Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

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Val1

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How significant is it that there were no photos on the internal memory of TA's camera? Only on the memory card...

I'm not sure it had any since the camera's batteries were dead by the time they checked it, which is also why there is no way to determine what date/time the pics were actually taken.
 

Hatfield

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Regarding Travis' sad/fearful face photo-

I've always wondered how JA managed to take such a well-focused close-up picture while holding a weapon I presume, threatening him, maybe telling him he will die soon, and was able to push the shutter button at the same time.

I have a lot of family videos made by my late husband and at the end of the video, he sometimes added a bunch of photo shots that he took while trasferring to DVDs.

Like I mentioned, I'm brainless when it comes to tech stuff, but could JA have been videoing the shower scene and the photos that we know of are made from the video afterwards, something like what my hubby did?

And if she was surreptitiously videoing, there would be no shutter button sound for Travis to notice.

I remember Flores telling JA during interrogation that videos are harder to retrieve after deletion.
As evil as she is, JA may have wanted to make a video of actual killing scene to savor later.


That's an interesting thought. I think a PC or Laptop movie editing application could probably capture stills off of a movie file but not sure if the camera could do it once recorded as a video.

That one photo is etched in my mind forever unfortunately. It has always bothered me.

Another possible is maybe she set the camera to take a picture automatically every X amount of time. Which could be why the camera took a picture on the floor by itself.

I do think some of the photos were transferred to the camera card OR her laptop. I think she had compatibility issues with the format which would explain why only thumbnails for some.

I flip flop with whether she was planning to take the camera and make it look like the robbers took it OR she was trying to wipe the memory clean of any picture of her once she got what she needed off the camera. I think what may have happened is she got blood on the camera and so decided to take it with her but then let it rest on top of washer and it fell in during the cycle because door to washer was left up (much discussed a long time ago as a possible). And she was too dumb to realize where the camera was and finally had to leave because it was getting late.

I think she wanted to get the pictures as proof that he liked her and she liked him and could not be the killer if she ever needed to use the pictures as proof of that.

I flip flopped so much on timeline that I don't even know what I think any
more. LOL

This may not fit into what is known but my general opinion is I think she shot him first right around the time of that disturbing photo. I think her plan was to use the gun that she brought and I think it jammed on her after that first shot.

I think the casing in blood can be explained by later pooling of the blood that went down the tile cracks like a river and pooled all around that casing. Just one of the theories I had a long time ago about why there was no blood on top of that casing and if shot was first.

I then think he slumped in shower and after she realized the gun jammed and would not shoot anymore then she ran out of the area to go get another weapon the knife from either her purse or from the kitchen.

By the time she got back I think Travis had crawled out of the shower and managed to pull himself up to look at the damage he suffered in the mirror. It was then he coughed and spit up blood onto the mirror sink area. Right about that moment Jodi is behind him with the knife and stabbed him in the back. He collapses to the floor and she is wildly following him and stabbing him and jumping back after each stab. He may have rolled over on his back once or twice and she would jump in and stab him but then jump back to avoid him.
could be how he got some hand wounds and front wounds.

Finally as he is crawling near the end of the hall she reaches around and slices his throat while over him.

Then she drags him to the shower after waiting to make sure he didn't move anymore.

Sorry if this is kind of rambled. I am not sure what I think anymore. LOL
Maybe none of it makes sense because JA was messing up big time during her perfect plan.
 

Hope4More

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Heads up!

The June texts are scheduled to be posted on Beth K's site...tomorrow!
 

wasnt_me

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A couple of items:

For realz Jodi says she's "on her cycle"? As in menstruating? Isn't it kinda old-fashioned not to be intimate under those conditions? What happened to "facials"? Besides, she was all about a different three hole lineup? JM shoulda asked ALV for insight on this one.... :S

Jodi said this "on my cycle" thingy ("oh, what a dainty flower I am") to TA for some nefarious reason, and he pissed her off by taking it literally 'cos he wanted to?

I've never thought Jodi went back to CA willingly. Heck, she probably went from Mesa to Searcy's and dawdled there so she could stay at his place indefinitely. And there was no way she was leaving for Travis' benefit.... Since when did she do anything for Travis' benefit?

She coulda used all that UHaul money to pay for rent for quite a while. Plus, if she was going to have to get a job in Yreka, she might just as well have got one in Arizona, or anywhere else for that matter if she didn't want to go back to Yreka.

In a roommate situation (like the one Travis had at his house), her rent would have been really low ($400 per month?). This wasn't a better option than Yreka? Huh?

She coulda gone to SLC, home of a million Travises (by that I mean her version of Travis: a good clean catch with prospects).

She coulda stayed in OKC...

She coulda got herself a hookup um sugar daddy to move in with in Phoenix, apparently out of TA's hair, but not really.

I don't get the "moving back to Yreka" thing at all: I'm thinking leaving Arizona became the best option, but it was for some reason we don't know.


While we're on the "cycle" concept (I still can't fathom why this would be an issue), Jodi's old-fashioned views on the matter might have determined when the murder took place.... might have determined when she could get an alibi via Burns.... might have determined when she could get a gas can out of Brewer....might have determined when she could get those bucks out of that old man...

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to write it as if she had said "on my cycle." Those are my old fashioned words. This is what was said:

JA: I don't think I should come over.I'm way too horny to be in your presence right now.
TA: You can't do anything anyways.
JA: My one-track mind has already thought of a way around that.

I took that to mean she was on her period. She didn't say anything about it directly. I was assuming that's what Travis was indicating, and if he's indicating that she can't do anything, then I don't know that he's the type who would try to do anything while she's in that state. I was "*advertiser censored*-u-me-ing" that mormons might not get down like that.

She did say that she'd be there in 15 minutes, but he steadily texts others for another hour. I can't tell if he texts steadily any further because it starts to be incoming texts, and outgoing texts are not present.

He was also busily trying to qualify that day, March 31st, and it was the day she messed up his car, so...

Yeah, I don't know, but I think her parents made her do it--the move, that is. Why else is her mother down there? They might have paid for the U-haul. I don't know why else Jodi is letting her mother be there other than they are footing the bill, probably for her car, too, since she's been "giving it back to the bank" since March, it appears.
 

wasnt_me

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Snipped. BBM.

I'm not tech-savvy. If it wasn't for husband and son gifting me various tech items, I could still be using land-line phones and film cameras, and be content.:blushing:

So could you watch Day 13, from 1:29:30 to 1:32:45 in which time stamp issues are asked by a juror and JM?
[video=youtube;i2dF0k_dsY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2dF0k_dsY0[/video]
And please help me figure out if there is any chance time stamps can be created on the memory card when one transfers the photos to one's computer. Can that happen unintentionally/unknowingly, especially if the photos being transferred (ie, Zack's) did not contain any time and date stamps to begin with?

I can't look at the video right now to see which testimony this is, but I have watched Melendez, Dworkin, etc. I will watch it all again because I heard Melendez say--whether it was in the prosecution's case, the rebuttal, OR during the retrial--that he put the timestamps that we see on the photos. He wrote the red times on the pics.

A memory card is only storage. Logs are not written to it. Nothing would make the camera log a new picture on the memory card to indicate that it had been downloaded on this date. The memory card is nothing more than a usb stick. It can't perform any more functions than a usb stick can. And Jodi did not need the sony camera to access the memory stick according to the sony manual. And with all the time she had at his house back in March, she didn't need to wait all the way until June to access the memory stick--even if she did need the camera or software. It's also possible, that the sony software could have been downloadable from Sony's site, even further removing the need for her to use the camera for any of this.

I am not savvy at explaining technology and I don't know everything :), but I do know that a camera doesn't keep logs of activity on it the same way a computer does.

I do know you can't manipulate the metadata--unless there's software to do it with. Melendez says he got his information off the metadata. I'll have to find the exact place in testimony where he explained it since there seems to be some dispute about what he explained.

Dworkin's testimony wasn't about the sony memory card, if I recall correctly. I wish I could work on it and post, but I gotta some "real job" work to do tonight, unfortunately.
 

wasnt_me

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FYI, I'm glad to see all the posts today! I'm glad to talk to people still interested.
 

pocketaccent

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I can't look at the video right now to see which testimony this is, but I have watched Melendez, Dworkin, etc. I will watch it all again because I heard Melendez say--whether it was in the prosecution's case, the rebuttal, OR during the retrial--that he put the timestamps that we see on the photos. He wrote the red times on the pics.

A memory card is only storage. Logs are not written to it. Nothing would make the camera log a new picture on the memory card to indicate that it had been downloaded on this date. The memory card is nothing more than a usb stick. It can't perform any more functions than a usb stick can. And Jodi did not need the sony camera to access the memory stick according to the sony manual. And with all the time she had at his house back in March, she didn't need to wait all the way until June to access the memory stick--even if she did need the camera or software. It's also possible, that the sony software could have been downloadable from Sony's site, even further removing the need for her to use the camera for any of this.

I am not savvy at explaining technology and I don't know everything :), but I do know that a camera doesn't keep logs of activity on it the same way a computer does.

I do know you can't manipulate the metadata--unless there's software to do it with. Melendez says he got his information off the metadata. I'll have to find the exact place in testimony where he explained it since there seems to be some dispute about what he explained.

Dworkin's testimony wasn't about the sony memory card, if I recall correctly. I wish I could work on it and post, but I gotta some "real job" work to do tonight, unfortunately.
Thank you, wasnt me for your explanation.
I understand now. Downloading photos to a computer has nothing to do with the time stamps found on photos in the memory card.

Still don't want accept that they had sex that day.
Blech! She braided her hair. She is sick.
 

wasnt_me

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Not a problem, Pocket.

During the retrial, Melendez is on direct. He said some important things:

[video=youtube;tMzRqHD13EM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzRqHD13EM[/video]

1. He, Melendez, removed the camera from the washer. This is important because some have posted that Heather Connor removed it.

2. Melendez removed the memory card from the camera. He is the one who put it on the washer, so it could be bagged separately.

3.The pic all have file information and also metadata. When a photo is taken, the camera makes two copies. One copy is the original size, and the other copy is the thumbnail that we view when we replay photos on the camera. The earlier the photo is deleted, the more of its info is overwritten. Since the sex pics were deleted first, they lost more of their information than say the murder photos, which were the last pics deleted.

Melendez said he got the information on the front of the pics from the metadata. He was indicating that he put it on the photos in red, and the reason some sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data, but Juan Martinez cleared this issue up by pointing out that the KY Jelly was in a dated pic by Travis' arm and pillow, and in a pic of Jodi, the KY was still in that same spot, though the pillow and travis were no longer in that spot.

4. In looking at the photos on the trial screen instead of looking at someone's screen shot of the photos, we can see light from the windows, which indicate that the sex shoot took place in daylight hours, lending more credence to them being taken on 6/4/08 in the daylight hours.

I looked at Dworkin's testimony 1st trial again. The question Dwrokin was asked by the Jury didn't address metadata.

Juror: Are date and time stamps on photos taken by digital photos able to be manually changed and/or manipulated. Can it be before or after a photo is taken?

Answer: (paraphrased) The photo can't be manipulated before it's taken. The file would have to exist and the be manipulated after the fact. He then realizes you can manipulate it before it exists if you change the date and time on the camera before taking the photo.

Juan followed up by asking if it was possible that the photo of Jodi and her sister could have been taken in 2007 and then uploaded in 2008. Dworkin said that anything was "possible." But the truth of the matter is that a picture can be put onto the memory card, but It's still going to say the original created date on it.

FYI, my computer will tell me when a photo was put on it, but it also still tells me the original date it was taken. I transferred a pic from 2014 from my tablet to my laptop. In properties section of the pic, the laptop told me it was created and accessed 1/8/16 but it also listed that it was created in November 2014.

I transferred the same pic back to my tablet. All the tablet told me was 11/2014. Unlike the computer, the tablet added no information about what I did to the file today. It didn't even tell me I accessed it today.

Please note, Dworkin doesn't indicate that he analyzed Travis' camera. Only Jodi's canon, as far as camera go. His testimony was about pictures from there and JA's computer, which by the way, they found no sex pics on apparently because it has not come up in either trial. JM did not use Dworkin to indicate anything about the 6/4 pics.

FYI, Dworkin got the Helio June 2010. It had the 5/2 texts on it, and it had the phone recordings on it. So as for the second Helio phone that "replaced" the first "stolen one," no one as spoken on that one in trial--to my knowledge. Dworkin said he recorded the sex tape off the phone through a jack directly into his computer, so if the segments are out of order, or he decided to merge calls that shouldn't be, we have no way of knowing because JM had Melendez testify that he never received the Helio for independent analysis.
 

wasnt_me

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Washers these days (and in 2008) take at least an hour to run through a cycle, if the shower photo time stamps are correct there's no way it wasn't running when Enrique came through the laundry room (last photo 5:33:32, Enrique home before 6:30).

I know Melendez testified that the camera was all put together when he received it but the person who collected it (Heather?) said the back door was off and in the bottom of the machine and the memory stick is also separate from the camera (pics show this) though I don't recall if she said that as well or it was presumed because the pics show the memory card out of the camera and on the washer (you can't see the memory stick in the washer interior pics although you can see the back door is off, I'll post the pics if you want to look).

I believe there was testimony (Pseudo?) that Travis' laptop was not set to the AZ time zone (there's a spearate one in Windows because of they don't observe DST) and he used that laptop every day, so I tend to doubt if he ever bothered to set his new camera to the correct time/time zone from whatever default setting it came with so the shower pics could have been at any time that day. I don't think her uploading pics off the stick would change any time stamp info, a 'modified' date would be added to the EXIF data but not erasure of the original times.

Since one license plate was upside down in Utah I think we can safely presume she removed at least one plate after getting to T's so no one would see a car with CA plates in the area, I do think she got there between 3:00 and 4:00 a.m. but would likely not have entered until after Enrique left approx. 6:00 a.m. and possibly she waited until Zach left but that's a lot of time to spend sitting in a car where people going to work may notice her, so I'm undecided, she may have snuck in and hid in his house unbeknownst to T, it appears she was capable of doing so and not having Naps alert T to her presence in the past.

I don't have a specific timeline fleshed out yet, I'd love to know what was in the June texts to see if it sways me one way or the other, if I arrive at one that fits all of the things I believe (and those I discount) I'll post it. :)

Melendez took the camera out of the washer. Melendez took the card out of the camera and put it on the washer.

I can set my washing machine to run for short cycles. Also, she could have started it on a rinse cycle.

Jodi also could have remained upstairs until Enrique went to church also. She has an extra hour in her timeline to reach Kingman and make her phone calls. If the washer's an issue, look it up on the picture and see if it runs short cycles. I can't remember what was in the washer versus dryer right now, but we don't know if Enrique didn't hear it, didn't notice it, didn't remember hearing it, or didn't think to tell anyone that he'd heard it.

Naps had not seen Jodi in two months. She might not have been able to contain his excitement as she could if he had seen her sneaking around daily as usual. My dogs flip out due to excitement when I come home from a trip. Whether anyone would hear Naps if she sneaked in while they slept is another story.

She could have entered at 6am, but how she knew how long she had to wait outside is a mystery because Enrique is a brand new roommate. She knows nothing of his habits. I don't know how she'd know she had to wait all the around to 4pm for Zack to come and go either.

The time zones don't matter. California's time was the same as AZ's in May due to DLST. If Travis didn't bother setting his camera to the right times, then we can't count on any dates and times on any pics from his camera, including the shower and murder pics. But we do know when her phone went off and came back and on it lines up with the timeline.

I don't know, but I'm suspecting travis was doing something hinky at 4:24am. He searched and watched a video on about proxy servers to browse anonymously. After he did that, he went to his blog or website through a google ad. So it seems. I have to look at it more later. His last activity was 4:35am.

There's no evidence of any backing out of his browsers etc, so Jodi either watched him on his computer through the window, which the window and computer are at a weird angle for her to see what was on his computer screen, or she was there in the room while he was watching it.
 

LinasK

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LinasK..... I was happy to see your name appearing in the thanks on some posts, I miss posting with you and hope all is well!! Huggsss
Yeah, I've been MIA since last month, working the Christmas retail season at Kohl's. It was h*ll, but it's over now and I'm back!!:grouphug::grouphug:
 

Hope4More

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Melendez took the camera out of the washer. Melendez took the card out of the camera and put it on the washer.

I can set my washing machine to run for short cycles. Also, she could have started it on a rinse cycle.

Jodi also could have remained upstairs until Enrique went to church also. She has an extra hour in her timeline to reach Kingman and make her phone calls. If the washer's an issue, look it up on the picture and see if it runs short cycles. I can't remember what was in the washer versus dryer right now, but we don't know if Enrique didn't hear it, didn't notice it, didn't remember hearing it, or didn't think to tell anyone that he'd heard it.

Naps had not seen Jodi in two months. She might not have been able to contain his excitement as she could if he had seen her sneaking around daily as usual. My dogs flip out due to excitement when I come home from a trip. Whether anyone would hear Naps if she sneaked in while they slept is another story.

She could have entered at 6am, but how she knew how long she had to wait outside is a mystery because Enrique is a brand new roommate. She knows nothing of his habits. I don't know how she'd know she had to wait all the around to 4pm for Zack to come and go either.

The time zones don't matter. California's time was the same as AZ's in May due to DLST. If Travis didn't bother setting his camera to the right times, then we can't count on any dates and times on any pics from his camera, including the shower and murder pics. But we do know when her phone went off and came back and on it lines up with the timeline.

I don't know, but I'm suspecting travis was doing something hinky at 4:24am. He searched and watched a video on about proxy servers to browse anonymously. After he did that, he went to his blog or website through a google ad. So it seems. I have to look at it more later. His last activity was 4:35am.

There's no evidence of any backing out of his browsers etc, so Jodi either watched him on his computer through the window, which the window and computer are at a weird angle for her to see what was on his computer screen, or she was there in the room while he was watching it.


Thanks for the info about Melendez, camera stick, and washer. About last time computer was accessed in the AM- the time you cite is later than the 3 times connected to YouTube videos. Was there another activity after the videos? Don't remember that, but then again most testimony relating to anything electronic didn't stick with me even at the time.

I don't think TA was doing anything "hinky" in any case. He was struggling with a virus infected computer and no doubt was understandably paranoid that the killer might still be able to hack his accounts and snoop.


As for whether or not he waited up or knew she was coming at that hour...I really don't think so, but acknowledge that is based largely on assumptions.

She knew his habits and might well have been able to monitor his cell phone activity. At 4 am she could have been relatively confident she wouldn't be detected as she waited in her car to see his bedroom lights be turned on then off as he finally went to sleep.

An excited Naps being greeted in the garage or office wouldn't have woken up a crashed TA upstairs, nor his roomies, IMO.
 

Hope4More

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Why did she bring a gun if she meant to kill him with a knife?

It hit me last night.....I think she played out various revenge scenarios in her head beforehand, and one involved a gun. Remember TA telling the story of how he had almost died when someone held a gun to his head? But that the gun hadn't gone off?

Maybe she had him at gunpoint to force him to sit down in the shower. JM stipulated she wasn't holding a weapon, but that doesn't mean she wasn't, only that he chose not to argue the point.

She didn't want him to die quickly or easily, IMO. I can imagine her holding the gun and telling him she was going to kill him, taunting him for most of those 44 seconds between him sitting and the accidental pic of the ceiling.... then pulling the trigger, but with no bullet in the gun, and as he reacted to that, pulling out a knife and stabbing him instead.
 

Caylee Advocate

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Parody of Lefty's rap song (garble) bringing awareness to PTSD and domestic violence including the butcheress.




[video=youtube;212PkZS03NI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=212PkZS03NI&app=desktop[/video]
 

Hope4More

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June texts are up on BK site.


The only text Travis sent on the 4th was the 12:13 pm reply to Chris H's text sent around 10:30am about a PPL product.

The only other incoming texts that day:

5:53 am from Brooke, not new GF--a general what's up?

6:55 am from Maria, replying to his last 2am teasing goodnight text to her---- she replies-- "dork"

2:52pm from Regan---"hey lover...."

4:00pm from unknown about renting a room.

All texts were marked "read."

New-----Brooke invited him to go camping on the night of June 3rd. He agreed to go. It was only cancelled because she couldn't find enough people to make a good group for the trip.

A clue maybe for whether or not Travis was really expecting the killer on the 4th.
 

peedoffinny

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FYI, I'm glad to see all the posts today! I'm glad to talk to people still interested.

Me too!!! I love Hope5Mores posts along w/ all the others who are trying to make sense out of it all. I'm so fascinated by this case and Caylee Anthony's. (Heather Elvis and Cooper Harris are a close 2nd).
 

Hope4More

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The quotes below are from the Beth Karas subscription website.



The only text Travis sent on the 4th, at 12:13pm, is.......odd. Here's the exchange:


Chris H: (10:51 AM) Urgent! JM Success Symposium Seminar! Mark Smith is about to send out the link, so make sure yiur team has tickets...Buy now!! (web address) Get the word out fast! Forward! Email! Special ppl price! $67.

Travis: (12:13pm) Did you buy me one???


Maybe you'd have to read all the texts between Travis and Chris to get a sense of how they interacted, but T's reply was off. Out of character. Odd.
 

pocketaccent

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Not a problem, Pocket.

During the retrial, Melendez is on direct. He said some important things:

[video=youtube;tMzRqHD13EM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzRqHD13EM[/video]

1. He, Melendez, removed the camera from the washer. This is important because some have posted that Heather Connor removed it.

2. Melendez removed the memory card from the camera. He is the one who put it on the washer, so it could be bagged separately.

3.The pic all have file information and also metadata. When a photo is taken, the camera makes two copies. One copy is the original size, and the other copy is the thumbnail that we view when we replay photos on the camera. The earlier the photo is deleted, the more of its info is overwritten. Since the sex pics were deleted first, they lost more of their information than say the murder photos, which were the last pics deleted.

Melendez said he got the information on the front of the pics from the metadata. He was indicating that he put it on the photos in red, and the reason some sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data, but Juan Martinez cleared this issue up by pointing out that the KY Jelly was in a dated pic by Travis' arm and pillow, and in a pic of Jodi, the KY was still in that same spot, though the pillow and travis were no longer in that spot.

4. In looking at the photos on the trial screen instead of looking at someone's screen shot of the photos, we can see light from the windows, which indicate that the sex shoot took place in daylight hours, lending more credence to them being taken on 6/4/08 in the daylight hours.

I looked at Dworkin's testimony 1st trial again. The question Dwrokin was asked by the Jury didn't address metadata.

Juror: Are date and time stamps on photos taken by digital photos able to be manually changed and/or manipulated. Can it be before or after a photo is taken?

Answer: (paraphrased) The photo can't be manipulated before it's taken. The file would have to exist and the be manipulated after the fact. He then realizes you can manipulate it before it exists if you change the date and time on the camera before taking the photo.

Juan followed up by asking if it was possible that the photo of Jodi and her sister could have been taken in 2007 and then uploaded in 2008. Dworkin said that anything was "possible." But the truth of the matter is that a picture can be put onto the memory card, but It's still going to say the original created date on it.

FYI, my computer will tell me when a photo was put on it, but it also still tells me the original date it was taken. I transferred a pic from 2014 from my tablet to my laptop. In properties section of the pic, the laptop told me it was created and accessed 1/8/16 but it also listed that it was created in November 2014.

I transferred the same pic back to my tablet. All the tablet told me was 11/2014. Unlike the computer, the tablet added no information about what I did to the file today. It didn't even tell me I accessed it today.

Please note, Dworkin doesn't indicate that he analyzed Travis' camera. Only Jodi's canon, as far as camera go. His testimony was about pictures from there and JA's computer, which by the way, they found no sex pics on apparently because it has not come up in either trial. JM did not use Dworkin to indicate anything about the 6/4 pics.

FYI, Dworkin got the Helio June 2010. It had the 5/2 texts on it, and it had the phone recordings on it. So as for the second Helio phone that "replaced" the first "stolen one," no one as spoken on that one in trial--to my knowledge. Dworkin said he recorded the sex tape off the phone through a jack directly into his computer, so if the segments are out of order, or he decided to merge calls that shouldn't be, we have no way of knowing because JM had Melendez testify that he never received the Helio for independent analysis.
Thank you so much again for this post explained in plain English. I have much better understanding now regarding digital cameras.
 

peedoffinny

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