Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

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BKS

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This is the first time I have heard official confirmation about the 911 call. Mari's attorney confirmed that the 911 call has Shannon screaming for help and on the tape Shannon says that MP and JB are trying to kill her. There is a scuffle on the tape and then you can hear her running it says.
What more do they need to make an arrest?:jail:
 

truthspider

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Cops searched the arrea where SG was found in the intial search....correct? So that would mean 1 of two things. Cops missed the body or body was placed. Lets assumer body was placed after cops searched. Say body was severely decomposed. How would one place a skeleton and make it look like it was there the whole time. You would need a medical backround (or some decent knowledge of the human skelatal system) so you can put anything that moves back in the correct place if you mix it up.

It is tough for us to answer these questions though....we do not have the details of the search and all we really have for the condition of SG is a satellite like shot. And her belongings were found after the initial search....come on!!!

FWIW I was told in person by someone who lives in OB and has been following the investigation closely that there is no way she was in that location the whole time, because he knows the police had already searched that area.

As for her possessions, the first time they searched they may not have searched where her possessions were found, and if they did, they definitely didn't utilize shovels and a crane when they did.
 

WINDSOR

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I think I have a possible answer to one question.

How do you move a skeleton without disrupting the order in which the bones are located? You cannot put the bones in a burlap bag.

1) Have the body decompose and have only skeletal remains.

2) Acquire or make a case like a guitar case or a gun case big enough to hold the skeleton. Line both sides of the inside of the case with this type of foam. You might carry the skull separately as it might not fit the case, but you know where the skull goes anyways.

This company sells cases this model which would work. http://www.carrycasesplus.com/blow-molded-cases/infinity-cases/fz-7.html

here is the foam to use
http://www.carrycasesplus.com/custom-foam-inserts/es-conv.html

3) Carefully place the bones in the case in the sequence they are laying in and close the case. The foam will prevent the bones from moving.

4) Drive to the dump site and carefully place the bones in the proper sequence in the dump site.




TRUTH, Thank you for the honor and recognition. I have always had CPH as a key POI. Until I assumed that MP was 'associated with CPH somehow' I could never understand how CPH came into possession of SG.

I now believe MP caught SG that morning and had her in his car, he somehow met with CPH either by accident on the road or intentionally by going to his house. MP then allows CPH to take care of SG, and goes home. A couple days later he meets with CPH in Oak Beach. MP learns that CPH has taken care of SG, and called her family. Both CPH and MP rehearse their stories and two years later LE has nothing.

SG believed MP wanted to kill her, if she was correct, (and she did die) this becomes a logical way for MP to handle the matter.

MOO
 

Peter Brendt

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Cops searched the arrea where SG was found in the intial search....correct? So that would mean 1 of two things. Cops missed the body or body was placed. Lets assumer body was placed after cops searched. Say body was severely decomposed. How would one place a skeleton and make it look like it was there the whole time. You would need a medical backround (or some decent knowledge of the human skelatal system) so you can put anything that moves back in the correct place if you mix it up.

It is tough for us to answer these questions though....we do not have the details of the search and all we really have for the condition of SG is a satellite like shot. And her belongings were found after the initial search....come on!!!

In fact, it's pretty easy to answer. You would need a world class forensic anthropologist, a big box, a lot of tubes, balloons, pipes, a genius engineer or two, some super truck with super dampers capable to bring that package there without shaking it (or an airship would do the trick too) and just a little bit more luck than you would need to win Mega Millions three times in a row.
Point is, a body contains 206 bones, a lot of tendons, flesh, vessels and all is neatly packed under some layers of skin and holds each other part in place. As soon as parts of the package disappear, due to decomposition, other parts tend to fall out and pull other parts with them. Guts, that fall out because you move a body without skin layers over the stomach would for example also pull the bile duct. So what you would need is much more than medical knowledge. You would need to fix every little part absolutely in place to each other during transport. So the balloons were not a joke. Because imagine, you mess it up and a femur for example slips a little out of place. Not a big deal, you think? Just put it where it belongs again? But what about the tendon? The other end of it ends where exactly? Or rather, does it still end there and didn't rip away because it was already weakened be decomposition? Now multiply this one example by 206 and then by 4 (most joints have at least four tendons). And each possibility in that number would make your placed body distinguishable from a body that was there all the time.
And even, if you are the most genius puzzle master and you and your engineer corps with their super dampened super truck have done it, that doesn't take care of the fact, that the ground under the body wouldn't change the changes soil goes through when something rots on it. So ... no way. If, the body could have been moved before most of the decomposition happened.

Peter
 

Peter Brendt

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I think I have a possible answer to one question.

How do you move a skeleton without disrupting the order in which the bones are located? You cannot put the bones in a burlap bag.

1) Have the body decompose and have only skeletal remains.

2) Acquire or make a case like a guitar case or a gun case big enough to hold the skeleton. Line both sides of the inside of the case with this type of foam. You might carry the skull separately as it might not fit the case, but you know where the skull goes anyways.

This company sells cases this model which would work. http://www.carrycasesplus.com/blow-molded-cases/infinity-cases/fz-7.html

here is the foam to use
http://www.carrycasesplus.com/custom-foam-inserts/es-conv.html

3) Carefully place the bones in the case in the sequence they are laying in and close the case. The foam will prevent the bones from moving.

4) Drive to the dump site and carefully place the bones in the proper sequence in the dump site.




TRUTH, Thank you for the honor and recognition. I have always had CPH as a key POI. Until I assumed that MP was 'associated with CPH somehow' I could never understand how CPH came into possession of SG.

I now believe MP caught SG that morning and had her in his car, he somehow met with CPH either by accident on the road or intentionally by going to his house. MP then allows CPH to take care of SG, and goes home. A couple days later he meets with CPH in Oak Beach. MP learns that CPH has taken care of SG, and called her family. Both CPH and MP rehearse their stories and two years later LE has nothing.

SG believed MP wanted to kill her, if she was correct, (and she did die) this becomes a logical way for MP to handle the matter.

MOO

Tendons, Windsor, tendons! Tendons deteriorate very slow. In fact as slow or even slower in wet conditions than bones. Means, if you wait till all the tendons are gone, you have no bones left. Unless you take care for preservation, which would again leave traces. And how do you suppose to get your skeleton in the end free of that foam again? How do you suggest to prepare the soil under the body for example for higher nitrate levels? How would you reconstruct the diatom level on the bones to the past layers which happened in the time the body was supposed to be in that spot but wasn't?

Peter
 

MrsPC

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I know I'm probably in the major minority...but I truly don't buy this "undetermined" cause of death. The Medical Examiner or Suffolk County Police have*not* officially confirmed or made that statement. Only Mari and her attorney have made that statement.

And Suffolk County *Homicide* Squad is still investigating Gilbert's case.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...mains-Serial-Killer-Prostitute-149687895.html

The Suffolk County Homicide Squad is still investigating the circumstances surrounding Shannan Gilbert's death, said Acting Police Commissioner Edward Webber.


IMO, especially after studying the remains photo so much, I believe this "undetermined" cause of death is a huge ruse...and I believe the family had to be brought on board with the ruse & that's why they stayed over 3 hrs at the Medical Examiner's office. I also do not believe that if Mari was truly as disgusted with Suffolk County as she said (she actually stated she felt mislead & betrayed) that she would request the County keep Gilbert's remains for additional testing.

I'm just not buying it. IMO, it's a homicide plain & simple and IMO law enforcement know it is.
 

truthspider

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And SCPD's poker face is terrible, but you can't blame them they have never played this game before.
 

Peter Brendt

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You asked, what they need to make an arrest ... I said, they need evidence for an actual crime. As of yet, they have a tape with an accusation from a person, that showed, additionally to a history of drug addiction and borderline, all sings of a good old drug induced paranoia, a witness, who saw her alive long enough after the call to kill her three times and also saw her running in the direction, the body was later found. They have no COD, no forensic evidence of foul play. So that's what they would need: Evidence.

Peter
 

Reannan

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Just to be clear - there is NO SUCH THING as a "THYROID" bone... the thyroid is a gland, not a bone. One of the first things you would look for when performing a forensic evaluation of a skeleton would be the "HYOID" bone - it is the neck bone that is broken if you strangle someone to death. Here is a picture of it... Does anyone know what other bone besides the hyoid was missing?
 

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Peter Brendt

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Just to be clear - there is NO SUCH THING as a "THYROID" bone... the thyroid is a gland, not a bone. One of the first things you would look for when performing a forensic evaluation of a skeleton would be the "HYOID" bone - it is the neck bone that is broken if you strangle someone to death. Here is a picture of it... Does anyone know what other bone besides the hyoid was missing?

Thanks for clearing that up, three days or so after we cleared it up already. But you're right, the "thyroid bine" came from a bad translation mistake, I did. So I apologize a second time for being multilingual. And since they said, two neck bones are missing, my bet for the other one would be C2 or C3.

Peter
 

LINative13

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We (meaning us on this board) are in a crappy spot. We need some key details of this case and we can not have access to it. I understand that completely (obviously). The cops know if she was placed there......no doubt they know.You ( You meaning my fellow sleuthers) and I do not know and it would be nice for us to be able to stop having to run around in circles trying to figure things out the cops already know.

Like I said, I understand the SCPD and FBI are playing this close to the chest.
 

LINative13

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Just to be clear - there is NO SUCH THING as a "THYROID" bone... the thyroid is a gland, not a bone. One of the first things you would look for when performing a forensic evaluation of a skeleton would be the "HYOID" bone - it is the neck bone that is broken if you strangle someone to death. Here is a picture of it... Does anyone know what other bone besides the hyoid was missing?


Thanks man, I saw it written both ways. I know the thyroid is a gland. I am a financial/astronomy guy......not biology.
 

Peter Brendt

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We (meaning us on this board) are in a crappy spot. We need some key details of this case and we can not have access to it. I understand that completely (obviously). The cops know if she was placed there......no doubt they know.You ( You meaning my fellow sleuthers) and I do not know and it would be nice for us to be able to stop having to run around in circles trying to figure things out the cops already know.

Like I said, I understand the SCPD and FBI are playing this close to the chest.

On a side note: In the 70s and early 80s, they were more open to the public, often also aksed for the help of the public as soon as they had something, they could use to involve the public. Since then, they learned to play it closer to the chest. Since then, the career time of serial killers also tripled.

Peter
 

BKS

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You asked, what they need to make an arrest ... I said, they need evidence for an actual crime. As of yet, they have a tape with an accusation from a person, that showed, additionally to a history of drug addiction and borderline, all sings of a good old drug induced paranoia, a witness, who saw her alive long enough after the call to kill her three times and also saw her running in the direction, the body was later found. They have no COD, no forensic evidence of foul play. So that's what they would need: Evidence.

Peter
So prostitution, human trafficking and the opportunity and motive to kill, plus the 911 call describing her attacker isn't enough. Gee wonder when common sense comes in to play?
 

To Kill a Mockingbird

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So prostitution, human trafficking and the opportunity and motive to kill, plus the 911 call describing her attacker isn't enough. Gee wonder when common sense comes in to play?

BKS - thank you for your two cents about common sense

but Peter Brandt is an attorney and he said that they need evidence a crime has been committed. he's just stating the law.

i would think that the 911 call NAMING her attacker who is trying to kill her would BE evidence... but Peter is pointing out that (i think) the police are going to ARGUE that.... SMG had a history of... bi-polar disorder and/or doing drugs, and so, she was....on a BAD batch of drugs THINKING her driver and her john (but they did not name jb or did she?) could be ANOTHER john in that gated community...were trying to kill her.

how can a woman (who ended up dead) calling 911 saying SO AND SO and also SO AND SO are trying to KILL me NOT be evidence...????
can someone please explain that one?

tkm:what::what::what::what::what::what::what:
 

dc20015

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On a side note: In the 70s and early 80s, they were more open to the public, often also aksed for the help of the public as soon as they had something, they could use to involve the public. Since then, they learned to play it closer to the chest. Since then, the career time of serial killers also tripled.

Peter

This is such an excellent point. It seems in the quest to rule out the crazies and build airtight cases, LE has limited the involvement of its greatest tool and ally: the public. I remember when the snipers were here in DC it was a guy sitting at a rest stop in Maryland who finally got those jerks busted because he had the car description and license plate number once they went public with them. Also, Ted Kaczynski's brother recognized his wording after the manifesto was published. Even though nobody believed her at the time, Ted Bundy's girlfriend reported him early on because in addition to other things, she knew he had plaster of paris which you can use to make the fake casts he was fashioning. Almost nobody lives in a vacuum and all it takes is one person close to the perpetrator to put 2 and 2 together. I understand the spot LE is in, but I really do think these guys careers go on and on and on sometimes because information is only dispersed to a small pool of people.
 

Reannan

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I remember searching for news about Shannan and the other GB4 after Thanksgiving 2011, and I vividly remember the article that was posted, which seemed to indicate that LE had received some sort of 'tip' about Shannan's body being dumped along LIE. It did not take them long to find her belongings, and then her. I still want to know how they knew to look for her there, and who told them to go do it.....

From Newsday article published November 30, 2011 @ 9:45 PM

"A Suffolk police spokeswoman said the commissioner received information from the department's detective division Wednesday morning indicating the "possibility" that Gilbert may be dead, with her body dumped along the parkway."
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-shannan-gilbert-s-body-may-be-at-gilgo-1.3357869
 

Peter Brendt

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So prostitution, human trafficking and the opportunity and motive to kill, plus the 911 call describing her attacker isn't enough. Gee wonder when common sense comes in to play?

1.) They can arrest Shannan Gilbert's remains for prostitution. Fine, but I don't see how this would solve anything.

2.) Human trafficking would involve either illegal transportation (for example a coyote), for example over a border or transport Shannan Gilbert againt her will (as secondary charge to kidnapping). Nothing of that would apply here, at least not as long as someone can prove, she had a pimp, who "rented" her out.

3.) Opportunity to kill alone doesn't even constitute probably cause.

4.) The 911 call would have been a chance if police would have been on the scene faster, and then only for minor charges. But a call from a person not knowing where she is, 18 minutes long on the phone and alive ... well, that doesn't look too reasonable. Especially not, if there is at least one witness who saw her running in the direction where she was found later. Especially not, if this witness' (Coletti) testimony is consistent with the statements of Pak and Brewer (even under lie detector).

<modsnip>.

Peter
 
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