Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[Seaslug44]

WABC-TV reports that Oak Beach resident Dr. Charles P. Hackett was one of the last people to see Gilbert alive. Gilbert's mother told the station that she received a phone call from Hackett the day after she disappeared.
"He called me on the phone. He said he had a halfway house and that Shannan was there," Gilbert reportedly told the station. "She wanted to be off the streets and he was trying to help her."
Hackett, the former head of Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services and a former police surgeon, reportedly denies ever calling Gilbert's mother.
When asked about Hackett by a reporter on Wednesday, Dormer said "he's been very cooperative," though he did not mention the doctor by name.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/1...island-serial-killer-726616671/#ixzz20ktsXGvk

Very good. You have begun the journey down that road I was speaking about. So now let me point out big hole in the bucket that you'll need to patch up before it holds any water;

What you found appears at first to be a solid source of information. The only problem here is that you have an article written by FOX NEWS reporter Cristina Corbin who, in her race to impress her boss and her peers, rushed this article out as quickly as possible using information that she did not take the time to verify it's accuracy. She went so far as to quote her leading competitor "WABC-TV" as being the source of the information that Hackett was the last to see Gilbert alive and that they were told by MG that she received a call from Hackett the day after her daughter disappeared.

Now your next step down this road is to email Cristina Corbin and see what she writes back to you when you ask her who exactly at WABC-TV supplied her with this information. While you are waiting for her reply, you can do some research yourself to see if you can locate that WABC-TV report to confirm what Cristina Corbin has written.

I am so glad you are walking in my footprints because when you arrive at the end of this road you will be another person who will be able to verify for everyone all the information (and misinformation) that is out there regarding SG's death.

Thank you, my friend for embarking on this journey.

 

[Seaslug44]

Feels like the doctor may have been trying to buy time to clean up the mess and all the evidence. Could someone else have made the call from Doc's house trying to pass himself off as the doc? Something very fishy about this aspected of May 1, 2010.

Wait and see what Waltson discovers about the validity of that news article written by Cristina Corbin before you jump to any conclusions.

 

[nugzter]

Seaslug, your post #281 is the best written post on this entire LISK thread.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

The facts of this case then lead me to question under what circumstances does a person wind up dead but not murdered after a frantic call announcing that he/she was going to be killed. The answer I found was not under most circumstances unless the person has a known history of mental illness such as bipolar disorder. A little more research and I discover a long, long history of bipolar illness, refusal to take her medication to treat that illness, chronic use of cocaine & ectasy, a troubled childhood where she was removed from the care of her mother's home due to physical abuse and ANGER; lots and lots of anger. Her family, friends and neighbors all described this anger in the form of uncontrollable rages and emotional outbursts. Her rage and "episodes" were nothing new to MP because they had occured frequently (this WAS NOT the first time she ran from a client's home screaming and having one of her bipolar episodes).

Further sleuthing revealed that in addition to not taking her medication, being under huge amounts of stress, constantly putting herself in harm's way with her prostitution & drug use, she was clearly not healthy because she dropped a large amount of weight in a very short period of time. Further sleuthing revealed that she was at extremely high risk for heart attack, stroke as well as suicide due to all of the factors mentioned above.

Bottomline was that she clearly stopped caring about herself or her well being. She was in an abusive relationship that included severe violence and she didn't care about herself enough to get out of it.

BOTTOMLINE?

There is also another theory that would perfectly fit-in why she ended up dead. Because she found out something what others (high-profile people) are upto and what they do for fun that would jeopardize their lives if she was ever let out alive.

She did not stop caring about herself or she wouldn't end up as a hooker. She could have just been a homeless - she cared about her sisters and her mom. She bought gifts for them and she also planned to meet them for Mother's day.

 

[waltson]

The rumor for a while was the drifter said he liked to go to AC to get "laid or get paid" whatever that means.

Where did you hear that BKS?

 

[Tugela]

Sorry not personally attacking you Seaslug, but isn't the fact that Shannan said they were going to killer her still proof she was murdered?

No.

It is proof that she was paranoid however.

 

[Tugela]

[There is also another theory that would perfectly fit-in why she ended up dead. Because she found out something what others (high-profile people) are upto and what they do for fun that would jeopardize their lives if she was ever let out alive.

She did not stop caring about herself or she wouldn't end up as a hooker. She could have just been a homeless - she cared about her sisters and her mom. She bought gifts for them and she also planned to meet them for Mother's day.

Newp. What could she possibly have found out that someone didn't want her to know? That someone hired an escort to do what escorts do? Or are you trying to suggest that she accidently opened the "secret door"? Aside from the fact that there is not the slightest shred of any evidence for that, the probability of something like that happening is zero. One should not think that what happens in Hollywood's horror movies reflects real life, certainly it is not the basis for a credible theory.

As for caring for herself, there are two kinds of women who engage in prostitution. In one group, they are independent business women who are trying to create a better life for themselves. That might be buying their own home, paying for school, or supporting their children. These usually become escorts. These women usually have a goal they are working towards. The other group contains women who are mentally ill, who are addicted to various things, or have serious self esteem issues. They become "hookers", because it is basically all they can do with relative success. Their lives are inherently destructive. Eventually they burn out though, because that line of existance doesn't last forever. Everything we know about SG suggests that she was in the latter group. It doesnt mean that she can't show affection for her family, or be kind, or any of those other things that are human. But she was still on that aimless road to self destruction. Her life was tragic, but you should not think that it was somehow noble simply because she is dead.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

. Everything we know about SG suggests that she was in the latter group.

Are you her family friend or known her earlier when she was alive?

Who are "we" here?

I respect your opinion but I don't agree with your conclusion.

 

[EXIA15145]

I am not 100% sure, but I am still leaning toward drugs for her behavior that night. IMO, someone in their right mind, that was thinking clear and logically would not have some the things she did. Especially after Coletti said he was calling the police. She doesn't know the town, she isn't locale, drugs can make someone incredibly paranoid, especially with someone with an underlined mental disease.

Just the thought of careful the LISK has been, I do not believe for one second that he would allow a victim that much control. Wouldn't you think he would go through extreme measures to stop her from leaving, much less dial a 911 call in JB's house? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe one Of those guys got flustered, after the call and killed her. But I think it is unlikely. Also the fact that her bones were found intact.. in that particular pot, there is no way(as PB said earlier) someone could of laid those bones in a perfect skeletal structer. I would to know what the ground under her looked like. Because that could answer a lot of questions. Because when a body rote in a certain spot, it leaves some sort of fluid on the ground. LE has to know the answer to this, and haven't released any info yet.

I think if they gave us that answer, we could almost put this thing to rest. I am hoping something comes out soon.

sorry, could I get translation on this please?

 

[Adler]

Waltson, I have been sleuthing this case extensively since the very beginning. If you go back and read the old discussions you can certainly find a time when I was furious thinking the same thing (that the fact that she said they were going to kill her and then she died was proof enough that she was murdered). But then I kept digging deeper and deeper.

The facts of this case then lead me to question under what circumstances do killers allow their victim to make a 911 call and stay on the phone for 18 minutes while the police tried to figure out what island she was calling from (yes; they DID NOT even know if she was on Fire Island, Long Island or Jones' Island and either did she).

I then started to question why anyone would kill SG when they were fully aware that she brought a driver to protect her.

I then started to question whether or not SG was anything like the GB4 in that she was driven to client's homes while the others were clearly stalked by their killer.

I then started to question whether or not JB was intelligent enough to be the LISK.

I then started to question whether or not MP would be so stupid as to be the LISK and to kill the one girl they could easily trace to him.

When the crazy stuff about CPH's call came up the sleuthing clearly revealed that although he might be a colorful strange character who loves to inject himself into other people's business, he clearly is not the serial killer type.

I then started to question if CPH was the serial killer, why be so good at covering his tracks with the GB4 but so sloppy with SG?

The facts of this case then lead me to question under what circumstances does a person wind up dead but not murdered after a frantic call announcing that he/she was going to be killed. The answer I found was not under most circumstances unless the person has a known history of mental illness such as bipolar disorder. A little more research and I discover a long, long history of bipolar illness, refusal to take her medication to treat that illness, chronic use of cocaine & ectasy, a troubled childhood where she was removed from the care of her mother's home due to physical abuse and ANGER; lots and lots of anger. Her family, friends and neighbors all described this anger in the form of uncontrollable rages and emotional outbursts. Her rage and "episodes" were nothing new to MP because they had occured frequently (this WAS NOT the first time she ran from a client's home screaming and having one of her bipolar episodes).

Further sleuthing revealed that in addition to not taking her medication, being under huge amounts of stress, constantly putting herself in harm's way with her prostitution & drug use, she was clearly not healthy because she dropped a large amount of weight in a very short period of time. Further sleuthing revealed that she was at extremely high risk for heart attack, stroke as well as suicide due to all of the factors mentioned above.

Bottomline was that she clearly stopped caring about herself or her well being. She was in an abusive relationship that included severe violence and she didn't care about herself enough to get out of it.

I totally understand the emotions involved here for those who seek justice for Shannon.

I get it.

I understand that there is a rage... an anger against JB, CPH, MP and the rest of the Oak Beach gang. The unimaginable happened the evening of May 1st 2010. A mother lost her daughter. Siblings lost their sister. A baby lost her aunt. A bright young lady who was dealt a bad start to her life died before she ever had the chance to turn her luck around.

It is a tragedy on so many levels.

I understand the rage against the police investigators and against the Oak Beach association for appearing to do very little to investigate her case when she first disappeared.

I think the absolute most difficult obstacle I had when I attempted to sleuth this case was to distance myself from all of that rage and emotions (that none of us can help but to feel when we first look at this case). Then, as time went on and I weighed each and every aspect of this case I eventually found new ways to approach and evaluate the facts without the emotions clouding my vision (I guess I sort of grew numb to it all over time). I still have not made any conclusion as to what has happened to SG because we are missing so many pieces to the puzzle that we cannot possibly ever know without a confession that she was indeed murdered.

All I can say is that once you rise above letting the emotional aspect of this case get the best of you, the facts start to speak for themself and the likelyhood that SG was murdered by one of the Oak Beach clan or that the LISK accidentally stumbled upon her that evening becomes less with each passing day and the likelyhood that the police got it right that she died accidentally starts to reveal itself as being the more obvious answer.

I know this seems cold and harsh because it doesn't allow the justice that everyone seeks for Shannon.

Maybe one day the LISK will be caught and we will know the truth whether or not SG was one of his victims.

Until then, keep on sleuthing and try to do it with an open mind and without the rage and emotions that so easily cloud our judgement.

And please don't lash out at others who have been sleuthing this case for a very long time.

Well put.
Let's try to keep on sleuthing with an open mind:

If Shannan Gilbert tragically ran 1/4+ miles through a marsh with no shoes or leg coverings, and died, then LE would have no problem forking over lots of other evidence, such as the 911 recording, other people's phone records, findings regarding the location of the body, the remains (beyond a missing hyoid), information regarding her clothes and other belongings found on the other side of the marsh, computer records, text messages, information about the drifter (probably a euphemism for "national drug dealer") and relocating Shannan's jacket that they purportedly lost (I do not think they lost it). At this point we may all perceive more about this case with what we know by looking at what is being hidden from the public than by over-analyzing what we all agree is on the surface. Long hard road, yes. Unfortunately, for now, for you, for me--we are not allowed beyond this point due to LE decisions regarding this case.

 

[Adler]

Newp. What could she possibly have found out that someone didn't want her to know? That someone hired an escort to do what escorts do? Or are you trying to suggest that she accidently opened the "secret door"? Aside from the fact that there is not the slightest shred of any evidence for that, the probability of something like that happening is zero. One should not think that what happens in Hollywood's horror movies reflects real life, certainly it is not the basis for a credible theory.

As for caring for herself, there are two kinds of women who engage in prostitution. In one group, they are independent business women who are trying to create a better life for themselves. That might be buying their own home, paying for school, or supporting their children. These usually become escorts. These women usually have a goal they are working towards. The other group contains women who are mentally ill, who are addicted to various things, or have serious self esteem issues. They become "hookers", because it is basically all they can do with relative success. Their lives are inherently destructive. Eventually they burn out though, because that line of existance doesn't last forever. Everything we know about SG suggests that she was in the latter group. It doesnt mean that she can't show affection for her family, or be kind, or any of those other things that are human. But she was still on that aimless road to self destruction. Her life was tragic, but you should not think that it was somehow noble simply because she is dead.

I have a problem with this categorization of prostitutes. I see elements of both categories applicable to what I know about Shannan Gilbert. For example, she had both academic goals and ability. She wanted to pursue writing and singing. Obviously she had talent. She had worked in conventional jobs before going into prostitution. She had strong family ties, yes, and consider what that means. So many prostitutes are estranged from family and friends--she was not of this category. Was she considering enrolling in school? I think so. Yes, she lived on the edge. But I don't think she was the raging drug addict as depicted throughout this thread. Did she dabble? Certainly. Junkie? No way.

Getting back to those phone conversations between CPH and MG, it was CPH who first mentioned drug rehab. Again, why did he do that? SG had never been in drug rehab. What a presumption on his part if he were indeed fishing. What a mistake. What kind of back-peddling would he have to muster to undo that faux pas.

 

[PreciousDust]

If Shannan Gilbert tragically ran 1/4+ miles through a marsh with no shoes or leg coverings, and died, then LE would have no problem forking over lots of other evidence, such as the 911 recording, other people's phone records, findings regarding the location of the body....

Exactly. Doesn't mean she was murdered, but the LE playing it so close to the vest is just one more odd factor to add into the mix.

 

[BKS]

There are many misleading news articles and inaccurate statements made by the press in every case that comes down the pike. You have to take what is reported in the media with a grain of salt. I too have been delving into this case for well over a year. The truth has come out on several issues. Just off the top of my head.....

1. Joseph Brewer answered an online ad and hired Shannan for the night.
2. Michael Pak was Shannan's driver and transported Shannan to Oak Beach on that night.
3. Shannan called 911, tried to give directions to dispatch as to where she was. She notified them that she was in danger of being killed.
4. Shannan banged on the door of Mr. Colletti's home, hysterical and pleading for help.
5. Mr. Coletti called 911 and reported the incident.
6. Shannan ran from Coletti's home before the police arrived and was never seen again.
7. Pak was driving around searching for Shannan and then left Oak Beach and went somewhere else before the police arrived.
8. Shannan's skeletal remains were found 1 1/2 years later. The hyoid bone was missing, some of her cloths were found in the adjacent swamp along with her cell phone, purse and lipgloss.
9. Dr. Hackett did call Mari (Shannan's mother) on at least 2 occasions.
10. Oak Beach is a gated community. The video from the gate that night was never recovered.
11. Shannan Gilbert disappeared just a few few miles from Gilgo Beach where the remains of several prostitutes were found.

These are just a few of the facts in this case that lead me to believe that Shannan indeed fall victim to an event that caused her death. Accidental death? Maybe. SK? Could be. Is there a conspiracy to cover up what happened to Shannan on that fateful night? In my mind,definitely.

 

[WINDSOR]

Seaslug,

Well stated.

I see the case simply as a choice; do you believe SG died naturally and as the result of her own actions and behavior; or did she die as a result of somebody's criminal actions?

There is more than enough evidence, rumor, hunches and conjecture to support both theories.

So how do we decide if a crime occurred? The ME could not come to a conclusion as to cause of death. How can we?

I personally believe SG was murdered, I am not sure by whom, and I am not sure if that person is the LISK as well. I do believe MP knows very clearly what happened that night, he is the only common link with CPH, GC, JB, and SG. He was in JB's home and saw what was going on in their.

However the SCPD has decided to clear MP and everybody else, so they will let the case go away.

Two months ago when I suggested a reward fund of substantial size,to loosen some tongues I got the sense that a arrest was going to be made soon. Since then nothing has happened.

A&E ran an updated documentary last Saturday, but there was no new info. A&E did say LE enforcement has received many tips. I willing to bet one or more of those tips has the solution to this case. I just do not have confidence in SCPD, it took them months even to interview GS, and he called them the night SG disappeared!

The FBI has to be given responsibility for this case or it will never be solved. SCPD is too busy with other stuff and has no money for this type of complex case. Without political involvement and commitment, action will not happen.

Is there anybody on this forum who could ask one of New York's senators Kirsten Gillibrand or Chuck Schumer to get the FBI involved? Both senators say they support safe communities, and are for enhanced law enforcement.

These Senators have to help, does anybody have contacts with them?

MOO

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter,

I have no doubt in my mind that something went truly wrong at that house and that the 911 call holds clear clues as to what happened.

And don't forget, that the fact, she could make that call is already a hint in itself

The extent of what went wrong, I have no idea. I can only guess, because I have no reason to believe the trio of MP, JB and CPH.

Going for a wild theory, you might ask if I am expecting any references to GB4 (which is GB2 at the time) on that tape. That is far fetched, but I am not closing any doors. Insistence of LE to hold back the audio adds more clouds.

But you have to believe, they all were bound at least to the laws of physics, which made it impossible for any of them to be in two places at the same time and also made time travels impossible for them to act on knowledge that would be only available 7 months in the future. Also none of them had x-ray eyes.
And when you accept that, there are two problems with the "foul play" theory. Pak couldn't be seen by Coletti and at the same time directly on SGs heels. So we know, he had lost SG's trace when he left Coletti. And, assuming, none of the others had an invisibility cloak, none of those "suspects" actually knew where she was. So how did they find her in the first place?
The second problem is, that SG couldn't have known about the GB2. She had no time machine to go seven months in the future when the bodies were discovered. So any arguing about she panicked because she knew is nonsense. She couldn't. Which means, she panicked without obvious reason. Now of course, the widest followers of a "conspiracy theory" conjecture snuff videos out of the thin air. Brewers house was searched only months later. No snuff there. Sure, he could have hidden it somewhere else. And he went voluntary to a lie detector test. Sure, he could be a sociopath of Hannibal Lecter like qualities. But this is only the game to "invent" anything out of the blue to hold the theory alive.

Dormer says on Dec 8th, 2011

“It is very easy to get engulfed in water, muck and fall down and not be able to get out of there. So we surmise that’s what happened,”

Dormer says on Dec 13th, 2011

“It is very easy to get engulfed in water, muck and fall down and not be able to get out of there. So we surmise that’s what happened,”

Dormer happens to be the only person who can build theories. That is funny enough.

Dormer isn't be the only one. And the drowning part is a theory. Could be the same stroke or heart attack (not that uncommon with drug/alcohol mixes) or simply hypothermia. According to medical studies, between 1/2 and 1/2 of hypothermia victims show paradoxical undressing. Add to this drugs and alcohol, which both wide the vessels, and getting rid of her clothes is not that much of a miracle anymore. So ... as said earlier, Dirmer wasa in way over his head with that case. But then so was all SCPD and all Dormer said had to come from inside the SCPD anyway.

Currently, in my eye, JB and MP stand somewhere between innocence and manslaughter.

You could maybe, with some luck, get JB for negligent manslaughter. Pak? I don't see how? When he tells, he was not even in the house, any jury will let him go.

I'm trying to put myself in JB's shoes, but his actions doesn’t add up to something I can understand.

First of all, I would do anything to retrieve that 911 call, just to get clear from the implications and show people that Shannan is "lunatic". Or perhaps he cares about the dignity of the poor girl?

All he wants, is this whole story to go away. The problem for him is not, what people are talking. The problem is, he probably committed some other offenses than murder. Patronizing a prostitute, drug use, offering drugs. So the best he can do is stay silent. And how would he get hold of those tapes anyway? He is not charged with anything, so his lawyers can't force the prosecution to hand them over to prepare a defense. So SCPD can keep those tapes and nobody can get them from them. He can ask, reporters can ask, relatives of victims can ask, but SCPD doesn't need to release that evidence. And as long as they argue it's only to protect their investigation, nobody can force them to show their cards. Which gives them a neverneding green light to stand in their own way.

Going back to the night, in my house some crazy hooker calls 911 and talks to the operator for minutes, saying that I am trying to kill her. Just for precaution, I would call 911 too. Lots of other courses of action could be suggested.

You forget two details here. There was a little drug party going on in that house and SG wasn't the only one involved. So how stoned was Brewer, how stoned was the drifter? What makes you think, they were even able to make rational decisions?
For sure, it took Pak some time to arrive at Coletti's place, even he had the shorter way than SG and used a car. That means, he had to waste a little time to figure out, what happened in the first place before he went looking for SG. So it obviously wasn't that easy to get an answer from Brewer.

Martin County Sheriff Richard Crowder gets a call on a Saturday morning when he is off duty. It is one of his deputies, Gerard John Schaefer.

Schaefer says; "Boss, I did something stupid. I met two runaway girls. I decided to scare the hell out of them, so they would be better behaving kids. I took them to grove. Tied them to a tree and went away, to let them a few hours to ponder and take a lesson out of this. But when I got back there, the girls were gone."

I'm sure you know the truth and it is much more different that.

Now, which one makes more sense? A young deputy teaching a lesson to the vagabond girls, or the young deputy is one of the worst serial killers in the history.

Sometimes reality can be crazier than the wildest guesses.

Of course, in Schaefer's place, his souvenir collection was found. Mostly jewelry, also a tooth if I remember right. So, there was forensic evidence. And of course, the girls disappeared in Schaefer's patrol area, not in his house. Which once more shows the difference between hunting area and the place an SK lives. So ... aside of comparing apples and pears, all that you can see is another SK who didn't kill in his house. So what, some do, some don't?
And calling him one of the worst serial killers in history is a little bit over the top. He is convicted for two, maybe thirty are connected but not hard enough that he could have been charged. Thirty doesn't bring him in the top ten, not even the top fifty. If you go back in history, you find for example Lopes (convicted in 110 cases), Shipman (never charged because he died, about 200 cases hard linked), of course Bathory (convicted for 80 in the 1600s), de Rais (140 cases listed in the trial documents), Garavito (convicted in 138 cases). Even Ridgway came to 50. So Schaefer was not that impressive.

 

[Peter Brendt]

*snipped by me

So, this is fact?

That they don't name people, they have already ruled out? Yep. And in fact, they also said Brewer's name after the reporters found it already out. Same with the hunt for last johns. Of course, there is always the chance of a leak, but that's another story.

 

[Peter Brendt]

A neighbor of JB saw him bring a rental-truck (uHaul) and move items into in the darkness with just a single light inside the home. That neighbor thought this was very weird.

1) Why would she think it was weird? (Because he could afford to get his own truck instead of a rental-truck or was it in moving things in the complete darkness)

If he did hire a rental-truck did the police try to get the records from rental-truck company to see if he hired a rental-truck and for how long - whether he used his real-name to rent the truck or someone's name?

Really? Some people don't own trucks because they normally don't need them. And after a whole bunch of people all over the internet (and also WS) slandered him without a shred of evidence, because the reporters were everywhere, a little discretion was just wise. Who knows, maybe they had to wait till Truthspider and his DEA-van were gone?
But seriously, if any other person would pack a Uhaul to move, it would be nothing. And needing more time into darkness is normal. Never ever, a move worked out in the time, anybody estimated for it. And yes, I helped also friends occasionally out when they move. That didn't make any of them a killer, nor did it make me a killer. It's what friends do. So this story isn't weird, but people want to see it as weird, because of the permanent slander and libel going on in this case.

 

[Peter Brendt]

How many people do you think were in the house? And on what do you base your thinking? Because unless you were there at the time, and did a thorough count of those present, then you're just engaging in conjecture. By the way, conjecture is defined as "guess" (and also as "speculation"), so don't lean too hard on finding a distinction between the words:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conjecture?s=t&ld=1032

According to the police, which is in that point consistent with Pak's and Brewer's statements, there were three person IN the house: SG, JB and the drifter. OUTSIDE the house and only for some minutes inside in between was Michael Pak.
So, I wasn't there. But the police was. And they counted.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Why do some people here seem to ATTACK others because of their theories or POV Isn't that what we are all here for...to put our heads together...I have only been here a short time but am already growing weary of SUPER sleuths putting down anybody and every theory that doesn't agree with their own...thats how cases go cold! OPEN YOUR MINDS TO ANY AND EVERY POSSIBILITY BECAUSE AT THIS POINT...NOBODY IS RIGHT OR WE WOULD HAVE AN ARREST AND CONVICTION! Imo that is why LE han't soved these cases...closed minds!

If you add "reasonable" and "physically possible", then it reads OPEN YOUR MINDS TO ANY AND EVERY REASONABLE and PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE POSSIBILITY BECAUSE AT THIS POINT ...
That is what I could agree on. But no time warps, no blind slander and libel and please, please, please, no more psychics.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Sorry not personally attacking you Seaslug, but isn't the fact that Shannan said they were going to killer her still proof she was murdered?

Nope, it isn't and it especially isn't if the alleged victim shows signs of drug induced paranoia in her behavior over all the rest of the story.