Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

Discussion in 'LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads' started by Seaslug44, Dec 14, 2011.

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  1. BKS

    BKS Sleuthhound

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    Go to Google Earth (you'll have to download) and type in #8 The Fairway, Oak Beach, New York. Google Earth has aerial photos from 1994-2012. If you scroll to the right you can see the changes in the area where Shannon was found. If you scroll left you can go to the area where the bodies were found at Gilgo Beach. Also, do the same for the Holiday Inn Express in Happauge. Notably on 4/29/2001 holes were dug for planting trees at the site where the GB4 were found. You can also see from these views that there is a turnaround in that area. Later you can see where the trees grew. Odd to me that trees were planted right there in that location and no where else along that area.
     
  2. BKS

    BKS Sleuthhound

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    Question: Is the large building to the right of where the GB4 were found the Port Authority Bus Station? If not, what is it?
     
  3. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    PROVING SOMETHING: Many years ago I read an article in a popular magazine where Adoph Eichmann's son was being interviewed. Mr.Eichmann said it was a lie that his father killed 6 million Jews - he only killed 5 million. Who can prove him wrong?

    Some folks have even said the Holocaust was a complete fabrication.

    We have a few billion folks here, a few billion there, and many other billions all over the place that believe or don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God. He arrived here on an express train from up above 2,000 years ago. I believe it because I am too afraid NOT to believe it.

    I believe I know enough about the SCPD to what may appear to you to be wild accusations.
     
  4. Just K

    Just K New Member

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    Well, maybe the trees were his landmark. SG was found under a hardwood tree as well.
     
  5. Adler

    Adler New Member

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    It's difficult locating the 2001 images. I keep switching between Seaslug's photos and Google Earth, and locating the light ban that crosses the Parkway before counting 11 longer (not shorter) white freeway stripes from there to the direction of the lampposts. In the marsh from there and on Google Earth there is a white thing in the brush by the road tracks you mention.

    Sorry, I don't have a trained eye for these things.

    Another way to look at it: if you follow the line from the dock at 78 Hawser begins, and intersect the road tracks you mention, and, I believe, the location where remains were found, it forms just about a 90 degree angle to the Parkway. Right?

    Not sure. But all the images I see were post LE disruption.

    Interesting point about the planting of trees. Thanks.
     
  6. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    And some people believe in alien mind benders and therefore wear aluminum hats. So what? If I want to talk about that kind of beliefs, I go to an esoteric forum. This is a true crime board. Entirely different animal.
    What bothers me right now more, is that you obviously only browesed the last post. I agreed with some of your accusations. I only said, SCPD isn't the only PD in the world with such problems and unable to handle any kind of investigation which would include an SK. Got it now?
    On the other hand, thinking again about it, you delivered some good examples, why ignoring evidence is stupid. Everyone can prove Eichmann's son wrong, if he only thinks about the details and figures, where the evidence is. The Germans were (and still are) very exact bookkeepers. The old lists still exist. The Simon Wiesenthal Institute has the copies, so has the German Bundesarchiv. The original files found in 1945 are attached to the documentation about the N├╝nberger Trials. So one would only need to count names. Takes a while to count till 6 million. But the accusation can be proven. Most people are only too lazy and rather claim, it is impossible to prove it. So they let those, who, driven by a certain bias, claim, the Holocaust never happened, just talk.
    Adapted to our case here, it means, somewhere is evidence, one needs only to find it. But since the sex-trafficking theory is all yours ...
     
  7. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Ooookay ... those mysterious tire tracks! First of all, there are no images between 9/19/2009 (6 1/2 months before SG's disappearance) and 9/19/2010 (4 1/2 months later). So none of the photos is near enough in time to the night of May 1st to prove anything. Second, it strikes me a little weird, that the alleged killer in a 4x4 left the very same track marks also on older images, long before SG disappeared. And always the very same. What strikes me even weirder is, those "tracks" are basically two long straight lines (at least if that is what you claim are tire tracks in the green) and where they cross the road, the asphalt has another color. If those are the tire tracks, that had to be a hell of a monster truck, because he left a track as wide as an old drainage canal from the times Oak Beach was constructed. You can go and take an object with a known length (for example the SUV near the house) and compare it to the width of those "tracks". Some of them are so wide the car would have to drive perpendicular to cover the width!
     
  8. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Humm, trees planted. Didn't write landscaping and construction in the profile in Spring 2011? Now, that's a kind of a lead, but how to tell that SCPD?
     
  9. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    Mr.B, you go far afield with your post about the Eichmann post. The point is that it is so obvious and there are some that will still argue the point. The story of Jesus comes from the Bible. Not being an expert or even a novice on the Bible, I can't tell you what is in it.

    NOTHING IS 1000% believable for those that refuse to believe.

    If I work hard enough and I still had the resources I could make you look like SK.
     
  10. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    I used your example for why it is impossible to find evidence as an example it is possible to find evidence. That was Eichmann. And if Eichmann is too far afield for you, why did you use him as example in the first place?
    I would like to spare us the Bible thing here, it would cause some emotional uproar if I would use the existence of Jesus as an example for finding evidence. So please, don't tempt me.

    And NOTHING is 1000% convincing for those who insist in believing instead looking at the facts.


    Cut out the threats, Hawkshaw. I react a little bit stingy on such ideas. Of course, you could plant evidence, tell rumors, start a little campaign. But at some point, you would make a mistake and at that point, I would be waiting for you. And trust me, the end result would be more sold books for me than ever. :floorlaugh:
     
  11. Samantha Spade

    Samantha Spade New Member

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    Beliefs and intuition, especially those such as Hawks, which are based on experience working out in the field, often lead to the facts which are otherwise hidden to those without such tacit knowledge.

    Don't take my word for it. Ask Vernon Geberth, or other experienced investigators.
     
  12. Samantha Spade

    Samantha Spade New Member

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    and PB, Hawk wasn't threatening you. He was making a point.
    Are you sure all those books you supposedly sold aren't fiction?
     
  13. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Vernon Geberth? The man who served for forty years at the NYPD? The man who wrote books about how to handle murder investigations (with facts, not just hunches) before he was banned from teaching his knowledge to the younger detectives by the new police chief? Buahahaha! Samantha, that guy knows more about profiling than the whole BAU together. He doesn't need to rely on hunches, he knows enough to conclude.
     
  14. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    You don't tell someone you can mark him as SK, that's pretty rude and provokes a response you may not like. And yes, my books are fiction, therefore we call them novels. But on another level, since I just got another check for it and since I pay bills from the income of my writing, I think, they are very real. Of course, if you're able to read (I suggest at least two languages), you could also look them up on my website. Or just enter my name at Amazon. Sooo ... as usual, I prove my point while you spread only insults and hot air. Hush, back in you closet, kid!
     
  15. Adler

    Adler New Member

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    unless you get a computer to do the counting.
     
  16. Samantha Spade

    Samantha Spade New Member

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    Show us proof of these checks you receive mr. B.

    And obviously you haven't read vernon geberth's manual.

    I wish you never came out of the closet,
     
  17. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    That would be hard, the original lists are from 1944 and 1945. So type writer. I have no idea whether anybody ever scanned them and let some OCR software run over them. But whatever, the point is they exist.
     
  18. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    I will not show you any bank documents, if that's what you're aiming for. And if you look at Amazon.com and Amazon.de everybody can see, those books exist. So stop foaming and stomp with your feet, kid!

    And about Vernon Geberth? To make it short, here is the description of one of his books:
    Renowned for being THE definitive source of homicide investigation, Practical Homicide Investigation: Tactics, Procedures, and Forensic Techniques is the recognized protocol used by investigative divisions of major police departments throughout the world. It is also the text used in most police academies, including the prestigious FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. It emphasizes essential procedures, combines detailed techniques with instructive case studies, and outlines the foundation on which to build a solid, prosecutable case.

    The fundamental criminal investigative techniques stressed in the Fourth Edition are crucial for effective inquiry into sudden and violent death. Eminent author, lecturer, consultant, and expert witness Vernon J. Geberth begins the book with a comprehensive discussion of homicide crime scenes. The book evolves chronologically from initial police notification, the correct police response that follows, and the subsequent steps necessary to conduct an intelligent investigation. It then delves into more technical aspects of homicide investigation,

    The word, you have a problem with is probably in the line next to the last one. It's called "intelligent" and means the use of logic instead of hunches.
     
  19. Samantha Spade

    Samantha Spade New Member

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    You are so clueless, but since you come across as confident (uh, how do you say arrogant blowhard in german?) you somehow convince some people and mostly yourself that you are an all knowing expert. It is so apparent to people who work in the real world and who learn from their own experiences as well as listening and learning from the real world experiences of others and not just from classroom theory, that you really don't know squat. have you even listened to Commander Geberth's opinion on Shannan's death? So unlike yours. Who would have figured.
     
  20. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

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    SS, thanks for the wing support. I was going to post a message to ask other readers if they construed as to what I wrote a ‘threat’ to RB. You beat me to the punch. If there are any threats made I think they come from PB.

    PROFILERS: We had a murder case of a 13 year old that went cold. I was assigned to take another look at it. A Profile from a NYPD profiler provided us with such a profile.

    He told us the killer was very close to the victim. That we should have a sit down with the family and expand it outwards until we found a viable suspect.

    He told us the killer would probably skip the wake and funeral. That he would be obsessed with the TV coverage. We might find some satanic literature in his room. We should then look for stressors that drove the killer to kill.

    What we found was a reluctance of certain family members to re-open the case.
    We found that the victim’s older ‘uncle’ was actually her brother. We found that the suspect was forced to live with his grandparents in relative squalor while his ‘sister’ lived in a relatively secure home in the first floor apartment with her and HIS mother and her father.

    We visited the grandparents apartment in July. There were cats running around the house. Hair balls littered the floor. A once live Christmas Tree with ornaments was still on the living room floor. The suspect’s room was littered with satanic material and he had an obsession with the Dungeons and Dragons game. We brought him in for questioning.

    He admitted that he began molesting her when she was only 7 years old. He was at least 10 years older. He started by peeing with the bathroom door and it progressed to ‘you show me yours and I’ll show you mine. They then went into touch and feel. He never admitted to fornicating with her. He then learns the horrible truth that it was his sister. That is sister, the mother of the girl was actually his mother. Talk about triggers.

    He also found out his ‘brother’ was actually his uncle, the brother of the mother. It was the brother/uncle that didn’t want us to pursue this case. The suspect had severely deformed hands. I thought it was a genetic disorder from incest.

    On the night before the murder the suspect stayed with his friend after going out doing the town. While he was doing his thing in NYC the car was broken into and his treasured music collection was stolen. He would return home later the next day and learn the girl was missing. She was found later between her home and the newsstand where she went to get the paper at 7AM, on the coldest day of the year. She wanted to read a story about Wayne Newton. Weird, isn’t it.

    There is a wake and a funeral. He doesn’t show up for at least the wake. He decides he is going out with his friend doing the town.

    He admits that he and his friend took delight in mutilating her dolls by cutting out the breast area.

    We take him for a poly. He fails big time. He pleads for a do over. The poly experts tell us it is not necessary. He did it, no question about it. They relent and give us another appointment for the next morning. I go to pick him up. He is living in an apartment now with his uncle/brother, or maybe his father. The door is locked. I fear that he may have committed suicide. We bust open the door, he isn’t there. We find out later that he went to Pennsylvania with his pal and they went to a library to research how to beat a polygraph.

    His friend is asked to take a poly. He is unresponsive to the questions by answering the questions in muti-worded responses. He is shifting his feet and moving around, presumably to throw the examination off.

    A super great profile. We never made the case and 22 years later it remains unsolved.

    I later learn that the same profiler does a work-up for a Westchester PD on a 16 year old kid named Jeffrey Deskovic. Jeffrey fit’s the profile. He becomes suspect #1 for the cops. They work on him and he ‘confesses’ to a crime he didn’t commit. That was proven beyond any doubt after he received a compressive and updated DNA review. He was released soon thereafter, and the real killer was identified and convicted of a crime that Deksovic served 16 years for.

    Deskovic will tell you the profile may have been the biggest factor that got the cops interested in him and forced a false confession from him

    PS. The real killer lived only doors away from the victim and never came to the attention of the police.

    Profiles are like police sketches or tits on a bull. Worthless. They make for great reading. In my case we just couldn’t push it through. One reason is we had an equally good suspect not only a few blocks from where the girl lived. She had to pass his home on the way to the newsstand. Months later he would be arrested and convicted for raping a woman on the side of the Van Wyck Expressway at 7am in the morning. He was drunk and his efforts to get into the home of his girlfriend were turned down. He went looking for someone to take his rage out on.

    IMO, and it is purely subjective, the girlfriend that denied him entry into her apartment and the lady that was raped could have been the victim only 10yrs older, the GF and the victim 25 years older. They looked almost like family.

    He threatened the rape victim with a large stone he found nearby. He told her he would bash her brains in if she didn’t comply. The 13 year old was killed with a blow to the head by a large piece of stone found at the murder scene.

    Profilers are entertainment to assuage the public thirst for cases to be solved. When that fails they turn to psychics. Both are for entertainment and PR purposes only.
     
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