Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

Discussion in 'Travis Alexander Trial - The State vs. Jodi Arias' started by Coldpizza, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. geevee

    geevee Registered Stickie

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    I'm hanging right there with you in everything you said, Sister Hope. I too wish you could rewrite the ending to this, it just pulls so hard at my heart to see how relentless she was and know there isn't anything we could do to change the outcome.
     
  2. geevee

    geevee Registered Stickie

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    Yeah, I think he wanted her to know he understood what she was up to and wasn't going to let it bother him. I don't know how he tolerated such game playing, it would have driven me right up the wall.
     
  3. salberg7

    salberg7 Well-Known Member

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    But nonetheless Travis tolerated the POS. Why couldn’t he just cut her off?
    Because poor Travis was a crowd pleaser & maybe due to his upbringing (abandonment, insecurity) he could or would not willingly hurt anyone, including the killer. Until the last days of his life when he finally was able to verbalize to her that he had enough of her lies & games. And too late.
    Which makes it so sad to read these texts because he wasn’t dealing with an average person - he was dealing with a sociopath/psychopath who took full advantage of his insecurities. Killer reeled him in with sex as she knew that was something she could hold over his head.
    As far as getting pregnant I don’t think they had as much sex as she stated for that to be a possibility, especially in the last 6 months of his life.
    Poor Travis. If only he knew the evil he was dealing with.
    All this confirms my opinion that the killer surprised Travis on June 4. I do not think he knew she was coming. She called him a few times to assess who was in the house that day, and just showed up. She couldn’t take the risk of anyone knowing she was coming or else Travis may have shared that with one of his friends (CL? Aaron?).
    Confirms also just how premeditated Travis’ murder was. Classic “if I can’t have you, no one can”& she made sure of that.
    She is exactly where she belongs - in prison for life. I wonder if any of her psych evaluations stated that she was a danger to society due to her psychopathy. Also, I am curious as to what medication she was taking during the trial or what was recommended for her.
    I will say it again - poor Travis. He didn’t know how deep in her web he was.
     
  4. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    Working hard on March & April so I can finally get to May & June. ;)

    But, a quick reply to your question of why Travis "tolerated" the POS.....

    Why he might have done so is related to part of what I'm writing up. Yes, I'm sure the horrible abuse Travis suffered as a child had something -even much- to do with how he dealt with the POS.

    But... for context. The same question might be asked of why Darryl Brewer didn't cut her off altogether, especially after she cost him their house & no doubt his credit rating, and after he waited for her to work out how they would be together, all the while she was getting baptized Mormon and deciding she was going to marry Travis.

    And, why was it that MM didn't run like hell away from her after the POS invaded HIS privacy, and chased down & confronted Bianca, after he and the POS had broken up? Then snuck into his house & slept in his bed while he wasn't there?

    Not only did MM not run away from her, he was willing to perjure himself in a DP trial in order to save her psycho arse.

    TA had his own reasons for not being able to escape the POS's clutches, but the reasons that were particular to him don't explain in whole why he wasn't able to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  5. Sharla

    Sharla New Member

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  6. Sharla

    Sharla New Member

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    Hello :) I have been following, watching the trial videos and reading about this case for years..I just wanted to tearfully (yet smiling) say how amazing and wonderful you all are for your dedication, respect, and tenacity. Thank you, for helping me understand how that evil, POS did what she did and why...
     
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  7. Ktblair

    Ktblair Well-Known Member

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    Yes! All these things you've stated have been bugging me as well.how was she able to have such a hold on her exes the whole time?! I would also love to see texts and messages from December or before when she was caught under his tree and sneaking through the doggie door.that had to have been interesting conversation between Travis and his friends
     
  8. TrialWatcher

    TrialWatcher Active Member

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    Salberg7, "But nonetheless Travis tolerated the POS. Why couldn’t he just cut her off?
    Because poor Travis was a crowd pleaser & maybe due to his upbringing (abandonment, insecurity) he could or would not willingly hurt anyone, including the killer."

    I completely agree that she surprised him and Travis did not expect her. Also, I agree that she probably made a brief call to establish if Travis was alone. Arias was good at playing the victim. She was also good at manipulating and flattering men. This pattern is seen in past relationships.

    Regarding Travis, it was largely Arias that emphasised his upbringing. She immediately tried to use that (plus religiosity) to paint a negative picture to Detective Flores The good detective was having none of it, much to her irritation. Sure, Travis spoke about his past and used it, but in a positive way. He wanted to inspire others. It saddens me sometimes to see so much emphasis placed on his past when he wasn't very different from most young men. Was he hypocritical regarding his faith and sex? Yes. Arias was more so as she couldn't give a damn about religion. Her interest was a ploy. Same with her commitment to PPR. It was all about getting close to Travis.

    What she offered was sexual availability and flattery. That is a pretty potent combination and Travis soaked both up at times. He knew that she was obsessed with him and this must have ben troubling as he did not return her feelings. I agree that he didn't want to hurt her but God, she became an enormous embarrassment and pain in the ass.

    Arias hoped to use (rare) examples of bad language and Madonna-whore type attitude towards sex and women to damage his credibility. I have said before that my initial impression of Travis was not favourable. Juan Martinez brought him to life and created a more accurate and kind picture of his this young man. Good questions re the medication during the trial, Salberg7. Migraine tablets was one we know of.
     
  9. TrialWatcher

    TrialWatcher Active Member

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    MM is an intriguing part of the puzzle. So many unknowns around him. So many questions.
     
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  10. TrialWatcher

    TrialWatcher Active Member

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    Hope4More, great work collating the texts and key event days.

    The more I have learnt about this case, the more questions I seem to have. The texts, journal entries, phone calls and events (seen in date order) provide the biggest picture possible. As we know, drawing conclusions from some non-replies to texts (sometimes phone conversations followed) has to be done in context of the available evidence. The trial evidence and videos offer the richest sources in terms of conviction of the murderer. I'm fascinated by the journals and texts. Especially the invented entries.

    That you do all of this from a smart phone continues to blow my mind. I can barely see anything on my iPhone. The journals and texts are quite difficult to follow at times, especially in the formats available. Sterling work. Thank you.
     
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  11. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    OKC Convention, last part, and a quick-quick on the remainder of March 2008.



    This last part is just quick summary. Yes, Travis and CL did manage to evade the POS’s clutches at long last, for a short while. On the final night of convention (still most of the next day of convention to follow), Travis and CL met up in an elevator to GET SILLY (think pushing buttons and going up and down, up and down kind of silly) and TO TALK, nothing more. They had fun. Back in her room, CL thanked him and told him she’d had a good time. The next day, after convention ended, he texted with her on and off to make sure she made it home safely.

    ---

    On the final day in OKC, Travis heard back from Mimi about his invitation to get together after FHE the Monday after he returned. Mimi told him she couldn’t. Travis told her it wasn’t a problem, no worries, then immediately sent multiple texts to friends telling them how upset and sad he was and asking advice about what he should do next.

    ---
    The next most significant thing that happened before convention’s end, though, had nothing to do with the POS or Mimi or CL, but rather, with PPL politics, and for Travis, it was potentially very bad news.


    Travis had been struggling financially since at least January 2008, when he had to borrow money from friends to even pay his mortgage that month. He ultimately refinanced his house, but that was a temporary fix for a larger problem. The Hughes have said that Travis, at the top of the world financially when he first met the POS in late 2006, began losing ground in PPL (and thus in his personal finances) throughout 2007, which they attribute in no small part to the POS’s demands on TA’s time, focus, and pocket book.

    By March 2008, Travis seemed to be trying exceptionally hard to re-focus on PPL, but the challenges, both internal and external, were mounting.

    Travis’s ability to generate additional income and to progress within PPL (to keep it simple) was in part contingent upon the support of his regional PPL boss, Tony. Travis had hoped, and on into April, even anticipated, that he would be promoted to the position of Regional Manager (RM) for Arizona.

    Unfortunately for Travis, not only was Tony retiring/leaving, but the rumors he picked up at Convention indicated Tony and his immediate team would be replaced by PPL’ers Travis thought not just unworthy, but a direct threat to Travis’s ability to even hold onto his existing territory and influence, much less his hopes for advancement.

    After hearing the rumors, Travis warned Chris and his boss Tony that if the rumors were accurate, he would move away from Mesa rather than allow the business he’d build up there to collapse.


    Of all the encroaching PPL’ers Travis thought unworthy and a threat, one riled Travis up and drew out his contempt: Larry Smith. Travis didn’t like Larry Smith. And, for whatever reason, imagined or real, Travis also was positive Smith didn’t like him.


    Note: remember that the POS READ THESE TEXTS, and her (um) interesting relationship with Gus Searcy, who would soon enough show himself to be a supporter and promoter of Larry Smith. Spoiler alert: Larry Smith, not Travis, was named regional manager.

    ----------------------------------


    From the end of convention up to the end of March, 2008: the POS stole his diamond ring, never returned his journal, blew up his BMW, messed with his PPL accounts in some way at the end of March that he almost didn’t make the quota he had to meet to earn his Cancun trip.


    Travis threw parties around the time she left, and didn’t invite the POS to any of them, yet they did have sex of whatever kind, at least once, and other than asking her (almost meekly, IMO) about the ring and blowing up on March 30 about her trying to keep him from meeting quota, up until the very bitter end (double entendre intended ;)) , Travis didn’t seem to confront her directly about her games or aggression or thieving or acts of destruction or intrusions -including writing in HIS journal (!!!)


    --------------
    NEXT (at last): APRIL.
     
  12. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    PROLOGUE, AND IMO NECESSARY (THOUGH ONLY PARTIAL) CONTEXT FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN APRIL, MAY, AND YES, EVEN JUNE, 2008



    Dr. DeMarte, paraphrased testimony from PP2: “Travis cared for her. He enjoyed being intimate with her. What he had a problem with were her intrusions into his privacy.”

    Sky Hughes, no fan of the POS , in Our Friend Travis, co-written with Chris (summary):

    Travis really cared about her, liked her, defended her to us and other of his friends.

    Paraphrasing Sky:

    “One of the key ways she manipulated Travis was to remind him constantly that he was her spiritual mentor, and so bore significant responsibility for her spiritual growth and well-being (a perversion of a Mormon principle, relating to his {mistaken belief, based on her lies} that he had brought her into the Church).”


    Paraphrasing a key passage in the book by Sky:

    “ I lost my patience with Travis that day at Daniels Summit and vented, telling him (the POS) was obsessed and evil, that he needed to cut her off entirely, and that she would never follow through on her threats to commit suicide if he did so.

    He listened. He didn’t get angry. Instead, he was saddened to the brink of tears. You don’t understand, he said. She has no friends or family. I am all she has. You don’t know that she wouldn’t kill herself. And I could never live with myself if she did.”
     
  13. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    Briefly backwards, into February 2008, just for the insights these texts may provide.


    February 13, 2008. Text, Travis to Chris Hughes: Thanks, bro. I need love right now. I am battling a lot of stuff financially. With an outer veneer of confidence and inward fear.


    February 18, 2008. Text, TA to Chris : Lisa and I just broke up. I’m scared to death.

    Chris: I don’t know if you did it or she did it, but if you were my boyfriend and you were driving around town with your ex, I would dump you. Its for the best. Truly dump (the POS). And go get your dream girl.


    (I THINK WHAT THIS TEXT SUGGESTS IS ESPECIALLY KEY TO UNDERSTANDING TRAVIS IN MAY AND JUNE --(not the POS or her intent, yada yada)


    TA to Chris: You are right about the (POS) thing. FYI, the only time I see her is PPL things. I didn’t have any money and I didn’t have any gas, so I kinda used her. Desperate times, I know. But you are 100% right about it.

    February 26. TA to Chris: I just spent the past 2 hours drinking hot chocolate with my wife. I got more of a vibe she’s interested in me. I am so freakin happy. We’re going to a rock gym Friday night!!! Bro, I’m so happy. Pray for me.


    February 29. Travis to Chris. I had my 4th Mimi dream last night, which makes officially makes her the most dreamed about person in the history of T-doggs dream land.
     
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  14. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    APRIL, 2008: ALL THE MOST RELEVANT TEXTS AND JOURNALS ENTRIES FOR THE MONTH.

    PART ONE.


    March 27, 2008. Travis journal


    "I think Jodi moving will be good for me in a lot of ways. She's a great girl but we are not good influences on each other. She has an uncanny way of getting under my skin.


    So although I'm used to having her around and I'll admit I'll probably miss her. But, I'm certain it will be good for both of us. Plus, I need to get married and she can get in the way of that and in fact does."

    -------------------------------

    April 1, 2008.

    The first day POS was supposed to leave Mesa, but didn’t. From Travis texts with Michelle in late morning, about the conversation TA had just had with the POS, in which the POS tells him the information she shouldn’t know about Lisa and Mimi that she’s throwing in his face came from a mysterious Michelle K, who was friends with Elena. (Note: Elena just happens to have been a close friend of both Mimi and Lisa).


    Michelle tells Travis “that’s crazy” when he tells her about Michelle, the “spy” for POS.

    Then Michelle asks: If (POS) has been lying to you all this time how can you trust her (that a mysterious spy told her these things?)

    Travis: Well, I considered that, but why would she tell me these things at all?

    Michelle: So did she slash your tires?

    Travis: She swears she didn’t, but she watched Lisa and I make out twice, here at my house.

    ------

    Travis to POS, May 26th chat

    “just quit lying”

    “quit”

    “cant u quit?”

    “all u have ever done is lie”

    “you have only told partial truths to cover up ( other) lies

    -----

    Michelle: Wow, that’s intense. Maybe she’s genuinely trying to own up to things? (Note: in TA’s terms, to COME CLEAN)

    Travis: Yeah, I suppose.

    Travis: I have had no privacy for the last year. She has read my journal and texts messages several times, she has got into my email and has a spy.

    It is very frustrating not to have any privacy and all she did is to cause self-inflicted pain. She has heard us say I love you to each other while we were hugging in my office. That must have hurt.


    It has been hard on me. Poor Lisa got caught in the middle a little bit. The tire slashing hasn’t helped matters either.


    April 3, 2008. Travis journal

    Jodi keeps leaving but hasn't left. In fact, she pulled out of my driveway this afternoon but she reshowed up this evening. I know she is having a hard time, but I think I'd be better off and so would she if she just got out of here. "

    April 6. Text, Travis to Michelle: What advice would you give me if you knew the thought entered my mind to talk to Lisa?


    April 6, 2008. (later) Text, TA to POS

    "Do not call me. And do not text me anything. The next thing I want is this Michell K who is friends with Elena that nobody knows but knows details about my life. Not one other thing ever. Until you have that information. It is 15 minutes it would take to get the information. But you won't take 15 minutes. Why because it is a fing lie. So either text me that you are ready to tell me the truth or give me your imaginary friend with the worst BS story you have ever told or leave me alone.

    It's a lie like no other. It's freakin foolish. There is no way out of it. You have screwed up your story so bad you can't mend it. You are caught. When you realize that I will not know.

    You have til tomorrow to have me this information before I tell the Hughes, lesile udy, the freemans, your parents, or anyone else that matters about all the crazy things you had done. So fess up or you'll feel the wrath. No matter how bad the truth is I promise you the punishment will be better than the lie. ...

    You insult me by thinking I'll believe such crap. Nothing else from you til the truth. I already know you are lying so why continue. After tomorrow, it's going to get real bad. Time to spit it out."

    April 7. Text, Travis to Elyse: She told me a lot of crazy things tonight—she used to come over on a regular basis and sleep on my couch and leave before I got up; she drove around my house almost every night.

    (Elyse: That’s insane!! She needs serious help.)

    April 7. Later, text to Michelle about calling Lisa. By the way, I had no plans of calling her. I just wanted to know your opinion. I’m not brave enough to make such a call.

    April 7. Text, Travis to Taylor: Michelle told me not to contact Lisa. I asked her why and haven’t got a reply.

    April 8, 2008. Text, Travis to POS.

    Thanks a lot for having me sign that drawing in ink and then deciding that you are going to leave it. If it’s not one thing with you. It’s another. Always drama.

    (POS replies that it isn’t her who is being dramatic, and to call her. He does, and from the texting that followed the call, likely hung up on her in anger.)

    Travis: Do not call back. I am sick of you playing stupid and dealing with childish tactics. It was some stupid ass way of ruining yet another day of mine. Which you have done so much of lately. Bitter feelings are brewing in me towards you. If it keeps up I fear I will have a genuine dislike of you.

    I’m asking you before it gets to that to stop doing it, before I stop seeking revenge. Your account with me is overdrawn. PS- you need to start paying me back so you better start looking for a job.

    (POS replies, I’m sorry, of course it was just an innocent ditzy thing I did, ends with- “Just try to have a good day. Don’t worry be happy now.”)

    Travis: It just gets old. If it was hard for you to take because of sentimental reasons, then you shouldn’t have asked for it and then had me sign it in ink right away. To leave it after that was rude and inconsiderate to me. Which has been a common trend from you recently. (You knew you) would upset me but you simply don’t care.

    Just like wasting an entire week of my life sending me on a wild goose chase based on a lie. You just didn’t care to be considerate on how all that effects me.


    I’m trying to save my house and build a business amidst so much conflict, and you don’t care about anything that doesn’t involve you. Its very upsetting and I’m tired of it.


    I don’t want to deal with anything big or small that is some stupid ploy. You’re not sorry. If you were you would not continue on with this stuff. I’m just asking you to think of me. If you had thought of me for one second, you wouldn’t have left it here. Imagine if I did that to you witjh something you gave to me. You’d cry for weeks.

    Just give me a pardon from the madness. I don’t need it. Its wearing me out and if it continues, just like I have to give you motivation to tell me the truth, I’ll give you motivation to stop screwing with me.

    (POS likely called, because TA sends one last text, about 10 minutes later)

    Travis: I’m not angry. I’m worn out from this type of stuff.

    April 8. A short while later, replying to Sky: I’m lonely. Mimi doesn’t like me and I threw away Lisa. The good news is that (the POS) did leave.

    He also tells Sky that he is “fighting for his life amongst all the AZ drama,” and that’s he’s staying in Mesa until he hears about RM, but that he doesn’t want to be there.


    April 8. Travis journal

    Well today is another busy day. But I wouldn’t want it any other way. I did the Phoenix briefing and training. Considering the crowd, I think it went well. Life is good. I am happy. I want a girlfriend that has the potential to marry. Now that Jodi is gone and Deanna is moving, space is created, less drama can ensue. I miss Lisa. I feel like a fool pursuing Mimi.

    I was just so confused by it all. I was also stressed by money. This was all motivation to kind of let things go by the wayside. I feel like an idiot. I’m just sad because I lost my journal. And wouldn’t be surprised if it was stolen and most of my time with Lisa is in there. TVA.
     
  15. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    PS, Trial Watcher....

    I'm pretty handy with my phone, but yikes, I couldn't and wouldn't and am not using a phone to tackle this large project of typing up & integrating months' worth of texts and journals, etc. :O ;)
     
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  16. pocketaccent

    pocketaccent Well-Known Member

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    From POS' point of view, She was fully aware that was how he felt and used that to her advantage.
    She threatened suicide even during May 26 chat. (no point in me continuing to breathe)

    The same tactics probably were employed with Brewer and MM.

    During trial, she truly was hurt (cried real tears) when JM treated her attempted jail suicide (I don't believe she did) as an insignificant event and trivial. No 'poor baby' or sympathy from him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  17. Sharla

    Sharla New Member

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    Wow.. Wow.. Wow I wish she had been sentenced to death.
     
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  18. Ktblair

    Ktblair Well-Known Member

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    I would love to hear just exactly how Deanna felt about the POS.i know she doesn't like her,but.i wants details.....:cool:
     
  19. Ktblair

    Ktblair Well-Known Member

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    Hmm....I'm confused to as how was Deanna making it hard for TA? Other than still having feelings? We barely hear from her.if anything,it sounds like she was the least dramatic person interacting with him. Just curious.
     
  20. Ktblair

    Ktblair Well-Known Member

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    Sg
    should we call the waaaahmbulance?
     
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