Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[mrspatton]

From wikipedia...re: wetlands...

A wetland is a land area that is saturated with water, either permanently or seasonally, such that it takes on characteristics that distinguish it as a distinct ecosystem.[2] The primary factor that distinguishes wetlands is the characteristic vegetation that is adapted to its unique soil conditions: Wetlands are made up primarily of hydric soil, which supports aquatic plants.[3][4]

The water found in wetlands can be saltwater, freshwater, or brackish

 

[En Passant]

You are not correct. In fact even using the map you provided you are off on the location of oak beach, which if you zoom in and use your layers you can see quite clearly that the area of oak beach is white (not wetlands), but areas of gilgo beach are green and to the east as well. Oak Island however is north of the parkway and is freshwater, perhaps that's why you are confused?

The tides do rise and fall here, and in fact that is why she was not seen from the air because it was flooded and the remains where found when the tide was unusually low.


How long have YOU lived in Oak Beach?

Dear Mrs. Patton,
Thank You very much, you will see the plethera of misinformation spewed, it is a common ritual of some. Put on your seat belt it is a very bumpy ride with a brazen bunch.
Welcome, your comments are like a breath of fresh air & very much needed. The harsh crude belittling comments like all others are inferior is calculated IMO.
I am very upset with the treatment of victims & the fact that the person who was named by SG on the 911 which was JB the CRIMINAL IMO who hired a prostitute & AGGRESSED on SG by grabbing her from behind & trying to kill her...is made out to be Saint like by some. SAINT LIKE, read the threads & follow the patterns, the dots are BIG IMO

 

[mrspatton]

And just to put this to bed...the NYS DESIGNATED FRESHWATER WETLANDS are areas that are protected by the wetlands law, it does not designate whether the areas are fresh or salt or brackish, only that they are protected areas under the law.

 

[En Passant]

Oak Beach is not Hell town. As a former long time summer resident I can tell you its a lovely community with part time and full time residents who are very close and enjoy the peace and beauty of the local landscape. We never even locked our doors. As far as animals, foxes, skunks, raccoons, opossums and of course lots of birds. The water does come in and flood the area that Shannon Gilbert was found in, and its also very very dense. To me it makes sense she could have gotten lost and ended up tragically dying in the marsh of causes unrelated to the LISK. Only time will tell of course, but to believe the OB community is some vast cult like community conspiring to keep the truth from being revealed is absolute rubbish!

Don't agree at all. Where are the security tapes? Where are the neck bones that are consistent with the area the other victims were choked? IMO you need to lock the door as the SK has killed young girls & currently it is a grave yard. Beautiful by far IMO Shear Horrific Torture of young misguided CHILDREN have been murdered, tortured killed & discarded like trash. Now I see pure Evil happening in what I feel to Be Hell's Town. Decietful people covering for others destroying security tapes IMO.

I think the BIG BREAK was SG.....My Opinion I disagree & feel your comment is the furthest from the TRUTH.

All I would like to say is if we put ourselves in the victims shoes & there families. You you feel the same way if it was your child??? That's what I am wondering, what if it happened to your child? JB grabbing your child & your child calling 911 saying JB & MP was trying to kill her & your child was found there.

Sometimes having empathy is about putting oneself in anothers shoes & hoping people support in stead of judging that's all. I also feel these other remains are of GRAVE CONCERN. BODIES from 2010...I don't think it is a peaceful place at all nor would I feel the majority of the population would feel that way either IMO. I hope they tear down all the housaes & put a MEMORIAL to all the victims since the land is not owned by residents.

In fact writing to the local politicians can help. Torture took place there, horrific dismembering was found. Peaceful place I whole heartedly disagree

 

[truthspider]

And Al Capone was never convicted of being a Bootlegger, Murderer, or Extortionist.




No MP did plead guilty to to a passport issue and served time. How do you think sex trafficking goes on, with legitimate passports?

All I know is he was assisting a Chinese woman with a false passport enter the USA. She had no legitimate job waiting for her in America and he plead guilty. MP claims he was helping her for a fee with her English.

To me sex trafficking was the likely objective.

Truth do you have any proof to say the woman was not going in the sex trade?

MOO

Innocent until proven guilty. I'm not gonna ask you what side of the Trayvon case you fall on Windsor. From what I can tell you suffer serious bias and are most likely an open racist. She was likely going into the sex trade because she was chinese? What if she was german, or japanese? I saw you in the pharmacy the other day buying lubricant and diapers, therefore I think that Windsor rapes infants. If you don't see the problem with your logic maybe this statement will help you out. 101.

 

[Jenny9]

You are not correct. In fact even using the map you provided you are off on the location of oak beach, which if you zoom in and use your layers you can see quite clearly that the area of oak beach is white (not wetlands), but areas of gilgo beach are green and to the east as well. Oak Island however is north of the parkway and is freshwater, perhaps that's why you are confused?

The tides do rise and fall here, and in fact that is why she was not seen from the air because it was flooded and the remains where found when the tide was unusually low.


How long have YOU lived in Oak Beach?

the area where sg was found was closer to ocean pkwy.on a trail and about a 100ft just west of the exit ramp to get onto pkwy.i have lived in west islip most of my life and have taken ocean pkwy millions of time getting off this ramp and i dont ever remember this area being under water.the bay is on one side and the channel on the other,maybe during a hurricane they have met but not on an rainy day.

 

[Jenny9]

the area where sg was found was closer to ocean pkwy.on a trail and about a 100ft just west of the exit ramp to get onto pkwy.i have lived in west islip most of my life and have taken ocean pkwy millions of time getting off this ramp and i dont ever remember this area being under water.the bay is on one side and the channel on the other,maybe during a hurricane they have met but not on an rainy day.

i have no idea how to attach the picture of this area!

 

[LINative13]

I am a babylon resident, avid surfer and sport fisherman. I know the water pretty well. The area where SG was found is effected by tides, but I do not want the impression to be given off that the water rushes in or out and rapids form because the tidal rush is so extreme. In fact the area where SG was found is mostly mud not waist high water (just using waist high as a reference.....I do not know exactly how high the water is). I actually think Truth walked the entire trail recently. He did not mention treacherous terrain.

 

[WINDSOR]

Innocent until proven guilty. I'm not gonna ask you what side of the Trayvon case you fall on Windsor. From what I can tell you suffer serious bias and are most likely an open racist. She was likely going into the sex trade because she was chinese? What if she was german, or japanese? I saw you in the pharmacy the other day buying lubricant and diapers, therefore I think that Windsor rapes infants. If you don't see the problem with your logic maybe this statement will help you out. 101.

Truth, you surprise me. Based on what I have written you can tell I suffer serious bias, and most likely an open racist?

Besides being a first generation immigrant to this country, I live in a very racially mixed neighborhood(not gated) My neighbors to the left are a Buddhist family from Sri Lanka, The neighbor to the right is from Trinidad.

My first wife was a WASP, speaking of ethnic diversity.

I have received police commendation for intervening in a racially based beating of a South Asian youth who was accosted by a group of eight skin-heads. I appeared in court and testified against the skin-heads.

I did not link Chinese with the sex trade. If MP was assisting a Japanese, Russian, Turk, or any other race I would have made the same inference.


Regarding the Trayvon case, I have not been following it too closely. but appears to me that the shooter was trigger happy, and used very poor judgement.

I might suggest everybody be careful with your analysis, deductive abilities and the conclusions you come too,especially about fellow sleuthers,

as Freud said 'Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar'

MOO

 

[BKS]

Okay, without being a ME or a forensic anthropolgist, we can exclude vultures, most wild canids (not sure about foxes there), jaguars (of the animal variety), lions, and other big cats on Long Island. Also bears appear unlikely from the start. That leaves us, given the area, with mostly smaller birds up to gull, rodents and of course domestic canids. Now, I agree., you could see their work in the tissue ... wait, what tissue? We talk skeletal remains here. So if there was ever any of, for example, y-shaped puncture, it is gone with the tissue. Rodents leave parallel furrows on bones, true. And expescially on the bones they take away and sometimes the neighboring bones. So probably the mssing bones have a lot of those marks ..., well, unless it was a gull, they leave no teeth marks at all and the don't rip like vultures do. But then, I can imagine, they found rodent teethmarks on the bones anyway. On the bones they found. Which probably proves the existence of rodents in the area. But of course, without the missing bones, it doesn't prove what took them ... so ... nice article and probably useful in a case in which you have more than only skeletal remains.

Peter

I can't imagine an animal scurrying in, removing two bones from the victim's neck, then leaving with no trace. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Jenny9]

I am a babylon resident, avid surfer and sport fisherman. I know the water pretty well. The area where SG was found is effected by tides, but I do not want the impression to be given off that the water rushes in or out and rapids form because the tidal rush is so extreme. In fact the area where SG was found is mostly mud not waist high water (just using waist high as a reference.....I do not know exactly how high the water is). I actually think Truth walked the entire trail recently. He did not mention treacherous terrain.

and also remember that her family visits there often and i dont recall them saying they were not able to get to her site,or complained about mud and water

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

In Mari's attorney's presser where he discusses Gilbert's 911 call, he states Shannan can be heard screaming several times in the call. That's weird that his statements totally conflict with Det. Vincent Stephan's January assessment of the call:

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-all-out-effort-for-shannan-1.3473520

I've emailed Mr Stephan to see if he can elaborate on the discrepancy.

It appears that the statement the attorney WAS making at that presser last Tuesday, May 1 at the Hauppauge Medical Examiner in regards to Shannan Gilbert's 911 call was to say
she was SCREAMING and yelling and got in a scuffle regarding men trying to kill her AND he said she appeared to DROP her phone and RUN AWAY.

On the face of it - it sounds very dangerous for Shannan.

So, Mr. Ray DOES totally contradict Detective Stephen's letter to the paper.
hmmmmmmmmmm
TKM

:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::

 

[Jenny9]

I am a babylon resident, avid surfer and sport fisherman. I know the water pretty well. The area where SG was found is effected by tides, but I do not want the impression to be given off that the water rushes in or out and rapids form because the tidal rush is so extreme. In fact the area where SG was found is mostly mud not waist high water (just using waist high as a reference.....I do not know exactly how high the water is). I actually think Truth walked the entire trail recently. He did not mention treacherous terrain.

also now that my brain is awake, who would they call to find out if what the water table at sg site is if they are planning there long trip down here?i cannot recall any time that mari has said this in the media that she could not get to the site,anyone else recall this being said?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

I thought, I just did during the radio show ... only no beer bet for the websleuthers this time, but a look here bet for LE.

Peter

Hi Peter:

I enjoy your posts and I listened to you on the Websleuths show last night, but I am confused.

You are discussing Shannan Running from Mr. Coletti's and being found in the marsh, but you did not mention that you actually went to the scene of the "crime" and scouted out the terrain.

I wish you would go to Oak Beach and see how inpenetrable that marsh is, and the route that is alleged that Shannan took from Brewer's to Coletti's to (final place) Brennan's.

Id be keen to see your theory once you walked that route.

Thank you for being on the show last night.
TKM

 

[truthspider]

I am a babylon resident, avid surfer and sport fisherman. I know the water pretty well. The area where SG was found is effected by tides, but I do not want the impression to be given off that the water rushes in or out and rapids form because the tidal rush is so extreme. In fact the area where SG was found is mostly mud not waist high water (just using waist high as a reference.....I do not know exactly how high the water is). I actually think Truth walked the entire trail recently. He did not mention treacherous terrain.

I did walk the entire known trail that SG took, I did not take the fictional trail from the road, to where her possessions were found, to where her remains were found because you can't. You couldn't access the marsh from the road there where this fictional trail would require, until LE plowed 2 entrances with heavy machinery.

The trail she did follow that morning is well known, from JB's house over to the top of hatch way where she was last seen by BB. The notion that she could even make it into the marsh from this area doesn't seem realistic to me because from what I was able to observe the hedge of thorned thicket along the road would be impenetrable without the right tools and hours of work.

The only access to the marsh I could see is from either doubling back once you reach the far east end of oak beach, or from the known access point in the backyard of 47 larboard ct., or from ocean parkway. There may be some other entrance from behind some of the other houses east on larboard ct. but I couldn't see any.

As for the amount of water in the salt marsh area, sure I could see puddles and we all know about the vector control ditches, but nothing that someone would drowned in, not without a hurricane driven tidal surge in my opinion.

Native, I'm a baymen and have been a surfer (body boarder, sponger, shark biscuit) since I was 8. I bet if you head into the marshy area with a crab net you could pull all sorts of really interesting things from the muddy bottoms of those vector control ditches..... wanna suit up? If we jump in and do the clam dance we will probably find lots of little bones...

 

[mrspatton]

I am a babylon resident, avid surfer and sport fisherman. I know the water pretty well. The area where SG was found is effected by tides, but I do not want the impression to be given off that the water rushes in or out and rapids form because the tidal rush is so extreme. In fact the area where SG was found is mostly mud not waist high water (just using waist high as a reference.....I do not know exactly how high the water is). I actually think Truth walked the entire trail recently. He did not mention treacherous terrain.

Please read the numerous news reports regarding the area where she was found.......here's just one...http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/exam-of-remains-may-reveal-cause-of-death-1.3388774

"which police have said would have been under two to three feet of water at the time"

 

[PickleChris]

Please read the numerous news reports regarding the area where she was found.......here's just one...http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/exam-of-remains-may-reveal-cause-of-death-1.3388774

"which police have said would have been under two to three feet of water at the time"

I have read that as well. Being a local, I second the statement that it is usually just mud. The only time I have seen that area actually 'under water' (2 feet plus) was during a hurricane. Granted I'm not there everyday, but often enough to make an opinion.

 

[mrspatton]

the area where sg was found was closer to ocean pkwy.on a trail and about a 100ft just west of the exit ramp to get onto pkwy.i have lived in west islip most of my life and have taken ocean pkwy millions of time getting off this ramp and i dont ever remember this area being under water.the bay is on one side and the channel on the other,maybe during a hurricane they have met but not on an rainy day.

First of all mashes do not have to "meet" with the bay to flood or because of rain....here's some information on how marshes "work" so to speak.

http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/fs91_97.pdf

Marshes are under some water most of the time and grow and change when the sea level rises, as in tides,...anyway... here, again is one of numerous news stories stating the area was flooded..

Please read the numerous news reports regarding the area where she was found.......here's just one...http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking...eath-1.3388774

"which police have said would have been under two to three feet of water at the time" (the night of May 1st)

 

[mrspatton]

Just remember thought that the night she went missing, May 1, the tides were at their highest of the month. Also keep in mind she was a slender small woman, and had already been running and scared for some time before entering the marshes. I would think this would contribute to extreme fatigue before she even entered the marsh. It was also dark and she wouldn't have been able to see if she had stepped into a deep heavy mud patch.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Until we can hear the actual entire 911 call
AND see the Medical Examiner's Final Report on Shannan Gilbert

we are literally still in the dark regarding this case.

I have never been to the area Shannan Gilbert ran from - to or was finally disposited.

But I am very clear that the marsh is inpenetrable. Completely inpenetrable. TS mentioned in a thread above that
"impenetrable without the right tools and hours of work"

What completely escapes me is - why was Mallia searching THREE or FOUR or FIVE MILES AWAY from the last location that Shannan was seen running towards? Why didnt the police search that area in December 2010 when they found the Gilgo 4? And I just dont understand WHY the police were searching the Gilgo area (if that's what it is designated as....) when they found (Was it Megan Waterman they found first?)

That area is literally FOUR or FIVE miles up the road on Ocean Parkway. WHY WERENT THE POLICE SEARCHING THAT MARSH WHERE SHANNAN WAS FOUND as diligently as they were the Gilgo Beach area?? off of Ocean Parkway.

It makes absolutely NO SENSE.

TKM.