Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

Discussion in 'Long Island Serial Killer' started by Salem, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. PreciousDust

    PreciousDust Active Member

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    Really? The police were there that night/early morning, and counted JB and the drifter and occasionally Michael Pak, and no one else? And the police were sure no one had been there earlier on, when SG was there and they weren't there to count? I wasn't aware of that, I had thought that some or all of their information was based on interviews (though, alas, not an interview of SG, which would have been the most important one), and what they could hear in the background on the 911 call.
     


  2. nugzter

    nugzter New Member

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    Something to think about.
    Could it be possible that SG was there to put on a strip show for JB and the Drifter? This could explain why JB was so adamant about no sex that night.
    For example. Lets say the Drifter is a good buddy of JB and that night was his Birthday or what ever reason to party down. There is nothing worse than two old dudes sitting around the house with drugs and booze, bored stiff. So hey, lets look up an escort. Have a little female company, see some skin, do some coke.
    It has always been my belief that not all escorts are prostitutes (meaning sexual favors). Some just get taken out on the town, to be shown off.
    Dudes are stupid. And coked out dudes are even more ignorant. So lets say shes dancing around half naked, and one of them gets too touchy feely, and there are word exchanged like, hey how about a freebie or something not bargained for at the start.
    It has been stated that SG would take no crap. And people on coke use it because it boosts your feeling of self 20 times. If you are a jerk normayl, you are a jerk times 20 on coke. For me it is easy to see how and argument would start with that combination of drugs and characters in the house that night.
    You want to see a coke head calm down real fast. Jump on the phone with 911. And start telling the operator, "hey, I'm in danger". Worst nightmare. Busted with drugs and a prostitute, oops. First thing on their minds is get her out of my house and as far away as possible. I want nothing to do with this situation.
    This is all just a made up scenario. But I have seen similar things happen in real life at partys, with the exception of the prostitutes.
     
  3. BKS

    BKS Sleuthhound

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    Thats right PD, The police did not talk to MP that night. MP was not there when the police arrived. Actually we have no way of knowing who else was there as we have never seen the original police report. I wonder if they even talked to Brewer that night! Also, in interviews with Pak he never mentions anyone else was there. Neither does Brewer. The police did not actually count the people that were there that night because we know Pak and Shannan were not there when police arrived! So if there were people there to be counted, who were they?
     
  4. PreciousDust

    PreciousDust Active Member

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    And that's the reason there's no point stating there were a certain number of people there that night as "fact"; it's not one, or at least it's not (and probably never can be) proven. Which, for me, means only one thing:

    Shannan Gilbert could very well have run off in the brush because of justified or unjustified fears, and died of exposure. Based on what we know of Shannan's history, it's not an entirely unlikely scenario, despite some curious circumstances that would almost stretch the bounds of reasonable coincidence. On the other hand, we don't know what happened, and sometimes unusual things do happen (and, perhaps, those curious circumstances enhance the possibilities that unusual things may have occurred). As Mr. Brendt has pointed out, directly accusing specific individuals based on theory is libelous, and it's wrong; however, there's nothing wrong with examining what we do know and trying to make sense of what happened, while not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. And that's why there's a Shannan Gilbert thread on a serial killer board - so that people can discuss it.
     
  5. Adler

    Adler New Member

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    Why not? Two were wrapped in burlap and placed on the beach at that point, right? Perhaps she somehow learned that she might be #3 to the burlap. Just because we learned about the first burlap G-2 seven months later does not preclude her from having learned something that night that would lead to a conclusion that she was in very real danger and somehow relating to murders at the beach. The latter GB-2 (of the many other remains they found out there) were included with the first two after Shannan died. Right?
     
  6. Adler

    Adler New Member

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    Good thinking!
     
  7. svpernin

    svpernin Member

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    This probably isn't the ideal thread for this but it's the most active and I wanted to share this new article with everyone (don't get too excited, it's just an overview, but it's well-written and worth reading):

    http://issuu.com/milieu/docs/v01i03?mode=window&viewMode=doublePage

    It starts on page 24/25

    ETA: I don't know what's up with the yellow'ed out sections, they're visible in the actual publication and don't contain any confidential info or anything.
     
  8. Justiceforever

    Justiceforever New Member

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    Nugzter you are right on the money! ESCORT DOES NOT ALWAYS EQUAL Prostitute! I speak from experience. I am tired of people making that assumptions esp. the media who dubbs these girls as hookers! Clients get REAL upset when they dont get what they want! I know! There are also men/drivers/pimps who can get very scary if they dont get there cut! I nelieve SG was afraid of Pak...Notoce I didnt say I think he killed her...but I think she was terrified that he would seriously hurt if not kill her! That would expain why she ran from him and possibly got lost and succumbed to the elements
     
  9. Emre E

    Emre E Active Member

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    In this discussion it is all interpreted as if the course of events that took place on May 1st 2010 can be explained by our "arbitrary" choice of whether Shannan was hysterical or not.

    Think again, think deeper; our preferences as to her mental stability bears no significance.

    Shannan being hysterical does not necessarily mean she's not murdered, or Shannan being in panic yet control of her actions doesn’t mean she's immune to accidents.

    It all boils down to one thing, what set her off? Without the 911 call, we can only speculate.

    A lot of people in this forum asking the correct questions, like the missing bone, whether her jeans is inside out or not. These are issues that need to explained, at least to the family.

    Michael Pak says he slept in the SUV, or additionally Peter Brendt recites he played an online game and LE knows this. Whether he slept or played an online game, these are fundamentally the same thing, i.e. he's in the car, having no idea about what is going on inside the house.

    FACT IS; he talked with Shannan on the phone six times. When did telling lies got so easy?

    Did it take Dormer a year and a half to build the "crazy girl tangled to death" theory?

    This could normally be a theory on the first time, when somebody lays hands on the missing SG case and LE could do what it takes.

    In the simplest form you take ten men, order them to make a shoulder-to-shoulder sweep of the land, in the right direction not the opposite direction she's been seen. But this hasn't been done for three times. Aug 2010 (Four months after she's gone missin), Dec 2010 and Mar 2011. But never done. Then where is the backbone of your theory?

    Limited funds of LE is a fat boloney. Do you know the hourly operational cost of a Blackhawk, or the other choppers in the air. Now, it is cheaper?

    I'm never saying that SCPD is covering up an evil serial killer. They are covering a series of botches.

    Sometimes, I imagine my wife sitting in the same car of a subway with a sick person who could take lives with no remorse. The idea alone repulses me.

    I am with Windsor.

    I believe US citizens must start a campaign of letters, e-mails to whomever has the power and the courage to take action.

    As an outsider, here is my word once again, if the Gilbert family decides to hire a feisty attorney who is willing to go praying mantis on the system, I will extend my support.
     
  10. BelieveinUFO

    BelieveinUFO Well-Known Member

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    If this was the case, MP would NOT have said that he believed that they (SG and JB) had sex. So that means SG was not this type.

    MP did say that he saw JB shove SG through her neck from back to get her out of the house.
     
  11. Maddalenasgirl

    Maddalenasgirl New Member

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    911 call from Shannon that people are trying to kill her + missing hyoid speaks loudly doesn't it?
     
  12. Maddalenasgirl

    Maddalenasgirl New Member

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    It would be where I am from. I can tell you that all sorts of LE would be all over it.
     
  13. Maddalenasgirl

    Maddalenasgirl New Member

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    Believing that Shannan was murdered is one thing and proving it is another is really what it all comes down to.
     
  14. SoSueMe

    SoSueMe Former Member

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    I'm a little late to this party, but please, let's nix the psychic discussion and any reference to it.

    Websleuths does not allow the discussion of psychics.

    If you have any questions about this rule, please PM a moderator and do not address it on this thread.

    Thank you!
     
  15. Seaslug44

    Seaslug44 Active Member

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    Odd. I've watched every interview with MP multiple times and never once did he say JB SHOVED SG.

    Where on Earth are you getting this information from???
     
  16. BelieveinUFO

    BelieveinUFO Well-Known Member

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    well, you can read the references relating to this case earlier. I elaborated it as "shove" - when a person touches your neck and pushes you to make you go out.
    MP did say about this in some articles but I took it as "shove".

    Ofcourse MP's account of JB's action can be taken in different perspective but that's my perspective.


    Edit: The point is it is an "assualt" when a person touches you when you don't want that person's advances (/ threats)
     
  17. mcme

    mcme Driven away

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    It looks like it was the reason for the 911 call.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/shannan_gilbert_remains_found.html



    The last day of Gilbert’s life began when 47-year-old Joseph Brewer, who used to live at 8 The Fairway, in Oak Beach, answered an ad she had posted on a social networking website in April of last year. The sexual encounter, however, never happened, Brewer told The Star-Ledger in an exclusive story in June. What he did say was, she asked him an odd question about transvestites, leading him to believe she was a man, and when Brewer asked her to leave, she began to act erratically, he said.
    Brewer then called for help from her driver, Michael Pak, who was waiting in an SUV outside the home. When Brewer tried to grab Gilbert from behind, according to Pak, she slipped his grip and cowered behind a couch. From there she dialed 911 and during a 23-minute-long phone call pleaded with authorities to help her because someone was trying to kill her.
     
  18. MrsPC

    MrsPC Well-Known Member

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    In the A&E special in Dec (IIRC) Pak was interviewed and talked about Brewer grabbing Gilbert around the neck from behind...and he even stated he didn't know why Brewer had done that.

    the video is no longer avail unless you purchase it online
     
  19. genericwhitemale

    genericwhitemale New Member

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    I think this is the one you're referring to. There's five parts in total. Check out Part 1 @3:48 where Pak talks about Brewer grabbing Shannan.

    [video=youtube;RIhi055VroE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIhi055VroE[/video]
     
  20. MrsPC

    MrsPC Well-Known Member

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    thank you ...didn't realize the video was still available

    Pak clearly states that Brewer grabbed Gilbert from behind and he thought Brewer was trying to push her out
     

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