an item at Sam's Club the other day. When I returned the item the next day, the gal at the Customer Service desk scribed a line through the item description on the receipt. I could only think to myself, "if only the customer service gal at Costco in Salinas was as thorough". lol

Wait a minute... I came here to read about everyone's thoughts on the Casey Anthony mini-series. How'd I end up here???

There were 3 activities on Travis' laptop that afternoon according to Flores' testimony - 3:34 p.m., 4:19 p.m., and 4:54 p.m. - but, his laptop's time is also in question, during the hard drive hearings JM said it was ahead by an hour (remember all the discussion about the Spybot file activating at the same time as one of the nudes was time stamped [1:44 p.m.]?) so if the last thing she did was something on his laptop that puts her leaving his house right around 4:00 p.m., plenty of time to get up to Kingman and call Ryan by 9:30.

Travis bought his camera in April, 22nd or 23rd I think.
 

femto

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Sorry to reply after such a long time. I've been meaning to since forever, I guess I just got burned out from this case.

(Respectfully snipped due to length)

Graphic description warning

It's good to have you join the conversation Femto; I can agree with the gunshot-first theory, I've never been married to either as arguments can be made for both, but the gunshot-first makes more sense of the totality of the crime scene/murder. as you so ably pointed out (the closeness she'd need to begin with the knife, the sink area, also the area over by the toilet closet, if she came back to him standing at the sink dazed from the gunshot she'd likely start stabbing his back and be able to get him on the floor near that door before he was able to attempt to flee down the hall).
But also, IMO, because going at Travis with a knife is just way too risky, especially in a wet environment where things could get slippery real fast and given Travis' size and strength compared to Jodi, the tables could have turned very easily on her and she would have known that. Furthermore, this wasn't some crime of passion that the crime scene would suggest, this was a cold blooded murder that she planned for a long time. And, as I said in my previous post, knives are extremely messy. It doesn't make sense for Jodi to lure Travis into the shower just so she could go ahead and do all that mess in the house. Travis was a warrior, he took so much punishment and made her chase him so much that by the end of it she couldn't clean anything out of that house. If he died nice and quiet in the shower, she would have never gotten caught and we'll probably be discussing who killed Travis and never seen Jodi in jail.


To your point about what's wrong with the 5:32:16 'pant leg' pic, if you look very closely at the digital one included in JM's book, you may agree that the dark area isn't Travis' head at all (no ear, no head wounds, no upper back wounds) but is blur caused by her bare foot moving upwards, and the 'foot' in the background is more probably his hand - I think the blood/wound we see is the neck wound moments after she inflicted it.
Hm... I don't know. The thing in the distance, to me, is definitely his foot. There is no way that is his arm, his body position and the manner in which his right arm is raised (definitely an arm judging by the size and shape) doesn't suggest that it's any other way. The thing about the head - it looks like the place that his head should be judging by his body position, it doesn't look like shadow or a blur to me. But it seems strange that there are no cuts on the head, and no blood coming out from there. Also for the blood, I'm no blood spatter expert, but the blood that's coming down towards his back definitely seems like a nose blood to me.

What if this isn't the moment she cut Travis' throat? What if this is the moment in which she continued to stab Travis in the chest while he is trying to grab the knife (judging by how his right arm is raised) and the immediately after she turned him on his back (or he crawled away) and then she cut his throat?

Because in that picture, to me, it doesn't appear that Travis is dying, he still appears to be fighting her off and his throat doesn't appear to be cut off given his head's position, the blood that's coming out and the way that his right arm is raised. His natural reaction in the case of the throat cut would have been to quickly put his hand on his wound and try to stop the bleeding, but he doesn't do that. IMO, this photo was taken as she was continuously stabbing him in the chest while he was trying to defend himself. Shortly thereafter she finished him.

I've always thought if the gunshot were first it was even more cruel as she was stabbing a very seriously injured, defenseless person, JM changing his sequence shortly before trial seemed mainly to be strategic (imo) as he could make either theory plausible to the jury.
Yes, it was definitely more cruel. A gunshot like that to his face would have hurt like hell and the shock that came with it.... can't imagine the pain he would have gone through at that moment. Not to mention the utter horror of seeing a crazy psychopath charging at you with a knife while you're unable to defend yourself because of the pain and disorientation. As for JM, I think he changed the sequence because most people are just stupid, and the jury would have been no different. If he went with the gun first theory, the defense would have tried to spin it off like "Oh she was merciful, she didn't want to kill Travis. He went after her and the gun just fired"... Yeah right. But there are some people that would have believed her, hell there are "people" now that believe her crazy account of the events. The jury didn't even give her the death penalty even after all she did.

What JM tried to do is put the "self-defence" scenario to rest by proving that the shot in the head came last, after he was dead. The killing was already brutal enough without the "gun first", so there was just no need to even go there. But there is no doubt in my mind that what Jodi did in reality was way more brutal than what JM presented (crazy, I know).


Oh, one other thing, in the 1st accidental pic I see what I think is a drop of blood flying near the lower corner of the shower door, as well as his feet moving while his arm appears still on his knee, this could also be a sign that the gunshot had just occurred.

Anyways, welcome!
Who knows? He appears rested to me, but probably not at ease.

Thank you.

So 4 hours to finish the kill, shove him in the shower, clean up, preen herself, and drive to Kingman area. I don't think this is possible, adrenaline or not.

My conclusion is that Travis' camera time was off. He was killed much earlier that day IMO.



We have to remember that the duration of the killing was 2 minutes. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible by any means. Also, from what I remember the (car wash, was it?) that she went to, the guy said that the car had stains of something resembling blood. So it's not like she spend a lot of time in the house cleaning herself (she must have thought that one of Travis' roomates may catch her so she cleaned herself fast and went right out).
 

pocketaccent

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We have to remember that the duration of the killing was 2 minutes. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible by any means. Also, from what I remember the (car wash, was it?) that she went to, the guy said that the car had stains of something resembling blood. So it's not like she spend a lot of time in the house cleaning herself (she must have thought that one of Travis' roomates may catch her so she cleaned herself fast and went right out).

Respectfully snipped,

-Dragging photo is @ 5:33 pm
-She called Ryan @ 9:30 pm
-Queensborough Ave, Mesa to Kingman travel time is 3 h 57 min to 4 h 57 min depending on the route per google.

Even if she left Mesa at 6 pm after the dragging photo at 5:33 pm (which I highly doubt she could have finished the kill and cleaned up that quickly), no way she could reach near Kingman at 9:30 pm.

I'm quite certain the camera time were wrong, but less certain on by how many hours.

Question I have is - why didn't she reveal the true time of murder? Why was it advantageous to keep the wrong time?
I think one of many possible reason is that she did not want to admit to snooping on T's computer in the afternoon
 

femto

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Respectfully snipped,

-Dragging photo is @ 5:33 pm
-She called Ryan @ 9:30 pm
-Queensborough Ave, Mesa to Kingman travel time is 3 h 57 min to 4 h 57 min depending on the route per google.

Even if she left Mesa at 6 pm after the dragging photo at 5:33 pm (which I highly doubt she could have finished the kill and cleaned up that quickly), no way she could reach near Kingman at 9:30 pm.

I'm quite certain the camera time were wrong, but less certain on by how many hours.

Question I have is - why didn't she reveal the true time of murder? Why was it advantageous to keep the wrong time?
I think one of many possible reason is that she did not want to admit to snooping on T's computer in the afternoon

I got different results from three different sites (including Google maps) all pointing at the same thing - approx. 3 h hours 24 min, 3 hours 18 min and 3 hours and 31 min (The Google Maps one). Depending how lucky she was she may get even earlier, it's not impossible.

30 min is more than enough for a sloppy cleaning (judging by all the evidence) and getting out of the house. We have to remember here that Jodi was, presumably, in a hurry to leave since she could have easily been gotten caught. I don't for a second think that she stayed there, showered, cleaned herself perfectly and then walked out calmly.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the camera, you may be right, however I don't think it's impossible for Jodi to reach Kingman in time.
 

pocketaccent

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I got different results from three different sites (including Google maps) all pointing at the same thing - approx. 3 h hours 24 min, 3 hours 18 min and 3 hours and 31 min (The Google Maps one). Depending how lucky she was she may get even earlier, it's not impossible.

30 min is more than enough for a sloppy cleaning (judging by all the evidence) and getting out of the house. We have to remember here that Jodi was, presumably, in a hurry to leave since she could have easily been gotten caught. I don't for a second think that she stayed there, showered, cleaned herself perfectly and then walked out calmly.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the camera, you may be right, however I don't think it's impossible for Jodi to reach Kingman in time.

At 3:48 pm Arizona time, I type in 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman, I get

4h 0 min via US-93N
4 h 8 min via I-10W and US-93 N
5 h 14 min via I-10 W
(Travel time changes depending on when you search. ie, slow traffic vs heavy traffic hour)

I think you also have to include T's address instead of just Mesa since it is a big city :)
 

geevee

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<respectfully snipped to concentrate on the pic evidence>

Hm... I don't know. The thing in the distance, to me, is definitely his foot. There is no way that is his arm, his body position and the manner in which his right arm is raised (definitely an arm judging by the size and shape) doesn't suggest that it's any other way. The thing about the head - it looks like the place that his head should be judging by his body position, it doesn't look like shadow or a blur to me. But it seems strange that there are no cuts on the head, and no blood coming out from there. Also for the blood, I'm no blood spatter expert, but the blood that's coming down towards his back definitely seems like a nose blood to me.

What if this isn't the moment she cut Travis' throat? What if this is the moment in which she continued to stab Travis in the chest while he is trying to grab the knife (judging by how his right arm is raised) and the immediately after she turned him on his back (or he crawled away) and then she cut his throat?

Because in that picture, to me, it doesn't appear that Travis is dying, he still appears to be fighting her off and his throat doesn't appear to be cut off given his head's position, the blood that's coming out and the way that his right arm is raised. His natural reaction in the case of the throat cut would have been to quickly put his hand on his wound and try to stop the bleeding, but he doesn't do that. IMO, this photo was taken as she was continuously stabbing him in the chest while he was trying to defend himself. Shortly thereafter she finished him.

Illustration is my best defense. ;)l I enlarged, swapped the colors, rotated to the left and cropped the relevant section of 5:32:16 - you can see through the "head" to skin color underneath and that the "hair" is actually blur (a phone screen may be too small to see the details, a computer or laptop monitor would be best). If you look very closely, you may be able to make out toenails in the blur.

53216bookLrotatedSwapCrop2.jpg

I have given thought to the possibility that she was stabbing his chest at the time of this pic, but because I believe we're seeing his chin above the neck cut (and not shoulder) I'm unsure that could be the case.

Also, the blood in front of the toilet room makes me think the chest wounds had already occurred; granted that could have been blood from the gunshot but because of its location on the floor it's reasonable he was on his chest with her attacking his back (second set of back stabs) and back of head. I don't think she delivered the head wounds while he was standing as she chipped bone and that takes a lot of force, I think he was on the ground when she did those.

Whether it's a foot or hand in the background, as much as I can enlarge it for detail I cannot see toenails on it, making me think it may well be the side of a hand (and if that is his chin/neck, it can't be his foot). Whichever it is though, it seems to belong to someone mortally wounded by its limp appearance.

Oh, I fully understand the case burnout, I had to take some time away from it (and here) myself.
 

femto

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At 3:48 pm Arizona time, I type in 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman, I get

4h 0 min via US-93N
4 h 8 min via I-10W and US-93 N
5 h 14 min via I-10 W
(Travel time changes depending on when you search. ie, slow traffic vs heavy traffic hour)

I think you also have to include T's address instead of just Mesa since it is a big city :)



Checked this again. I got two 3 h and 32 mins and one 3 hours and 34 min (all from Travis' house to Kingman.). However I'm curious on another thing - can we really put that much stock into the exact time that Jodi called him? And, since I don't remember everything about his testimony, did he say that she called him exactly at 10:30 pm or did he say something like "around that time"?

<respectfully snipped to concentrate on the pic evidence>



Illustration is my best defense. ;)l I enlarged, swapped the colors, rotated to the left and cropped the relevant section of 5:32:16 - you can see through the "head" to skin color underneath and that the "hair" is actually blur (a phone screen may be too small to see the details, a computer or laptop monitor would be best). If you look very closely, you may be able to make out toenails in the blur.



I have given thought to the possibility that she was stabbing his chest at the time of this pic, but because I believe we're seeing his chin above the neck cut (and not shoulder) I'm unsure that could be the case.

Also, the blood in front of the toilet room makes me think the chest wounds had already occurred; granted that could have been blood from the gunshot but because of its location on the floor it's reasonable he was on his chest with her attacking his back (second set of back stabs) and back of head. I don't think she delivered the head wounds while he was standing as she chipped bone and that takes a lot of force, I think he was on the ground when she did those.

Whether it's a foot or hand in the background, as much as I can enlarge it for detail I cannot see toenails on it, making me think it may well be the side of a hand (and if that is his chin/neck, it can't be his foot). Whichever it is though, it seems to belong to someone mortally wounded by its limp appearance.

Oh, I fully understand the case burnout, I had to take some time away from it (and here) myself.
Very interesting. In the picture you've posted the back of his head does look like a shadow, but are you sure that the swapping of colors you've done didn't create that shadow? What I mean is that the image quality was already low enough (even the Juan Martinez one) and that area (presumably his head) is almost pitch-black (except that part that's green which even in the other photos seems lighter). I just can't see how Jodi's foot can create a round shadow like that while obscuring Travis' head completely.

I really don't think that is his chin, it's too small and the blood that is coming out wouldn't fit the pattern. The blood can't be coming from the top of his head. Maybe if his head was tilted somehow to the left, but that wouldn't make sense considering his body position.

The foot is what's bothering me. It's definitely a foot (IMO). It's shaped like a foot, it's in the distance (his hands or any other part of his body won't be able to reach that far) and you can clearly see his big toe. However I can't for the life of me understand what's going on. As I said in my first post, Travis appears to be alive, yet you're absolutely correct, his foot does seem limp. My only explanation is that the camera took that photo while they were still in motion (duh, obviously) and it just came off like that. But maybe at this point Travis is way too out of it and his body started to give up? This is presumably before Jodi delivered the final blow to him and by that time Travis had already endured enough punishment for a lifetime. His arm, though, indicates that he is still fighting.. But...

What if this is the point that Jodi grabs his arm and turns him on his back? Do you know what's the distance in this photo compared to when she cut his throat? I know it's a little further down the hall but how much further?

I agree on the rest of what you said.
 
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