Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

Discussion in 'Travis Alexander Trial - The State vs. Jodi Arias' started by KateB, Nov 10, 2015.

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  1. wasnt_me

    wasnt_me Well-Known Member

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    Help me out with this.

    According to the manual, no sony equipment, besides an adaptor is needed to access the memory stick with a computer or laptop that has a port for memory cards. I'm guessing that photographer Jodi had a laptop with a slot for memory cards. If she didn't, then she did spent enough time sneaking around Travis' house to access his computer with Zack's camera or without to get any pics off a memory card before she left town. Jodi's resourceful. I can't see her unable to accomplish what she wants.

    Travis was hard-pressed about his missing journals and his missing ring. He was not at any time worried about a missing memory card with sex pics of him and jodi on it. I think he would have noticed it was gone, especially if the card belonged to Zack, who probably wanted to know where his card was, too, unless he gave it away to Travis, who apparently had no use for it because he had no camera prior to Jodi's exit.

    IF Jodi and Travis had Zack's camera, for the OKC trip, it wouldn't be strange that Zack's camera is in Travis' car 3/18, a few days after that trip. A missing memory card would be strange. Something tells me that if there was camera sharing, it stopped after Travis placed the camera in view in his car and hid the key, so Zack could have some "explaining to do," as Travis put it in his journal.

    Jodi said she changed her hair 3/20. That was after Zack and Travis had the camera incident, and as I said above, it seems unlikely that Zack would still loan out the camera if something hinky had just happened regarding it. That on top of the fact that the computer wouldn't add log info to the memory card--and jodi wouldn't use this truth to her advantage-- makes the scenario doubtful.

    ETA--I don't know what car Travis took to OKC, if he had the new car, if it was the BMW, or if he rented one, but if the BMW was at home and Travis found Zack's camera in there, it could mean that Zack was driving it while Travis was gone. Just speculation.
     
  2. wasnt_me

    wasnt_me Well-Known Member

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    Could be. anything is possible.

    I was looking at texts and journal entries to see about the likelihood of these sex pics being pre June. It's very unlikely, but I'm about the business of figuring out whatever really happened, so I'm looking at it. Anyways, I found a fake journal entry.

    March 27th. It sounds like the stuff she told Flores in the phone calls, pre-arrest. In it, she also claims to have been at Travis' house the last 3 nights, having sex two of those nights. Well, if you go over the texts for the 24th, 25th, and 26th, her 3 nights at Travis' seem unlikely.

    Night of 24-25th--Travis is texting Tallie and Chaitanya all night. About 145am, Jodi pops in with a text about a Spanish briefing the next day. Either she's not at his house or she has to text him to get his attention. Of course it's possible she took herself over there at 2am.

    night of 25-26th--he was texting with Chaitanya up till 1am. Of course Jodi could have crawled through the doggie door at 1am.

    night of 26-27th--she was at his house all day packing while he wasn't home and spying on his roommate. at 239am, she says she has something funny to tell him. She can just text it if he's asleep. Moving on...

    27-morning of 29th--her mom is in town, keeping her on lockdown. doubt sex happened then.

    I think these entries are fake, too, because of what she says about the BMW.

    30th--According to her lying journal, she's buying new tires for the BMW. Why? Didn't the BMW just get new tires in December? According to the truthful texts, she asked Travis where he bought his tires. She went to that place and in passing, she texted that some wheels would look sweet on his BMW.

    Also according to this lying journal, she went over to Travis house to clean out her car because she's "giving it back to the bank." Oh, she's giving it back in March and in June (as she told Flores on the call?) Interesting.

    What do you think she was really doing? I think she used her car as an excuse to be around Travis and get away from her mom. I think she wasn't giving her car back to the bank but she wanted to put new tires on it for the drive to Yreka. I think she went to Discount tires to get tires for herself. I think whoever said she rented the Uhaul and put Travis' car on the back just, to tow it to his house. was right.

    Why the heck else is she putting the car on the Uhaul when it's not time to leave? Why is she putting it behind the Uhaul when the truck isn't even loaded yet? She got that tower for her infinity, but of course she just HAS to be driving Travis' car for whatever reason, and decides to tow his car back to the house.

    31st--she's apparently on her cycle. She's horny. Travis texts back that she can't do anything anyway. She replies that she's thought of ways around it. So no picture taking these days, I wouldn't think. If she is on her cycles, then that might last until she leaves town "for reals," as JM said.

    April fool's day, how appropriate. He is sleepy after texting with Elyse about 1am, but at 6am, he's texting Michelle L asking about this mystery Michelle 007 of Jodi's.

    Jodi was worrying the crap out of him and it was at the end of the month when he needed to be qualifying with PPL.
    4-1--that night, she's got him bringing cleaning supplies over at late as 2am. 12 hours later, she wants to crash at his house. he lets her. and thus begins the "leaving but not leaving."

    Also, it seems to me she was leaving AZ because she couldn't pay rent, not because it was best for her and Travis. The magical thinking ran out. travis was in no position to support her or help her. Her parents probably didn't want to send her money to stay in a troublesome situation. She had no choice. Leaving AZ was not her choice.
     
  3. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    I rewatched Melendez's testimony about TA's camera (day 6). It was interesting to observe how absolutely focused the killer was during his testimony. No doodling, no feigning of indifference. She was paying close attention to his every word. Atypical trial demeanor for her.

    Brief recap of his testimony. The camera was undamaged except for the button pressed to take pics. Memory stick was inside the camera retrieved from washer. No pics were found in internal camera memory. He couldn't retrieve pics with forensic tools.

    TA's camera embedded a date and time stamp on pics which could be recovered for each pic, even if pic had been deleted. The shower pics were taken with his camera and each had that embedded date and time stamp.

    TA's camera produced a large sized image and a smaller thumbnail image for each pic. Only the thumbnail sized images could be retrieved for sex pics allegedly taken in the afternoon of June 4. Melendez explained that the survival of thumbnails only could be the result of overwriting....that the sex pics were deleted prior to shower pics and the shower pics overwrote the large images of sex pics, but the thumbnails were retained.


    Moving on to whether or not they actually had sex that day, etc. For the sake of argument, let's say they didn't, and leave aside how the pics ended up on TA's camera.

    What alternative scenario fits the timeline? When would JA have gone to his house? Where could she have parked near the house for hours in her rental car with CA plates and had gone unnoticed? If she didn't know the roommates' schedules, how would waiting outside his house benefitted her? Etc.
     
  4. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    I think there was enough time after she killed him to do what appears to have been done.

    She stabbed him 27 times, chased him down the hallway, slit his throat, and was dragging him back to the shower, all in under 2 minutes.

    She had at least 25 minutes until Enrique says he returned, and up to 55 minutes:

    -- washed blood off him and herself, flooded the bathroom floor, used a towel (s) to mop up some blood and/or water.

    --retrieved the camera, went through photos, and deleted some (found have been in clusters, not one by one).

    -- took sheets out of the washer, put them in dryer, put camera and towels etc. in washer.

    --Put up dog barrier, locked doors, and left.

    Plenty of time, IMO.
     
  5. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    A couple of items:

    For realz Jodi says she's "on her cycle"? As in menstruating? Isn't it kinda old-fashioned not to be intimate under those conditions? What happened to "facials"? Besides, she was all about a different three hole lineup? JM shoulda asked ALV for insight on this one.... :S

    Jodi said this "on my cycle" thingy ("oh, what a dainty flower I am") to TA for some nefarious reason, and he pissed her off by taking it literally 'cos he wanted to?

    I've never thought Jodi went back to CA willingly. Heck, she probably went from Mesa to Searcy's and dawdled there so she could stay at his place indefinitely. And there was no way she was leaving for Travis' benefit.... Since when did she do anything for Travis' benefit?

    She coulda used all that UHaul money to pay for rent for quite a while. Plus, if she was going to have to get a job in Yreka, she might just as well have got one in Arizona, or anywhere else for that matter if she didn't want to go back to Yreka.

    In a roommate situation (like the one Travis had at his house), her rent would have been really low ($400 per month?). This wasn't a better option than Yreka? Huh?

    She coulda gone to SLC, home of a million Travises (by that I mean her version of Travis: a good clean catch with prospects).

    She coulda stayed in OKC...

    She coulda got herself a hookup um sugar daddy to move in with in Phoenix, apparently out of TA's hair, but not really.

    I don't get the "moving back to Yreka" thing at all: I'm thinking leaving Arizona became the best option, but it was for some reason we don't know.


    While we're on the "cycle" concept (I still can't fathom why this would be an issue), Jodi's old-fashioned views on the matter might have determined when the murder took place.... might have determined when she could get an alibi via Burns.... might have determined when she could get a gas can out of Brewer....might have determined when she could get those bucks out of that old man...
     
  6. geevee

    geevee Well-Known Stickie

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    Washers these days (and in 2008) take at least an hour to run through a cycle, if the shower photo time stamps are correct there's no way it wasn't running when Enrique came through the laundry room (last photo 5:33:32, Enrique home before 6:30).

    I know Melendez testified that the camera was all put together when he received it but the person who collected it (Heather?) said the back door was off and in the bottom of the machine and the memory stick is also separate from the camera (pics show this) though I don't recall if she said that as well or it was presumed because the pics show the memory card out of the camera and on the washer (you can't see the memory stick in the washer interior pics although you can see the back door is off, I'll post the pics if you want to look).

    I believe there was testimony (Pseudo?) that Travis' laptop was not set to the AZ time zone (there's a spearate one in Windows because of they don't observe DST) and he used that laptop every day, so I tend to doubt if he ever bothered to set his new camera to the correct time/time zone from whatever default setting it came with so the shower pics could have been at any time that day. I don't think her uploading pics off the stick would change any time stamp info, a 'modified' date would be added to the EXIF data but not erasure of the original times.

    Since one license plate was upside down in Utah I think we can safely presume she removed at least one plate after getting to T's so no one would see a car with CA plates in the area, I do think she got there between 3:00 and 4:00 a.m. but would likely not have entered until after Enrique left approx. 6:00 a.m. and possibly she waited until Zach left but that's a lot of time to spend sitting in a car where people going to work may notice her, so I'm undecided, she may have snuck in and hid in his house unbeknownst to T, it appears she was capable of doing so and not having Naps alert T to her presence in the past.

    I don't have a specific timeline fleshed out yet, I'd love to know what was in the June texts to see if it sways me one way or the other, if I arrive at one that fits all of the things I believe (and those I discount) I'll post it. :)
     
  7. Shadowboy

    Shadowboy New Member

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    BBM. Just to clarify: Daylight Savings Time began March 9th in 2008. AZ does not observe DST, so -- in May -- AZ and CA time of day are in sync. Thanks for all your work on this puzzle!
     
  8. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    The great unknown for me is not what the killer thought or meant to do on June 4, but what Travis was thinking and feeling that day up to the time she somehow forced him to sit in the shower.

    All we know for certain is that she was in his house that day, and that she took pictures of him after 5PM while he was in the shower (ok, Geevee, maybe not this for certain. :)). Given the length of the shower and the number of pics taken, I find it very difficult to believe he didn’t know she was there taking the pics, and given that, whatever else happened or did not happen that day, he did not stop her from photographing him naked in the shower, for whatever reason within or not within his control.

    The June texts will hopefully help illuminate a timeframe for when she was there and how focused he was on her. On a typical day TA texted frequently, and to multiple people. He had an important conference call that night, was due to leave shortly for Cancun, and at least during the last week of May, seemed happy and very sociable. It is definitely odd, IMO, that he stopped texting and answering calls around 12:15PM that day.

    More generally. I do wonder what the killer would have done if Travis had refused to communicate with her at all after May 26. Would she have been so intent on killing him that she’d take the chance of going there blind? Would he have called the police if he had woken up and found her in his house? In other words, would cutting her off entirely had made a difference? But. He didn’t. Not entirely. FWIW, below are all the communications we know about between Travis and his killer between May 26 and the day of his murder.


    The May 26 confrontation ended early morning on the 26th. The next time either texted one another was on May 30, four days after their confrontation and two days after she has stolen her gfather’s gun.

    At 10:52am the killer texted TA that she had an hour if he “needs any help.” No response.

    She texted him again at 12:23pm., saying she was “way off” and telling TA to call her when he was “done working.”

    TA texted her back within ONE MINUTE to ask-- way off on what? This is a standard TA before the 26th kind of response, an immediate reply to her one of her routine “accidental” texts intended for another person manipulations. His reply indicates he hasn’t cut her off completely, but not why he hasn’t done so. His immediate reply might mean he blew up on the May 26th but could be persuaded once again to resume communications as if nothing much had changed.

    Or…it could mean that he felt threatened enough by whatever was discussed on the 26th to not dare ignore her entirely, and to have interpreted the “way off” as related to what came up on the 26th (who knows, maybe she she told him she was pregnant, but wasn’t sure who the father since, true confessions, she’d slept with one of her imaginary BF’s in Mesa}.

    Whatever the case, she does not reply to him immediately, another of her favorite manipulative tactics.

    At 1:46pm she texts him that she was looking at the “wrong calendar” and tells him to call her later. At 3:33 pm she texts again to say she is at work and has missed his call. She adds- call me\me you later, an expression she has never used in any previous text to him.

    I’m sure JM knows whether or not TA actually called her back. We don’t. IMO she is intentionally trying to create a text record that downplays the rupture of the 26th, one which suggests they are back to normal. The absence of texts for the remainder of that day on through the next day into the evening is suggestive about TA’s not getting drawn back in, but inconclusive without access to email and phone records.

    The next text is sent by the killer the following day, May 31, a little bit after 11pm, and this time for sure she is playing the accidental text game, texting TA --did you get it? Travis again responds to her immediately—get what? And is rewarded with what had long ago had become familiar to him, her whoops, that text was meant for……

    In this case she claims she meant to send a pic to Angela, and in one of her asides that is actually always her central point she says, btw, Travis, I haven’t heard from you today but that’s OK, days can be like that. Sure hope you’re making the most of cheat day (cheat day is the one day a week TA allowed himself to go off his diet. Somehow I don’t think the killer is referring to food, though).

    No response from TA. She texts TA a pic and says—yes, that one was for you. Texts- Did you get it. She tells TA it was taken just after she sang the National Anthem.

    Taken the weekend before, on the Memorial Day weekend when he was supposed to have been there, witnessing and marveling her glorious performance. But he hadn’t gone to Yreka at all, had remained in Mesa, without plans, telling friends how boring the weekend had been. Even though she had told him how much it meant to her that he be there, even though she had told him how nervous she was and that she had agreed to do it because she was following his advice to push her limits, to go out of her comfort zone. Much of this said to him on the ‘May 10” sex tape, when she also tried to sing him the Anthem, only to have him mock the words {“never again, friend,” she tells him then. “That is an important song.”) .

    And, as she tells TA on May 26th, that oh so important event her parents hadn’t bothered to attend either.

    Did you get the pic, she asks TA. His reply is one word: “yah,” as he keeps on texting with Maria, telling her he wants her to be his dancing partner, asking her to send him a pic of herself, flirting. He’s also simultaneously texting with Chris H about UFC fights and with Deanna about John Gait and Eddie and not wanting to know what happens..

    No more texts until near midnight of June 1 on into early morning of June 2, the day she begins her journey to kill him.
    She texts him to please call her, she has something to tell him, then 3 minutes later says “oh, things, plural,” with a happy face. A minute after her second text he replies and asks- “what is it?”

    She doesn’t text back until 2:06AM, telling him to hurry up, that’s she’s getting sleepy. According to phone records, though, she also calls him 4 times between 1-3AM, the longest is 17 seconds.

    At 2:12am she prompts him again with zzzzz’s, then 7 minutes later texts him a “poem”:

    “There once was a T-dizzle, whose things would not fizzle. He always kept his word, and had a whistle like a bird. And when he sang, it would sizzle!” smiley face. (quote is from Beth Karas subscription webpage).

    Travis sends the last text he’ll ever write her around 2:30AM, telling her he’s in the middle of something but will call her as soon as he can.

    She replies a minute later with the last text she will send him before she slaughters him, telling him, OK, T-dogg, and asking him- did U like my poem?

    At 3AM TA does call her and they speak for about 18 minutes. For whatever reason they get off the phone, but he calls her back almost immediately and they speak for another 41 minutes.

    4:03AM she calls him. That call lasts for 2 minutes 48 seconds. Combining the calls, they have spoken virtually non-stop for just over an hour, and he has made 2 of those calls.

    At 5:39AM the killer is on her way out of Yreka, heading for Redding to rent a car. She calls him 2 more times on the 2nd, at 4:03pm and at 5:28pm, as she is driving between Redding and Lodi, CA. Each calls lasts under a couple of minutes.

    The final calls she makes to Travis are on June 3. She calls him from the Monterey-Salinas area, after she has made her bank deposits and before she buys that gas can at Wal-Mart: at 12:57 (17 seconds) and at 1:51PM (2 minutes 50 seconds). The last call she makes to Travis is at 8:16PM, in or near Pasadena; the call lasts 2 minutes and 9 seconds.


    Notes: Ryan Burns says he heard from the killer around 9 or 10pm on June 3. The approx. distance from Pasadena to Mesa is 390 miles, a 6 hour drive.

    The only instance we know for certain Travis was in direct contact with his killer at any point during her murder trip was between 3-4:05AM on June 2, by phone, fully 48 hours before she allegedly arrived at his house and found him awake waiting for her.
     
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  9. atthelake

    atthelake Former Member

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    Cut it and paste it into pastie.com .... and then share the link for that pastie here. you merely paste in that website go down to the bottom and click* create link* to share

    Hth

    ETA pastie.ORG !!!
     
  10. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    thank you!!! I think I may have figured it out...maybe. :)
     
  11. geevee

    geevee Well-Known Stickie

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    Hope, can I just say how much I ((heart)) you? Thanks so much for the above post 1208 (too long to quote but didn't want to chop any of it off), I too am most interested in what T was thinking, doing and saying to others leading up to the day she murdered him. Even with their communications I still doubt he had any idea she was coming to Mesa, I so wish we knew the content of those phone conversations but hopefully when the rest of the June texts are posted we'll have an idea of what he was telling others that could help to fill in the blanks (fingers crossed). Again, thanks so much for adding so much context to all of the bits of info.
     
  12. pocketaccent

    pocketaccent Well-Known Member

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    Snipped. BBM.

    I'm not tech-savvy. If it wasn't for husband and son gifting me various tech items, I could still be using land-line phones and film cameras, and be content.:blushing:

    So could you watch Day 13, from 1:29:30 to 1:32:45 in which time stamp issues are asked by a juror and JM?
    [video=youtube;i2dF0k_dsY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2dF0k_dsY0[/video]
    And please help me figure out if there is any chance time stamps can be created on the memory card when one transfers the photos to one's computer. Can that happen unintentionally/unknowingly, especially if the photos being transferred (ie, Zack's) did not contain any time and date stamps to begin with?
     
  13. NotMyselfNEMore

    NotMyselfNEMore Well-Known Member

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    I watched the portion you're asking about re: the time stamps on photos - Lonnie Dworkin does say that the time stamps can be manipulated after the fact, but can only be manipulated before the fact if the camera time is set incorrectly before the photos are taken (so yes, they can be manipulated once they're off the camera). I hope that helps (not so sure I explained that so clearly, though).

    FWIW - these specific questions to LD were about the Canon camera (which was JA's), not the Sony that Travis had. It would still work the same way, CMJA would not have had the opportunity to alter anything on the Sony after the murder (although she could have messed with it beforehand, if she was so inclined). She would have had ample opportunity to fiddle with her own camera (the Canon) - I think that's what Juan was getting here, IMO.

    Sorry for the long winded answer!
     
  14. NotMyselfNEMore

    NotMyselfNEMore Well-Known Member

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    You figured it out great! And let me add my thanks for all the in depth analysis, and pulling all that information together in a cohesive way - my thanks button is not enough!

    I'm eagerly anticipating those June texts (on the BK subscirption site)! Seeing them altogether for the whole month is so much easier to understand (and sad, really) than simply seeing the texts between TA and a few individuals (also seen on the BK sub site). Any word on when they will post June?

    I have some notes and thoughts about what I've been reading there, but will post them in the other thread when I can - I have some thoughts about March and all the texts to 'calle' (I think that was the name) - who sounds like another 'linkup' person - who was extremely forward, but never met Travis - and seemed not to want to. Does anyone know if she was real? I have doubts, IMO, JMO.

    PS - Hope, I especially love your note about JA texting something out of the blue...then not responding - so manipulative, and yes, one of her favorite tactics!
     
  15. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    Aaaawh. You know the feeling is mutual. :)

    I owe you a reply to your timeline but have been focused on their pre June 4 communications. More on June 4 texts below.....
     
  16. pocketaccent

    pocketaccent Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Travis' sad/fearful face photo-

    I've always wondered how JA managed to take such a well-focused close-up picture while holding a weapon I presume, threatening him, maybe telling him he will die soon, and was able to push the shutter button at the same time.

    I have a lot of family videos made by my late husband and at the end of the video, he sometimes added a bunch of photo shots that he took while trasferring to DVDs.

    Like I mentioned, I'm brainless when it comes to tech stuff, but could JA have been videoing the shower scene and the photos that we know of are made from the video afterwards, something like what my hubby did?

    And if she was surreptitiously videoing, there would be no shutter button sound for Travis to notice.

    I remember Flores telling JA during interrogation that videos are harder to retrieve after deletion.
    As evil as she is, JA may have wanted to make a video of actual killing scene to savor later.
     
  17. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    The two main reasons why I think the time stamps on shower photos were accurate, or at least, fairly accurate, meaning that Travis was not killed in the AM:

    1. The killer put a great deal of effort into planning the murder, including lining up her alibi with Ryan. She was many many hours late in reaching Utah, late enough for Leslie Udy to call Travis out of concern, late enough without sufficient explanation that even trusting Ryan disbelieved her story. I don't think she would have spent hours in TA's house after killing him, given the risks that posed both to her alibi and to being detected in the house.

    2. The timing of when she turned her phone back on at the AZ- NV border matches up with the shower pic timeline.
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    How significant is it that there were no photos on the internal memory of TA's camera? Only on the memory card...
     
  19. Caylee Advocate

    Caylee Advocate My Give A Damn's Busted

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    I would have loved to have been his friend. This made me laugh... then it made me sad. Gosh how I despise that evil butchering B***H :cursing: I was reading his legacy and after I finished I came up with this:

    1. I hope she lives to an "old" age.

    2. I hope that when she gets transferred to General Population she gets to bunk with the biggest and meanest Butch in Perryville, and tries to reject the advances.

    3. I hope she experiences menopause at its worst with no relief from any of it.


    Snipped from, Travis's legacy.. what a sad yet funny read, he was a likeable person it seems:


    "Often when putting his name (Travis) on the list at a restaurant, after the hostess told him how long the wait was, he would pull up the sleeve of his shirt exposing his bicep, flex, and ask, “How ‘bout now?” If the hostess was quick on her feet, and responded, “Still 20 minutes.” He would hike up both sleeves, flash her a double flex, and ask, “And now?” He would have everyone in the waiting area laughing. Travis wasn’t just funny, he was very deep, and an amazing friend to so many people."
     
  20. Caylee Advocate

    Caylee Advocate My Give A Damn's Busted

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    LinasK..... I was happy to see your name appearing in the thanks on some posts, I miss posting with you and hope all is well!! Huggsss
     
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