Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[Seaslug44]

Is the 911 emergency system in Suffolk County connected (shared/routed) to anybody in Oak Beach? Does Oak Beach have residents who volunteer their services in the event that a 911 call is pinged on their tower? Any medical or first-to-respond personnel in the Oak Beach gated community volunteering in that capacity? Finally, does anybody in the Oak Beach community possess a phone fetish that even he finds difficult to control?

Hello Adler and welcome to this discussion.

I have followed this case from inception and can shed some light on your questions about the 911 system.

• When SG made her 911 call, she had no clue where she was. She hinted that she could have been on Fire Island. When she made that statement, her call was transferred over to the State Park Police dispatcher who handles Jones Beach State Park. This action uncovered a major flaw in the 911 cell phone system; one department does not communicate with another departments. Jones Beach is in Nassau County. The park is a STATE PARK that is patrolled by NY State Park Police. Their dispatchers don't use the same information system as Suffolk County PD (where SG actually was).
  
• When GC made his 911 call, he called from his landline. The call went into the SUFFOLK County 911 system where the Marine Bureau of the Babylon 1st Precint was given the call. Same for the 2nd and 3rd 911 calls that came from other neighbors in the community. The problem was that Suffolk County 911 dispatch had ZERO knowledge that SG made her 911 call. Therefore, the officer who responded to the neighborhood calls was simply looking for a girl who was running around the neighborhood in a panic (he had no idea that the girl called for help and said she was going to be killed).

As far as a neighborhood watch or someone within the community who police would contact... well that does not exist anywhere around New York. There are even residents who live in the community who are active as well as retired police officers (and still there is no contact system to have them respond in the absence of law enforcement on duty).

 

[Peter Brendt]

Hello Adler and welcome to this discussion.

I have followed this case from inception and can shed some light on your questions about the 911 system.

• When SG made her 911 call, she had no clue where she was. She hinted that she could have been on Fire Island. When she made that statement, her call was transferred over to the State Park Police dispatcher who handles Jones Beach State Park. This action uncovered a major flaw in the 911 cell phone system; one department does not communicate with another departments. Jones Beach is in Nassau County. The park is a STATE PARK that is patrolled by NY State Park Police. Their dispatchers don't use the same information system as Suffolk County PD (where SG actually was).
  
• When GC made his 911 call, he called from his landline. The call went into the SUFFOLK County 911 system where the Marine Bureau of the Babylon 1st Precint was given the call. Same for the 2nd and 3rd 911 calls that came from other neighbors in the community. The problem was that Suffolk County 911 dispatch had ZERO knowledge that SG made her 911 call. Therefore, the officer who responded to the neighborhood calls was simply looking for a girl who was running around the neighborhood in a panic (he had no idea that the girl called for help and said she was going to be killed).

As far as a neighborhood watch or someone within the community who police would contact... well that does not exist anywhere around New York. There are even residents who live in the community who are active as well as retired police officers (and still there is no contact system to have them respond in the absence of law enforcement on duty).

Reading this, that means., any patrol car had to come from the mainland side and cross Nassau Co first before re-entering Suffolk on the island side?

Peter

 

[hawkshaw]

Not true. A SCPD could come down the RM Causeway in no more than 4 minutes and make a right turn. The area is no more than a 1/2 mile to the west and really no where near NC.

I am under the impression the Marine Bureau has a car assigned to the UNIT. Maybe they are looking for German submarines? If the Park Police is on duty during the midnight tour they have most likely one car to cover all the points NC and Suffolk County and parks to the north in SC. At 5AM what do you think the Park Police is really doing at that unearthly hour of the morning with so much ground to get lost in? The operator could be sleeping in his car on Ocean Parkway and nobody would see them.

I bet if a call came in that there was an armored car crashed on Ocean Parkway and hundred dollar bills were flying around the entire SCPD would have been there.

I saw what appeared to be a minor fender bender on 110 today. There were at least 8 cars on the scene, and more coming. Maybe Angela Davis was in the car. Maybe I read the accident wrong, I am only reporting what I saw or think I saw. In other words there are plenty of cars to respond.

Some one asked somewhere what is the protocol for a call of a woman screaming for help. I can only tell you what NYPD does. Everybody comes running even though most of them are unfounded. You have no choice but to go to the scene.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Not true. A SCPD could come down the RM Causeway in no more than 4 minutes and make a right turn. The area is no more than a 1/2 mile to the west and really no where near NC.

I am under the impression the Marine Bureau has a car assigned to the UNIT. Maybe they are looking for German submarines? If the Park Police is on duty during the midnight tour they have most likely one car to cover all the points NC and Suffolk County and parks to the north in SC. At 5AM what do you think the Park Police is really doing at that unearthly hour of the morning with so much ground to get lost in? The operator could be sleeping in his car on Ocean Parkway and nobody would see them.

I bet if a call came in that there was an armored car crashed on Ocean Parkway and hundred dollar bills were flying around the entire SCPD would have been there.

I saw what appeared to be a minor fender bender on 110 today. There were at least 8 cars on the scene, and more coming. Maybe Angela Davis was in the car. Maybe I read the accident wrong, I am only reporting what I saw or think I saw. In other words there are plenty of cars to respond.

Some one asked somewhere what is the protocol for a call of a woman screaming for help. I can only tell you what NYPD does. Everybody comes running even though most of them are unfounded. You have no choice but to go to the scene.

Thanks for clearing that up! So where was a patrol car then? Any idea where it should have been?

Peter

 

[hawkshaw]

I am not even sure if there was a car working that night, either in the SCPD or park Police. It wasn't yet in season for the summer crowd and so there is a good chance there was no car.

For all I know any car could have been parked in the brush and bramble not far from where SG was found LOL.

I can tell you one thing, if there was a report of gunshots, or a cop shot, there would have been 50 cars there in less than 5 minutes. Guaranteed.

You are aware of the scandal in NCPD where a cop visited his girlfriend 57x while on duty. He had a GPS in his car and no one was allowed to monitor the GPS because of a contractural deal made with the PBA and County.

I am not trying to knock the cops of any department, but considering the terrains of NC and SC, I would be surprised if most of them weren't snuggled tight in their beds at 5AM. The boredom alone would put even the best of cops to sleep. No one is looking at the monitors, so why not make the best of it.

 

[fred&edna]

Heck, I'm still stuck on the 48 yr old "drifter" at JB's house. Is it common for police (and media) to withhold this information? If so, why?

 

[LINative13]

It is tough to respond to a location when you do not know where the location is. Say there was a marine unit at cedar beach and was sent to JONES BEACH where SG said she originally was then had to turn around and go back to oak beach well that can take a solid 20-40 minutes. How long was the response time from when GC called police, and told them where she actually was?

 

[hawkshaw]

SG didn't run into the wetlands thru bramble that is nearly inpenatratable, take off her cloths and dispose of her lifeline (cellphone) and then continue 3/4s of a mile east, huddle under a small bush and expire...SCPD should be embarrassed that this is the theory they're putting forward.

On a freezing New Year's morning many years ago a motorist found a dead body in the marshlands near JFK. He hit a bump and lost a hubcap. Going the few feet into the marsh area he finds a body wrapped in a carpet. It is frozen stiff.

Now this was right on the border of Nassau and Queens Counties. He jumps in his car and goes looking for a cop. The first one he sees is a NCPD cop parked in a somewhat hidden area. He goes right to the car and finds the cop sound asleep. Wakes up the cop with his screams. NC cop tells him it is NYPD jurisdiction, and goes back to sleep. The poor guy is hysterical and goes looking for another cop. He finds a Housing Cop in a car and tells that cop. At the time HAPD and NYPD were not merged. HAPD calls us.

We get there and so does the precinct detective boss. Body is wrapped in a carpet with a tie around it. looking at his hands we find they are tied to his rear and his feet. The LT thinks this may be a suicide. Maybe an OD that was dumped by his friends.

Body is frozen to the ground. We call ESU to pry it loose. LT says wait and see what they are going to tell us. He is right. They said they don't have the tools. The LT tells them just do it.

Now this all took about a couple of hours. The LT is curious about the NCPD cop and he goes looking for him. Yup, the guy was still sound asleep.

We used to have a joke when we found a body with multiple stab wounds. We would say the guy was coring an apple and the knife slipped time and time again....

 

[MrsPC]

on Gilbert's facebook - family posted that 48 hrs is doing another special to air in June.

 

[Jenny9]

:moo:

on Gilbert's facebook - family posted that 48 hrs is doing another special to air in June.

I dont know about anyone else,but I have never seen 48 hrs do so many shows on one case.imo i have said from the beginning i think they are also getting tips or threats?from sk to keep it in the news.its strange that when the local news starts quiteing down about it,theres another 48 hrs show?and they are also around the times that the girls disappeared and were found?anyone else think this???

 

[LINative13]

Maybe because this case is pretty crazy. LE HAS to be holding back numerous key details. So when you release bits and pieces (some fibs as well) the case looks absolutely insane.

 

[truthspider]

Does not the stability/instability of a person with a prosthetic leg often depend on where on the leg the amputation occurred?

Yes, and it's a transfemoral amputation in case you were wondering.

 

[hawkshaw]

Big Cases have big problems. I tried to write about it earlier. I am listening to a book called Storming Las Vegas. It is a true story about a gang that robbed casinos and armored cars in Las Vegas. On disc 7 the author describes the problems with an investigation such as this. It could have come from my post if I had writtn it before the book was published.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

well -sleuthers - the zodiac killer was NEVER caught (www.zodiackiller.com)

LISK follows a classic pattern. Like the Sonoma co-ed Killer he desposits his victims
in groups. He might be a monomaniac. If so, he will be the hardest to
capture. He will likely soon move on. There never was a prime suspect
for the Sonoma Killer, nor was there for EAR.

Problem for the pubic is, Much detail is not releasable and so the police will ALWAYS have a poker face to the press.

The only news is that 48 hours is going to be doing yet ANOTHER show on LISK in June.... so....until then......

TKM

 

[Theforeigner]

well -sleuthers - the zodiac killer was NEVER caught (www.zodiackiller.com)

LISK follows a classic pattern. Like the Sonoma co-ed Killer he desposits his victims
in groups. He might be a monomaniac. If so, he will be the hardest to
capture. He will likely soon move on. There never was a prime suspect
for the Sonoma Killer, nor was there for EAR.

Problem for the pubic is, Much detail is not releasable and so the police will ALWAYS have a poker face to the press.

The only news is that 48 hours is going to be doing yet ANOTHER show on LISK in June.... so....until then......

TKM

Not sure what you mean by " a classic pattern" ?

And the "Sonoma co-ed Killer", this case also called "Santa Rosa Hitchhiker murders" did not "desposits his victims in groups"

He kidnapped and killed two young teenagers (two friends) at the same time/together and dumped their bodies together.

Thise two young girls was;
Yvonne Weber 13 years old, and Maureen Sterling 12 years old, they disappeared Feb 4, 1972 and was found in Dec 1972.

Then 6 months later, Jul 15, 1973, another young girl disappeared, it was:
Carolyn Nadine Davis, 15 years old, her body was found Aug 1, 1973, in the very same spot as Yvonne Weber and Maureen Sterling.

But the other 4, possibly 5, victims were dumped in different spots, several miles appart, in the Sonoma area.

Here is a great site, the absolute best about thise killing:
http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com/

 

[Peter Brendt]

well -sleuthers - the zodiac killer was NEVER caught (www.zodiackiller.com)

LISK follows a classic pattern. Like the Sonoma co-ed Killer he desposits his victims
in groups. He might be a monomaniac. If so, he will be the hardest to
capture. He will likely soon move on. There never was a prime suspect
for the Sonoma Killer, nor was there for EAR.

Problem for the pubic is, Much detail is not releasable and so the police will ALWAYS have a poker face to the press.

The only news is that 48 hours is going to be doing yet ANOTHER show on LISK in June.... so....until then......

TKM

Yep, Zodiac was never caught ... and so were some others. Personally, I think, because a lot of people thought rather about why it is so hard to catch SKs than actually try to catch them.
Sonoma killed two girls, he abducted together and dumped together. That is not really clustering. But other SKs clustered. Some types do so for a number of reasons and each SK has a special patterns of reasons to do so or not, depending on what he needs from the murders. So just hanging everything on one generalized detail helps not much, I'm afraid.
And yes, since the 70s, police learned to tell not much to the public. If they can, they keep even the existence of an SK in an area a secret. And since the 70s, the time, SKs can roam free and kill people has about tripled. LE would do good to remember, that they rarely actually caught an SK if not by luck. Rifkin was stopped for driving with a defective tail light, Bundy for speeding. Gacy was literally carried to the LE's doorstep by some amateurs (and still they tried to ignore him for a while). Most of the cases who actually got solved by investigation were solved by those first generation BAU profilers. Wayne Williams for example or Robert Hanson. So, maybe, just maybe, LE should overthink their current strategies?

Peter

 

[BKS]

"Modern theory suggests that individuals are far more changeable and can reveal very different characteristics in different situations."

http://www.scics.gc.ca/CMFiles/831-016005-we11HOP-1262012-7454.pdf

 

[CMan0928]

Yep, Zodiac was never caught ... and so were some others. Personally, I think, because a lot of people thought rather about why it is so hard to catch SKs than actually try to catch them.
Sonoma killed two girls, he abducted together and dumped together. That is not really clustering. But other SKs clustered. Some types do so for a number of reasons and each SK has a special patterns of reasons to do so or not, depending on what he needs from the murders. So just hanging everything on one generalized detail helps not much, I'm afraid.
And yes, since the 70s, police learned to tell not much to the public. If they can, they keep even the existence of an SK in an area a secret. And since the 70s, the time, SKs can roam free and kill people has about tripled. LE would do good to remember, that they rarely actually caught an SK if not by luck. Rifkin was stopped for driving with a defective tail light, Bundy for speeding. Gacy was literally carried to the LE's doorstep by some amateurs (and still they tried to ignore him for a while). Most of the cases who actually got solved by investigation were solved by those first generation BAU profilers. Wayne Williams for example or Robert Hanson. So, maybe, just maybe, LE should overthink their current strategies?

Peter

Correction, Joel Rifkin was pulled over for not having any license plates on his truck.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Correction, Joel Rifkin was pulled over for not having any license plates on his truck.

Right, the one with the headlights was another guy. Have to look it up. So well, they pulled Rifkin over for plates and AFTER that, they discovered something smelled bad on the bed. Point is, they didn't come to Rifkin by investigative measures but by pure chance.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

"Modern theory suggests that individuals are far more changeable and can reveal very different characteristics in different situations."

http://www.scics.gc.ca/CMFiles/831-016005-we11HOP-1262012-7454.pdf

Interesting read, but sometimes a little bit too focused on the Pinkton case which in details blocks the view on the bigger picture. But then, maybe it's only the way, I feel it.

Peter