Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[wasnt_me]

Just had to add before I go to sleep, most of the stuff JA writes in her journal in May seem to correlate with her conversations with Flores before her arrest. Between her talks with Flores and the info she was gleaning out of others, she constructed May's entries as if Flores was stupid and couldn't figure out he'd just talked to her about most of that stuff.

Some of the other stuff, she might have gotten from questioning people in AZ and Utah about what the police wanted to know. I really find it hard to believe she didn't realize the police would go through his emails and facebook. But on her call with flores, he subtly warned her not to go in it because she'd get caught. He preserved evidence with that warning, so she had to go back to her journal and make up reasons for what they'd find.

I love the way she tells Flores she didn't go in Travis' email and what she really did was close the open browser window. Flores says okay, and we're getting a warrant and will be able to see if you logged in there from Yreka. "I'm telling you right now that I did." Huh? You just said you didn't. Busted.

I knew she was using her May and June writings to cover her crime, but now I think I see when she wrote them and how they were directed at Flores to prove what she said in the phone calls with him. I might be slow on the draw, but I wasn't correlating that the information in them is exact stuff she'd told Flores. Her messages with Ryan post murder might also be. What's funny, though, is how much she hyped up Ryan, but in the journal, I don't even think she mentions him at all from June 1st through the end of the trip. "Utah was awesome" was about all we got. The mind of a killer...interesting. She didn't go into detail about Ryan because 1, he wasn't the real focus, and 2, she could not explain it to Flores when he asked what meetings she'd gone to in Utah.

I am really of the mindset that she really, really didn't think they'd suspect her. Therefore, any idea that she did any planting of pictures on his camera is really a stretch. She did not want any trace of her in AZ, and she took the pics to lower Travis' guard. She didn't think deleted pics would be recovered or she would have taken that memory card.

 

[ICit]

About the time stamp on the photos: If Travis was the one that set the time wrong on his camera then there might be an easy way to tell. Testimony said there were lots of other travel photos by Travis on the camera. If photos taken while sunny were time stamped at 11:30 pm and the sun was out in the photos then he had it set wrong.
I keep in mind that JA had everything that her attorneys had to make her story fit to the evidence.
I also remember testimony that Travis had fallen once and lost his temple recommend but according to his friends was just about to get it back.
I believe her sexual saga was mostly made up with evidence of the relationship planted by the murderess herself. We know she was pretending to be him in some of the messaging.

 

[krkrjx]

I agree. I don't think the camera was set pm instead of am. I'm not even sure JA could have been there and naked by 1 or 2am. She was 6 hours away at 9pm. I do believe that they had sex. He pretty much told us that he'd fall for her okie-doke himself when he was arguing with her on the 26th. I see no reason not to believe him. In fact, he was saying that he was even done pretending to himself that he wasn't in that cycle. As H4M said, he was back to talking to her and texting her back as early at the 30th.

Just like he said on the g chat, "You know all it would take was to hear your voice. You made sure I heard you," or however he phrased it--it worked the same way in person. She showed up, he was sucked back in.

Other theories keep involving JA wanting to put old pictures on the camera to make it "look like" they had sex that day, but we have to remember--her first alibi was that she was NEVER THERE. It wouldn't serve her to put pictures of herself,dated june 4th, on the camera if she believed she'd covered her tracks so well that people would believe her when she said she was never there. It wasn't until Flores busted her with the pictures that she eventually admitted that she was there.

I just wonder why she'd bother with the gas cans, the hair color, the silent phone, etc if she wanted to plant on his camera pics that proved they were having sex that day. I wonder why she'd plant them and then erase them. If defies logic.

We also don't know JA's motive. I, for one, think she struggled with it. She loves the attention when he's having sex with her. It is one thing to plan murder, but quite another to get there and just do it. She loved him--whatever her sick version of love is. I still think Enrique being home messed up her plan. Then spending time with Travis made it harder to do it. I don't believe there was any way she was that close to travis and waited outside all night. Not after being away from him for two months.

Maybe--just conjecture--she went in, slept, spent the time with him and decided against it until he whipped out the floor cleaner and started acting like she needed to go. Then she could have been mad that she'd decided to spare him, she'd had sex with him, and he was discarding her. She got mad enough to put her plan back in motion.

I don't know that it was as simple as she'd thought it would be and there's always the possibility that her lovesick emotions for him prolonged his life more hours. We just don't know.

I also think the killer wanted things to go a certain way that would allow her to spare him. Not sure if that is exactly what you are saying but for me the gist is this: She planned to kill him because as things had been going for months at least, he needed to die. And she was pizzed enough at his making it necessary for her to kill him that he needed to die in pain and agony. Not just a bullet to the head while he slept--no, he did not deserve that consideration. She plotted, planned, put her plans into action when she set out on the road to Mesa.

HOWEVER, it was still in her thoughts that things could turn around for their relationship in a manner that would let him off the hook. At least for now. Maybe he would relent and offer to have her go to Cancun. Maybe he would profess his love for her and promise to stop being so foolish as to entertain thoughts of having to continue his search for a wife. Maybe this...or that...would happen and she could breathe a sigh of relief that he was not forcing her to annihilate him.

But that didn't happen. He was set on their split being permanent and if anything he seemed now to have drifted even further away from any possibility of a reconciliation. So, that was it. He had to be dealt with. And deal with him, she did. In a brutal, horrific attack that did what she intended--kill him, but punish him first.

I am not doubting the time of the crime, just considering that there is so much about that day and the days/weeks leading up to it that we cannot know for certain. We can assume, and probably do assume correctly on some things but, when dealing with a killer of this ilk it is best to keep an open mind, imo. That's all I am doing. Some theories I have seen posted make sense to me and I have to consider the possibilities.

Nothing changes the outcome. He died a horrific death at her hand and she is in prison for life. A different camera setting is not going to change any of it. Nor would it shed more light on her motive. We can guess about that and certainly someone has hit the nail on the head, but only the killer knows for sure.

 

[Hope4More]

About the time stamp on the photos: If Travis was the one that set the time wrong on his camera then there might be an easy way to tell. Testimony said there were lots of other travel photos by Travis on the camera. If photos taken while sunny were time stamped at 11:30 pm and the sun was out in the photos then he had it set wrong.
I keep in mind that JA had everything that her attorneys had to make her story fit to the evidence.
I also remember testimony that Travis had fallen once and lost his temple recommend but according to his friends was just about to get it back.
I believe her sexual saga was mostly made up with evidence of the relationship planted by the murderess herself. We know she was pretending to be him in some of the messaging.

Exactly. I think JM stipulated that the 2 had sex on the 4th because doing so served strategic purposes. It would be a different thing entirely to argue a timeline he knew to be false, and I think LE had to have looked extremely closely at the camera evidence, given how central it was to the case.

 

[RickshawFan]

What? She was at the purple plum again, too? Please don't make me return to the ALV days! But I guess they aren't as bad as that other woman during the retrial. I'll give ALV that.

Travis kept asking if that girl had a job, so she'd start paying him back. Was the return to PPlum before or after the murder?

So you're saying workers at CR actually saw her there? She didn't make up the job? Because the way "Margaritaville" kept getting mentioned, I had to wonder if CR job was even real. Heck, I still do, even if ALV talked to anyone.

Look, I need to know. No one addresses this--did she have two helio phones in her car on that trip? I have serious problems with her and these phones of hers. And I think she was using the "stolen phone" with another service or something. I don't know. I'm suspicious of why her 6/3 pics are on the stolen phone, but there was a phone active in the car at the same time.

I listened to the cross of ALV again recently 2x! It was spellbinding because of JM's maneuvering, but also to watch someone sit there and deliberately be so totally wrong. The PP stuff was one of those items ALV chose to minimize or ignore. JM kept snagging her on it.

I wondered if ALV didn't have a personality disorder herself, since she has no respect for boundaries. JSS quite clearly couldn't stand ALV...

I'm pretty sure JA worked at the PP after the murder. She had worked there before during her teens. The staff and manager at PP did not like her at all.

I suppose she could have worked at PP before the murder as well. I can't remember exact dates.

Officer Mendes testified about Casa Ramos, but CR interviews (with Mendes?) were also part of ALV's testimony.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Good Evening Sleuthers! It's been months since I've been here and have spent a lot of today catching up on some great posts. I don't like the thought of getting sucked back into the JA black hole of grossness, but I've definitely missed the conversations here. So now for a question, about as Off Topic as possible: Usually I can use Google reasonably well but I've been stumped today looking for information about the Darren Mack murder trial from back in '08. I was watching a 48 Hrs. or Dateline or something and there was a 2 part episode about that bizarre trial. Arias was/is such an amazing liar who lies and then lies to cover her lies and then lies to exaggerate her lies and lies to get out of lying messes and then lies to spin more salacious tales and when not salacious enough she lies to get more disgusting filth out, then lies to embellish once again. This guy, Darren Mack, from what I could tell from this show is probably up there in the same stratosphere of expert liar as Arias! I googled until I could google no more to try to find video from the trial. It was televised and live streamed, covered in part at least by In Session at the time, but I can't find any archived video of the trial, just a few little snippets. Anyone out there in Sleuth Land know how or where or if there is a way to find this? BTW I also you-tubed for hours searching. This guy's outlandish, horrific, and disgusting web of lies he used to dirty up his wife, who he brutally murdered (in self defense of course)seems to be in the Arias league of disgusting. I am interested in watching the trial but after all my searching I'm thinking the trial coverage, although live streamed, was not archived. If anyone knows differently and has the magic touch to find the trial, I would be most appreciative! I would even share some of the still fresh, still incredibly delicious and absolute best Chex Mix EVER made (using my late mother's incredible recipe that turned wonderful Chex Mix into a heavenly delight)since I still miraculously have 2 generous containers left, which is scary considering I was home alone during the holidays and therefore the gigantic recipe that makes enough for multiple families was ALL FOR ME! There should be gallons and gallons left! Anyway, willing to share if the info is good! Thanks!!

The 48 Hours Mystery was titled "Caught In The Crossfire" I haven't found any archives of the actual trial, but I did find this. Hope it helps. IIRC, it was a two part series. This shows them all.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/caught-in-the-crossfire-01-05-2008/

 

[pocketaccent]

I think some of us have issues with the timeline provided during the trial because it just doesn't make sense, not because we don't trust JM's words or LE's work. I've always wondered if JM also had this problem for himself but had to go with what he presented or accepted because he had no way proving otherwise.

For me the greatest and the main reason I seek for other possibilities is that the time between 5:30pm and the time when Enrique came home is too short for JA to clean herself, plant,erase, and manipulate evidences.

Another reason is the sex photos. I'd like it very much if Travis did not have sex with her on June 4. Subconsciously I need for Travis to have stuck to his guns and not been weak for his murderer.

 

[Hope4More]

Put together texts and timeline with the police report of gun theft on May 28th.


May 26th phone, text and gchat confrontation ends the morning of the 26th. They are not in contact again by text until May 30th, on which day she sends him a handful of texts.

Travis goes back to his life on May 26. He tells friends he has had a tough day, his punching bag takes a beating, he texts a bunch of folks he is looking for something to do that night. He doesn't sleep well that night..stays awake til 6am, then sleeps til noon on the 27th.

The night of the 27th TA computer alerts him that it is under attack. Windows stops working. He installs Spybot for the first time.

Fast forward to May 28. The killer's grandparents leave the house at 10am and return around 3:30. The police arrive before 5pm, the killer is close enough to the house to return a "short time" after she is called.

10am is TA's 11am on the 28th. By 11am TA has texted numerous friends that he has left Lisa a funny VM and he is sure she will return his call. His friends wish him the best. Lots of Lisa texting going on, and on into that day.

Around 1pm TA time, while the killer's grandparents are still out, TA texts Taylor about Brooke, the new lady he's super excited about. Sometime on the 28th he also speaks to Regan by phone about ditching Mimi and taking her to Cancun instead. He doesn't get confirmation until the next day
that the ticket can't be changed.

The only important exchange he has on the 28th that comes after the break in is his phone call with Lisa, and his announcement to friends that Lisa returned his call and he told her everything.

So....maybe the killer laid low on the 27th, but realized on the 28th (if she had access to his texts still) that TA had really moved on this time, that he preferred to take anyone BUT her to Cancun, and that Brooke could replace her in every last way and was genuinely a Mormon to boot. The whole enchilada package for Mormon wife candidate..

 

[Hope4More]

As an aside...Travis did not commit to going to the PPL event in Washington DC until May 27/28th, when Chris Hughes asks him about it. (This DC trip is mentioned on the "May 10th" sex tape).

Also, around this time TA seems to have had tentative plans at least to go to CA for the Hughes' baby blessing, the weekend of May 31-June 1.

 

[Hope4More]

Question....does anyone know who Jasmine is? The killer mentions a 12 week old Jasmine to TA on May 14, telling him he can put Jasmine in a cage/carrier and bring her -or it- to a street festival in Yreka that upcoming weekend. IIRC, she tells him "just joking, kinda" about the carrier. Jasmine doesn't come up before or after and TA obviously had no plans to be in Yreka that weekend anyway. Weird exchange.

 

[Colie]

What? She was at the purple plum again, too? Please don't make me return to the ALV days! But I guess they aren't as bad as that other woman during the retrial. I'll give ALV that.

Travis kept asking if that girl had a job, so she'd start paying him back. Was the return to PPlum before or after the murder?

So you're saying workers at CR actually saw her there? She didn't make up the job? Because the way "Margaritaville" kept getting mentioned, I had to wonder if CR job was even real. Heck, I still do, even if ALV talked to anyone.

Look, I need to know. No one addresses this--did she have two helio phones in her car on that trip? I have serious problems with her and these phones of hers. And I think she was using the "stolen phone" with another service or something. I don't know. I'm suspicious of why her 6/3 pics are on the stolen phone, but there was a phone active in the car at the same time.

The helio phone with the June 3 pictures the LE had. The one with the sex tape and the May 2 text messages only the DT had access too. LE never examined that phone. Hope this helps.

 

[T-4-2]

snip

Just had to add before I go to sleep, most of the stuff JA writes in her journal in May seem to correlate with her conversations with Flores before her arrest. Between her talks with Flores and the info she was gleaning out of others, she constructed May's entries as if Flores was stupid and couldn't figure out he'd just talked to her about most of that stuff.

And don't forget, Helpful Jodi was so proud of her little creative writing project that she had to make sure the cops knew how many journals there were and exactly where to find them.

[video]https://youtu.be/eMNd_-FGftM?t=28m26s[/video]

 

[geevee]

One of the reasons I've come to think Travis would not have had a picture-taking sex party with JA that day is - he knew Zach was off work and likely to be in and out of the house, he had the rental car to return (which he left around 8:30 a.m. to do) and returned for an hour between 3:00 and 4:00 p.m. The roommates had to go past the bonus room outside of Travis' to get to their rooms, the camera box was in his office and the bag was in the bonus room, so had they had this picture-shooting episode one of them would have likely had to go downstairs (possibly naked) to get the camera, leave the bag in the bonus room and go back into the bedroom, all the while not knowing if Zach had returned and was out and about the house.

Also another reason the office sex was a fabrication, Travis didn't know when Zach would be in and out (he had to walk past the office from the garage/laundry room to get to the stairs) and maybe catch them or hear them in the act. Another reason why the wash wasn't going when Enrique came home between 6:00 and 6:30, he couldn't have missed hearing the washer running since he had to walk past it from the garage to the laundry room (front door was locked) - she had to have done everything sooner than the shower picture time stamps would have us believe.

And, with the Spybot file activating at 1:44 p.m., the same time one of the nudies is time stamped, I have to question all of the time stamps. I do believe JM did the best he could with the evidence and timeline he had to work with, he couldn't prove some things otherwise and make sense of the whole picture. I don't question his methods (too much lol) because his intention was the same as ours, wanting as much of the truth told as possible and have her convicted for the crimes she committed. But I have always and still want every single one of her lies outed, it is the least we can do for Travis and his family.

 

[pocketaccent]

Other theories keep involving JA wanting to put old pictures on the camera to make it "look like" they had sex that day, but we have to remember--her first alibi was that she was NEVER THERE. It wouldn't serve her to put pictures of herself,dated june 4th, on the camera if she believed she'd covered her tracks so well that people would believe her when she said she was never there. It wasn't until Flores busted her with the pictures that she eventually admitted that she was there.

Snipped


I don't think anyone here believes JA tried to manipulate photos so that LE would find that they had sex on June 4.

What could have happened is:

-JA takes sex photos in late March or early April using Zach's Sony (I borrowed this idea from another poster). Travis could have borrowed Zach's camera also for his prior travels too.

-JA is unsuccessful in stealing Zach's camera but she steals the memory card

-Since then, JA yearns for her pictures..braids..holes...nude Travis- perfect for blackmailing/ruining him. But can't download since she doesn't have a Sony

- JA brings the memory card on June 4th, inserts into Travis's Sony, connect it to her own laptop and downloads/imports. Unbeknownst to her, time stamps are created on the memory card as if those photos were taken on the afternoon, June 4. (on day 13 of first trial, Lonnie Dworkin testifies something like this is possible.)

- Shower photos are also on the same card but the date and time stamps correlate to Travis's camera since those pictures are taken with his camera.

 

[ICit]

I am remembering that the nude photos were only in thumbnails, a format that was only on the nude photos. That screams to me that these were downloaded from another source.

 

[wasnt_me]

I also think the killer wanted things to go a certain way that would allow her to spare him. Not sure if that is exactly what you are saying but for me the gist is this: She planned to kill him because as things had been going for months at least, he needed to die. And she was pizzed enough at his making it necessary for her to kill him that he needed to die in pain and agony. Not just a bullet to the head while he slept--no, he did not deserve that consideration. She plotted, planned, put her plans into action when she set out on the road to Mesa.

HOWEVER, it was still in her thoughts that things could turn around for their relationship in a manner that would let him off the hook. At least for now. Maybe he would relent and offer to have her go to Cancun. Maybe he would profess his love for her and promise to stop being so foolish as to entertain thoughts of having to continue his search for a wife. Maybe this...or that...would happen and she could breathe a sigh of relief that he was not forcing her to annihilate him.

But that didn't happen. He was set on their split being permanent and if anything he seemed now to have drifted even further away from any possibility of a reconciliation. So, that was it. He had to be dealt with. And deal with him, she did. In a brutal, horrific attack that did what she intended--kill him, but punish him first.

I am not doubting the time of the crime, just considering that there is so much about that day and the days/weeks leading up to it that we cannot know for certain. We can assume, and probably do assume correctly on some things but, when dealing with a killer of this ilk it is best to keep an open mind, imo. That's all I am doing. Some theories I have seen posted make sense to me and I have to consider the possibilities.

Nothing changes the outcome. He died a horrific death at her hand and she is in prison for life. A different camera setting is not going to change any of it. Nor would it shed more light on her motive. We can guess about that and certainly someone has hit the nail on the head, but only the killer knows for sure.

You are saying what I'm saying exactly. This is one of those puzzles, though, that I'm afraid I can't put down. The very first puzzle i got a hold of like this -- and STILL can't put down is Jack the Ripper. I got onto that one in middle school.

Nothing changes Travis' outcome, and this is the thing that pisses me off most.

 

[wasnt_me]

I think some of us have issues with the timeline provided during the trial because it just doesn't make sense, not because we don't trust JM's words or LE's work. I've always wondered if JM also had this problem for himself but had to go with what he presented or accepted because he had no way proving otherwise.

For me the greatest and the main reason I seek for other possibilities is that the time between 5:30pm and the time when Enrique came home is too short for JA to clean herself, plant,erase, and manipulate evidences.

Another reason is the sex photos. I'd like it very much if Travis did not have sex with her on June 4. Subconsciously I need for Travis to have stuck to his guns and not been weak for his murderer.

I would like for Travis not to have had sex with her, too, but from the text messages with other women and from what he said about his weaknesses for her during that 25-26th ordeal, I accept it. I mean, he said himself that he walked away and then got sucked back in.

As far as the work of law enforcement, I'm very interested in what the negative opinions are. More for me to consider! Let me know. Thanks!

 

[wasnt_me]

Question....does anyone know who Jasmine is? The killer mentions a 12 week old Jasmine to TA on May 14, telling him he can put Jasmine in a cage/carrier and bring her -or it- to a street festival in Yreka that upcoming weekend. IIRC, she tells him "just joking, kinda" about the carrier. Jasmine doesn't come up before or after and TA obviously had no plans to be in Yreka that weekend anyway. Weird exchange.

I want to know, too. He responded as if he knew what she was talking about, too. It was bizarre. I believe this text happened the week she told him to forget coming later and come see her that weekend instead. I assumed she was trying to get him to come to Yreka, but I don't know if Travis having any other pets.

 

[RickshawFan]

I want to know, too. He responded as if he knew what she was talking about, too. It was bizarre. I believe this text happened the week she told him to forget coming later and come see her that weekend instead. I assumed she was trying to get him to come to Yreka, but I don't know if Travis having any other pets.

Maybe it's her pet and she's joking that TA might want to bring it along on her guided tour.

 

[Val1]

The helio phone with the June 3 pictures the LE had. The one with the sex tape and the May 2 text messages only the DT had access too. LE never examined that phone. Hope this helps.

Don't forget what was happening in JA's family at the time as well, shortly after the murder JA's lil sis got sent to some detox, possibly with some of the evidence(whether lil sis knew she might have evidence who knows, though it may help to explain where the first Helio disappeared to for two years, though the lil bro certainly claimed to know that the sex tape had been made specifically to ruin TA's future wife prospects).

Then there's the U-Haul truck that JA claims on April 6th about 8pm in Hollister to be "now full from floor to ceiling, front to back"(from BK's site) collected from who knows where let alone of what... what about the stuff she claimed she still had in storage in TA's garage, why not take that? Also, does anyone know what drawing it was(has anyone seen it?) that she had insisted TA sign "in ink" and then left behind that sparked the text argument on April 8th?