Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

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pocketaccent

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Me too!!! I love Hope5Mores posts along w/ all the others who are trying to make sense out of it all. I'm so fascinated by this case and Caylee Anthony's. (Heather Elvis and Cooper Harris are a close 2nd).

I love Hope4More's. Even better than Hope5More's.
 

NotMyselfNEMore

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The quotes below are from the Beth Karas subscription website.



The only text Travis sent on the 4th, at 12:13pm, is.......odd. Here's the exchange:


Chris H: (10:51 AM) Urgent! JM Success Symposium Seminar! Mark Smith is about to send out the link, so make sure yiur team has tickets...Buy now!! (web address) Get the word out fast! Forward! Email! Special ppl price! $67.

Travis: (12:13pm) Did you buy me one???


Maybe you'd have to read all the texts between Travis and Chris to get a sense of how they interacted, but T's reply was off. Out of character. Odd.

I read them, Hope - and I get what you mean. It does seem like an odd response from Travis to Chris, based on the way they interacted in general - I would have expected TA to mention that he'd reimburse Chris if he wanted a ticket, or 'hey - let me send you my cc#', or 'who else is speaking? should we go?'. Anything, just some elaboration.
Not impossible, but odd.... this response sounds strange, and in my opinion kind of feminine (for Travis, anyway) - as if he'd expect Chris to decide for him, and expect he'd go - they didn't interact like that as far as I see - JMO, MOO

Of course, I'm probably reading way too much into that text!
 

krkrjx

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That's an interesting thought. I think a PC or Laptop movie editing application could probably capture stills off of a movie file but not sure if the camera could do it once recorded as a video.

That one photo is etched in my mind forever unfortunately. It has always bothered me.

Another possible is maybe she set the camera to take a picture automatically every X amount of time. Which could be why the camera took a picture on the floor by itself.

I do think some of the photos were transferred to the camera card OR her laptop. I think she had compatibility issues with the format which would explain why only thumbnails for some.

I flip flop with whether she was planning to take the camera and make it look like the robbers took it OR she was trying to wipe the memory clean of any picture of her once she got what she needed off the camera. I think what may have happened is she got blood on the camera and so decided to take it with her but then let it rest on top of washer and it fell in during the cycle because door to washer was left up (much discussed a long time ago as a possible). And she was too dumb to realize where the camera was and finally had to leave because it was getting late.

I think she wanted to get the pictures as proof that he liked her and she liked him and could not be the killer if she ever needed to use the pictures as proof of that.

I flip flopped so much on timeline that I don't even know what I think any
more. LOL

This may not fit into what is known but my general opinion is I think she shot him first right around the time of that disturbing photo. I think her plan was to use the gun that she brought and I think it jammed on her after that first shot.

I think the casing in blood can be explained by later pooling of the blood that went down the tile cracks like a river and pooled all around that casing. Just one of the theories I had a long time ago about why there was no blood on top of that casing and if shot was first.

I then think he slumped in shower and after she realized the gun jammed and would not shoot anymore then she ran out of the area to go get another weapon the knife from either her purse or from the kitchen.

By the time she got back I think Travis had crawled out of the shower and managed to pull himself up to look at the damage he suffered in the mirror. It was then he coughed and spit up blood onto the mirror sink area. Right about that moment Jodi is behind him with the knife and stabbed him in the back. He collapses to the floor and she is wildly following him and stabbing him and jumping back after each stab. He may have rolled over on his back once or twice and she would jump in and stab him but then jump back to avoid him.
could be how he got some hand wounds and front wounds.

Finally as he is crawling near the end of the hall she reaches around and slices his throat while over him.

Then she drags him to the shower after waiting to make sure he didn't move anymore.

Sorry if this is kind of rambled. I am not sure what I think anymore. LOL
Maybe none of it makes sense because JA was messing up big time during her perfect plan.

Not too rambled for me...interesting read, actually.

There are many aspects of this crime as well as before and after that have loose ends for me but one thing I am pretty sure of (I know others will disagree so I will stress this is my OPINION only) is that the killer did not shoot first. I base that partly on what the autopsy report said but MOSTLY on how I interpret the killer's personality and probable frame of mind at the time.

Killer Arias would not have shot Travis in the head first; if he had also suffered gunshot wounds in, say, an arm, a leg, or a shoulder, I might concede she attacked him first with the gun. But he was shot only once, in the head--and a head wound could have been immediately fatal. It wasn't, but she could not have known in advance that it wouldn't be and I firmly believe with all my heart and soul that the killer needed him to suffer. She wanted--in fact needed him to know what was happening to him and who was doing it. She would not have risked him dying or even losing consciousness by something as clean and relatively painless as a single gunshot.

But that's just my take...and I am certainly not attempting to re-open the gunshot first argument, as I will never buy it, mainly for the reasons stated above. It just does not fit in at all with the killer's personality and intentions toward her victim as I interpret them.

JMO. MOO. IMO.
 

Hope4More

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Did he know she was coming? Fitting in June texts with calls etc. on her road trip to kill him.


June 1-june 2

10:49pm. She texts him to please call her, she has something to tell him, then 3 minutes later says “oh, things, plural,” with a happy face. A minute after her second text he replies and asks- “what is it?”

She doesn’t text back until 2:06AM, telling him to hurry up, that’s she’s getting sleepy. According to phone records, though, she also calls him 4 times between 1-3AM, the longest is 17 seconds.

At 2:12am she prompts him again with zzzzz’s, then 7 minutes later texts her “poem”

2:30AM, TA tells her he’s in the middle of something but will call her as soon as he can.

She replies a minute later, telling him, OK, T-dogg, and asking him- did U like my poem?

At 3AM TA does call her and they speak for about 18 minutes. For whatever reason they get off the phone, but he calls her back almost immediately and they speak for another 41 minutes.

4:03AM she calls him. That call lasts for 2 minutes 48 seconds. At 5:39AM the killer is on her way out of Yreka, heading for Redding to rent a car. She calls him 2 more times on the 2nd:

She calls him at 4:03pm and at 5:28pm, as she is driving between Redding and Lodi, CA. Each calls lasts under a couple of minutes.
At 4:03 exactly Travis is texting about helping round up votes for Mimi’s last minute run for the job of justice of the peace. He spent most of June 2 working on this, finishing up at around 5:18pm. He’s texting others around 5:28, but is theoretically able to answer the phone at 5:28.

June 3.

The final calls she makes to Travis are on June 3. She calls him from the Monterey-Salinas area, after she has made her bank deposits and before she buys that gas can at Wal-Mart:

Her call at 12:57 pm (17 seconds). Travis is texting with Brooke at that time (and before and after). She’s asked him to go on a camping trip that night, he says yes, she has cancelled the thought by the time of the killer’s call, because can’t get group together on a weeknight.

Her call at 1:51PM (2 minutes 50 seconds). Travis has just finished asking Brooke who knows they have been facebooking and texting. She asks why. He says he was just curious what she might have heard from others about him.

At 2:11 Travis has moved on to texting more about Mimi and the JOP office.

The last call she makes to Travis is at 8:16PM, in or near Pasadena; the call lasts 2 minutes and 9 seconds.

Travis is texting with Regan. He sends text at 8:15, she replies at 8:16. He doesn’t reply to this text.

The next incoming or outgoing text is at 12:46 am from Maria saying goodnite. He replies to her at 2:02am.
 

RickshawFan

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The quotes below are from the Beth Karas subscription website.



The only text Travis sent on the 4th, at 12:13pm, is.......odd. Here's the exchange:


Chris H: (10:51 AM) Urgent! JM Success Symposium Seminar! Mark Smith is about to send out the link, so make sure yiur team has tickets...Buy now!! (web address) Get the word out fast! Forward! Email! Special ppl price! $67.

Travis: (12:13pm) Did you buy me one???


Maybe you'd have to read all the texts between Travis and Chris to get a sense of how they interacted, but T's reply was off. Out of character. Odd.

Jodi wrote it.
 

Hope4More

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I read them, Hope - and I get what you mean. It does seem like an odd response from Travis to Chris, based on the way they interacted in general - I would have expected TA to mention that he'd reimburse Chris if he wanted a ticket, or 'hey - let me send you my cc#', or 'who else is speaking? should we go?'. Anything, just some elaboration.
Not impossible, but odd.... this response sounds strange, and in my opinion kind of feminine (for Travis, anyway) - as if he'd expect Chris to decide for him, and expect he'd go - they didn't interact like that as far as I see - JMO, MOO

Of course, I'm probably reading way too much into that text!


We both are, then, because I'm holding to my sense that there's something hinky about that text.

Mark Smith was the new PPL regional manager and a really sore topic for Travis, not to mention a source of concern. Chris and Travis had just exchanged emails on PPL strategy and politics, and seem to have been working out some differences.

The only straight forward explanation I can see is if Chris sent his text as a joke, and if Travis was responding in kind, but there is a serious shortage of lol's in the exchange, including one from Chris after TA replied.

If not a joke.... Travis and Chris always- as in always -spoke about PPL earnestly, as 2 businessmen committed to PPL. Travis responding to a Mark Smith imperative for his team with a request for Chris to buy the product for him is, IMO, flat out bizarre.
 

RickshawFan

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LOL..I can see JM now. This was clipped from the attached, and one of the bar complaints against Juan
"He kept making references about the attorneys making things up and compared us to Don Quixote lancing at windmills.”


I laughed when I read that. Imagine calling someone unethical 'cos they reference Cervantes! Neanderthal attorneys upset with Juan's highbrow and "elitist" references......They probably didn't get it when they were in the courtroom, so never objected. Then they got home and looked it up....For shame! They'd better be glad JM didn't get into the low-brow Disneyesque Snow White and the Seven Dwarves cross: they would have been completely blindsided by his genius. As were we all.....

Though I think I finally figured it out. I think he might have meant something as simple as to suggest a) ALV can see her definition of domestic violence anywhere, including in SnowWhitedom (when in fact it was the evil step mother who was guilty of domestic violence, b) she's vague and twists things however she wants against even nice men like dwarfs, and even when violence is perpetrated by a female, and c) is living in la la Disney land, she's so off in the fantastical. I believe he was really pushing on the simplest, namely c), but perhaps hoping that a) and b) were conveyed as well.

Incidentally, not to be put off, ALV still gives the Snow White talk. No doubt she's embellished it.

Oh, and PS.... Juan's physique is a close approximation of Sancho Panza's?
 

RickshawFan

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Not too rambled for me...interesting read, actually.

There are many aspects of this crime as well as before and after that have loose ends for me but one thing I am pretty sure of (I know others will disagree so I will stress this is my OPINION only) is that the killer did not shoot first. I base that partly on what the autopsy report said but MOSTLY on how I interpret the killer's personality and probable frame of mind at the time.

Killer Arias would not have shot Travis in the head first; if he had also suffered gunshot wounds in, say, an arm, a leg, or a shoulder, I might concede she attacked him first with the gun. But he was shot only once, in the head--and a head wound could have been immediately fatal. It wasn't, but she could not have known in advance that it wouldn't be and I firmly believe with all my heart and soul that the killer needed him to suffer. She wanted--in fact needed him to know what was happening to him and who was doing it. She would not have risked him dying or even losing consciousness by something as clean and relatively painless as a single gunshot.

But that's just my take...and I am certainly not attempting to re-open the gunshot first argument, as I will never buy it, mainly for the reasons stated above. It just does not fit in at all with the killer's personality and intentions toward her victim as I interpret them.

JMO. MOO. IMO.

I believe she shot first and last. The gun jammed the first time. She reached for it in the end out of desperation since she thought the knife hadn't worked. It unjammed.
 

Hope4More

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I love Hope4More's. Even better than Hope5More's.



LOL.

I agree with WasntMe..... how good it is to be able to share this last bit of working out remaining puzzles. I'm SO glad and grateful to be here with fellow sleuthers who still care. :)
 

Hope4More

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Jodi wrote it.

That seems like one of several sad or bad possibilities. A coded message for help from Travis to Chris is another.

I'm wondering if she turned his phone off without his knowledge. I think I prefer to believe the timeline as is, sex and all, than to contemplate her overtly terrorizing him before she killed him.
 

wasnt_me

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Thanks for the info about Melendez, camera stick, and washer. About last time computer was accessed in the AM- the time you cite is later than the 3 times connected to YouTube videos. Was there another activity after the videos? Don't remember that, but then again most testimony relating to anything electronic didn't stick with me even at the time.

I don't think TA was doing anything "hinky" in any case. He was struggling with a virus infected computer and no doubt was understandably paranoid that the killer might still be able to hack his accounts and snoop.


As for whether or not he waited up or knew she was coming at that hour...I really don't think so, but acknowledge that is based largely on assumptions.

She knew his habits and might well have been able to monitor his cell phone activity. At 4 am she could have been relatively confident she wouldn't be detected as she waited in her car to see his bedroom lights be turned on then off as he finally went to sleep.

An excited Naps being greeted in the garage or office wouldn't have woken up a crashed TA upstairs, nor his roomies, IMO.

I say it was hinky because Travis and Chris discussed not clicking on your google ads because google would know and shut you down. So when I see him looking at a video about browsing anonymously before he seemingly clicks to his site through a google ad link, it looks hinky, but I don't know anything about those links and if that's what he was really doing.

Dworkin's testimony gives us all of Travis internet activity in the am of June 4th. Last access was 435am. It went like this (if I typed notes correctly as I listened):

04:08:11--YT.com
4:11:04--YT.com daft hands better hard, faster, stronger
4:15:13--yt.com daft hands-double speed, faster, better
4:24:00-- yt.com free webproxity-air-proxy.com
04:33:55--www.travisalexander.net. googlesync/google syndication.com
04:35:45--travisalexander.net

oh, and sorry, but the links on 4:33 and 4:35 are not exactly right as written. I forgot that I told myself to not worry about it and just go screen capture the docs later. I believe Dworkin was day 13 and the papers were put up on the screen if you want to double-check what my half asleep self noted. :blushing: YT above indicates he was watching youtube.

I remember a text from her back at the end of March or first of April where she said something like Naps was so excited to see her and she hadn't seen him like that in a while or something of that nature. So it gave me the impression that Naps would be animated. Whether it would wake anyone up, I don't know. I do wonder where his phone was that the 553am text from Brooke didn't wake him up either, though -- unless he was awake and talking with Jodi and not replying to Brooke because of Jodi.

I tracked that drive to his house. It's 6 hours--if she drove 64 miles an hour on average. So that's a 3am arrival time. Would she drive faster than 64? I don't know.

It's a lot to this case. Watching the testimony even several times makes you find something new. I can't imagine how the jurors felt. If I had been a juror, I promise you, it would have been a month to get a verdict if I was sitting in there with all that evidence. I mean, I already know what my vote would be, but I would have sifted through every bit of it anyway. I have a feeling you would have, too, right? :)
 

wasnt_me

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Why did she bring a gun if she meant to kill him with a knife?

It hit me last night.....I think she played out various revenge scenarios in her head beforehand, and one involved a gun. Remember TA telling the story of how he had almost died when someone held a gun to his head? But that the gun hadn't gone off?

Maybe she had him at gunpoint to force him to sit down in the shower. JM stipulated she wasn't holding a weapon, but that doesn't mean she wasn't, only that he chose not to argue the point.

She didn't want him to die quickly or easily, IMO. I can imagine her holding the gun and telling him she was going to kill him, taunting him for most of those 44 seconds between him sitting and the accidental pic of the ceiling.... then pulling the trigger, but with no bullet in the gun, and as he reacted to that, pulling out a knife and stabbing him instead.

Why did she bring it? My thought is that she needed it in case she got caught by a roommate or anyone else during or after the commission of the crime. Same reason she needed a gun when she tried to "flee" while camping. :facepalm:

I believe she wanted to handle travis with the knife. I also imagine her being upstairs when Enrique came home. I imagine her behind Travis' door, holding the gun until Enrique left, waiting and if Enrique figured out she was in there, she would have shot him. I can also imagine that since the gun was out, and she was mad at Travis for being so hard to pull to the shower, she shot in the head at that point. Travis could have been in any position with his head lopping in any number of awkward way that would make that shot happen.

But what's weird about it being a shot in the shower is that Travis was in the corner of the shower, naturally facing the front of the shower. If she had a gun on him, he'd be staring at her the whole time, making his right temple face the wall, not her, just like in his last facial shot where his head is turned, his temple faces the wall and he's looking dead at her. She would had had to make him look at the front shower wall or make him turn his head before she shot him if the gunshot was first. If it were me, I wouldn't have voluntarily taken my eyes off her, so....
 

wasnt_me

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Thank you so much again for this post explained in plain English. I have much better understanding now regarding digital cameras.

Thanks. You can test stuff with your pics, too, just to see. I didn't use my memory stick because I was too lazy to go get it out of the camera, so my tests were just with my tablet's internal memory. But I think the important takeaway is that a computer will log things in more detail due to its size, type of operating system, etc, than a tablet, and in general, a camera has no comparative operating system to perform logging tasks. You can't change the dates and times on a pic (I mean the metadata or exfi) without the computer, and the computer's gonna log that you did it, if you figured out how to do it. I tried to edit my "properties" info on a pic. The computer said it saved it, but when I pulled it back up, I kept seeing same old dates. I think of metadata as an invisible tattoo for the photo.

I just really don't think Jodi had the time, motive, inclination, tools, or whatever to be changing all that stuff on some old pics. Dworkin and Melendez also said they check unallocated space on both computers. They also checked with incase for hidden files on the computers. So if the sex pics had ever been on either or transferred through either, we'd know. FYI, the penis pics came off Jodi's hard drive. We don't even have a date for them because JM objected to no one knowing whose penis it could be and I believe the judge sustained it, meaning they weren't admitted into evidence, even though, it was weird because Willmot went back and said something about the pics with evidence numbers after the objection was sustained. If anyone knows what that was about, let me know. It was day 13 of 1st trial.
 

wasnt_me

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Jodi wrote it.

I'll tell you what I think Jodi wrote:

June 4th:

7:14pm Jonah--Hey man. People on the conference call waiting. Everything okay?
7:48pm Jonah-Yah, I figured it out. I feel silly now, having sent the last text. Oops.

What is Jonah responding to? Unless the 7:14 text was a group text, why is he telling the dead travis who was not on the call that he felt silly for leaving what I assume is the 714pm text? I really think Jodi was in the house with Enrique.
 

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Thanks. You can test stuff with your pics, too, just to see. I didn't use my memory stick because I was too lazy to go get it out of the camera, so my tests were just with my tablet's internal memory. But I think the important takeaway is that a computer will log things in more detail due to its size, type of operating system, etc, than a tablet, and in general, a camera has no comparative operating system to perform logging tasks. You can't change the dates and times on a pic (I mean the metadata or exfi) without the computer, and the computer's gonna log that you did it, if you figured out how to do it. I tried to edit my "properties" info on a pic. The computer said it saved it, but when I pulled it back up, I kept seeing same old dates. I think of metadata as an invisible tattoo for the photo.

I just really don't think Jodi had the time, motive, inclination, tools, or whatever to be changing all that stuff on some old pics. Dworkin and Melendez also said they check unallocated space on both computers. They also checked with incase for hidden files on the computers. So if the sex pics had ever been on either or transferred through either, we'd know. FYI, the penis pics came off Jodi's hard drive. We don't even have a date for them because JM objected to no one knowing whose penis it could be and I believe the judge sustained it, meaning they weren't admitted into evidence, even though, it was weird because Willmot went back and said something about the pics with evidence numbers after the objection was sustained. If anyone knows what that was about, let me know. It was day 13 of 1st trial.

IIRC, they didn't have Jodi's computer, though. She could easily have had it with her.
 

krkrjx

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Why did she bring it? My thought is that she needed it in case she got caught by a roommate or anyone else during or after the commission of the crime. Same reason she needed a gun when she tried to "flee" while camping. :facepalm:

I believe she wanted to handle travis with the knife. I also imagine her being upstairs when Enrique came home. I imagine her behind Travis' door, holding the gun until Enrique left, waiting and if Enrique figured out she was in there, she would have shot him. I can also imagine that since the gun was out, and she was mad at Travis for being so hard to pull to the shower, she shot in the head at that point. Travis could have been in any position with his head lopping in any number of awkward way that would make that shot happen.

But what's weird about it being a shot in the shower is that Travis was in the corner of the shower, naturally facing the front of the shower. If she had a gun on him, he'd be staring at her the whole time, making his right temple face the wall, not her, just like in his last facial shot where his head is turned, his temple faces the wall and he's looking dead at her. She would had had to make him look at the front shower wall or make him turn his head before she shot him if the gunshot was first. If it were me, I wouldn't have voluntarily taken my eyes off her, so....

Maybe Killer brought two weapons to the scene to make it look like more than one person was involved. That's where my thoughts went first but after finding out more and more about Killer's odd ways of viewing things and her inability to act and react in unfamiliar situations like a normal human being, I decided she probably used the gun on him as a final expression of hatred. He was already dead when he was shot but maybe in the process of dying some audible sounds occurred making her think he was still alive. Or maybe not, and she shot as a final FU to the man who had forced her to do this deed. She had been hating him for awhile but she hated him all the more that fateful day because it was all his fault that things had come to this.

IMO
 

wasnt_me

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I read them, Hope - and I get what you mean. It does seem like an odd response from Travis to Chris, based on the way they interacted in general - I would have expected TA to mention that he'd reimburse Chris if he wanted a ticket, or 'hey - let me send you my cc#', or 'who else is speaking? should we go?'. Anything, just some elaboration.
Not impossible, but odd.... this response sounds strange, and in my opinion kind of feminine (for Travis, anyway) - as if he'd expect Chris to decide for him, and expect he'd go - they didn't interact like that as far as I see - JMO, MOO

Of course, I'm probably reading way too much into that text!

I'm not sure about this because it was a question, and question invites a response, meaning more texting from Jodi. Of course she might have looked forward to continuing to pretend to be Travis to Chris. Who knows. He was apparently alive, so unless the phone was off right after she did it, he'd see that she did it if he happened to hear the phone again. That would definitely make him mad because it's invading his privacy again and in his presence no less.

If we can trust that absence of texts that afternoon between women he regularly texted at that time of the day, I believe this absence of texts signifies that Jodi was there, and so he wasn't actively reaching out to text people that day. I find it hard to imagine travis phone wasn't somewhere near him at all times. The way he's on the phone, he seems as if he'd be "naked" without it and looking for it. Which is why, if he was alive until the shower pics, I don't think she hid his phone or had it. That would go against the supposed "trust" she'd violated many times, and she'd be thrown out of that house before she could do what she'd come to do.

Of course, she could have asked him, since it was the first time in a long time that they'd seen each other, to leave the phone in the office after Chris' text.
 

wasnt_me

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IIRC, they didn't have Jodi's computer, though. She could easily have had it with her.

They did. They just claimed it was "damaged." Listen to Dworkin, day 12 and 13 first trial. He had a mirror image of the "damaged harddrive."

It might be where they got the G-chats from. Remember, Jodi is the "me" in the g-chats with Ryan. Unless they got them from google, but no one said Google records had been subpoenaed. No google person testified on behalf of those chats, so....

The only device I think doesn't ever get mentioned is Helio phone number 2. Did it exist, even? Did she lie in the journal about losing the phone with the intention of ditching the phone? I can't see how that would make sense unless after talking to Flores, she decided she had to lose it. I don't know. That second phone bothers the crap out of me.

All right. I have to do job work. But I want to do this case instead. I gotta make myself go back to work......
 

Hope4More

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I'm not sure about this because it was a question, and question invites a response, meaning more texting from Jodi. Of course she might have looked forward to continuing to pretend to be Travis to Chris. Who knows. He was apparently alive, so unless the phone was off right after she did it, he'd see that she did it if he happened to hear the phone again. That would definitely make him mad because it's invading his privacy again and in his presence no less.

If we can trust that absence of texts that afternoon between women he regularly texted at that time of the day, I believe this absence of texts signifies that Jodi was there, and so he wasn't actively reaching out to text people that day. I find it hard to imagine travis phone wasn't somewhere near him at all times. The way he's on the phone, he seems as if he'd be "naked" without it and looking for it. Which is why, if he was alive until the shower pics, I don't think she hid his phone or had it. That would go against the supposed "trust" she'd violated many times, and she'd be thrown out of that house before she could do what she'd come to do.

Of course, she could have asked him, since it was the first time in a long time that they'd seen each other, to leave the phone in the office after Chris' text.



I think Travis was dead when that text to Chris was sent. The text itself doesn't make sense, and it makes even less sense that Travis would reply to just that one text from Chris but not to the 2 received earlier, from Brooke and from Maria.

I also don't believe that Travis would have gone all day without sending more than one single text. The killer supposedly took a shower at some point. We're to believe he didn't check his phone then, didn't send a quick text to Maria or to Regan that he'd be in touch later? Nah.

I think she snuck in after he went to bed and surprised him as he took a shower in the morning after he woke up and put his sheets in the washer.
 
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