Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

When I started going through the documents in the court case, I did read the second autopsy report. No apparent drugs in her system, illicit, or otherwise. Now, I don't know enough about forensics to know how long a drug would stay or be viable in samples involved in decomposition, whether it's possible to find drugs taken immediately or soon before death when a body is decomposed. I don't know what the process and procedure is.
The more I think about this...the more I think they mentioned CVS to imply that SG was all wacked out on drugs. I don't think there has been any concrete evidence that she even took any drugs. But if they want you to believe that she was erratic and refusing to leave brewer's house, drugs would be a good reason/excuse. She is the only one found on the south side of the parkway. The SCPD didn't want to bother to set up a perimeter and search within a couple of miles from where she was last seen? I get that the landscape is thick and hard to search. Unless they did search and her body was not there yet. That's one thing I keep thinking, that they caught her, and held her for some time before they actually killed her and dropped her body there strategically, to go along with the story that she ran and got away and just was so drugged out that she fell and drowned or died another way in the marsh. Then why would her pants and other belongings be so much closer to the homes than where she was eventually found by K9? I think that is where they may have caught her.

I spent a lot of time thinking and looking at the map. it looks like the GB4 were placed in equal distances from one another, and I believe they were all dropped there at the same time because of that. But why so close together, might as well have placed them all together?

Do we know at what point SGs 911 call started and when it ended? And WHY it ended? Perhaps whoever was chasing her caught up with her and ended the call? Seems ridiculous that their story is that she would NOT leave Brewer's house. And to find an earing right by his stairs? I'd assume that was from some sort of struggle. Not too common to just drop an earing. And I am curious as to why she would have run past placa's house and a few more before stopping at GCs. I am trying to find out what time SGs call was started and what time GCs call started. And what time BBs call came in. I believe they caught up to her. I don't think she was immediately killed.

So many unanswered questions. And I have mapped out the entire gated area and looked up property owners for every home. Keep in mind, you don't just buy a house and move into that community. You have to be approved by the board, and from the rumors, they don't like outsiders.
 
Makes no sense because she wasn't too scared to call 911 herself. So why be afraid of him calling the cops?
Could it be that Shannan, did not believe Coletti was actually calling 911? If she thought Coletti was calling someone else, that could cause her to bolt. At this point I believe Shannan was so terrorized, and emotionally distraught that she was acting on pure fear.
I have read someone else suggest that perhaps she recognized him...maybe he had been at the party earlier? I don't think his story is 100% true. I think he was covering up. After watching an interview with him where he is chuckling when talking about dead girls, and discovering more an more about the residents in the community, I stopped trusting him.
 
To me, at least, what I think would be helpful in tying together the murders is knowing who picked up the GB4, and their destination. It's possible, in my mind, that they were picked up, offered a good amount of money for a party, which happened to be at Oak Beach. Would be interesting if Pak was the person who picked up any of the other girls to take them to a party. Maybe some of the other girls knew of him and trusted his reputation in some way? Just throwing another angle out there.
Amber Lynn Costello was not only picked up by her date just around the corner from her residence in LI, she had at least two to three telephone conversations earlier that day w. a client (presumably the client that then offered to pick her up per her roommate Dave Schallet).
Melissa Barthelemy was last seen outside her apt. in BX, NY, presumably waiting for a ride from someone (according to her x-BF/pimp John Terry a date that she had arranged by herself for LI whete he had driven her on previous occasions).
Megan Waterman was also picked up by someone the night she disappeared, just down the road from LI hotel that she had just checked into a frw hours before).
 
Count me in with the White Rabbit crew. Seems almost certain she had an accidental death which is likely the result of a drug interaction. The detectives recall of the 911 (would still like to hear it) seems to fit the timeline of events and makes sense. She goes to the meet and they do drugs, then fight which is not uncommon in those scenarios. Shannon is paranoid from the drugs and maybe the John did cross a big line and try's to hurt her over services/money. She calls 9/11 then she runs down the block knocking on doors, eventually ends up at Hackett's. He brings her in and treats her like a patient which is consistent with his weird behavior and history. Takes down her info (how he got her moms number) and he gives her a sedative which accidentally kills her. Hackett freaks and he dumps her body. Certainly Hackett should be held responsible if it can be proven but this basically feels closed to me now in reference to the GB4. Never thought it was connected personally. I give her mother credit for keeping her name connected and in the news. She clearly loved her.

Sorry, Harsh. It is possible that Brewer or Hack accidentally killed her as you described, but even that can’t be the whole story. The thing is, there IS a cover up. There are multiple narratives for details that that don’t make immediate sense to lie about if this were simple- why do others care to cover it up if she were beaten to death or accidentally poisoned? I would hope the neighbors would care to expose it if either happened. But if they were not only so callous to not expose the behavior, they were motivated to become part of the cover up.

Immediately, it makes sense to lie about whether or not there was money exchanged and if sex occurred- it is illegal to buy or sell sex. Some inconsistent stories could be explained by witnesses filling in blanks for themselves, although once it is learned that stuff got serious, each witness has a responsibility to describe what they remember and not fill in any blanks. There is little evidence witnesses were interested in getting to the bottom of what happened.

The conflicting narratives about Hack calling Mari, a trip to CVS, whether Shannan ran into reeds or down the street, how long it took for police to arrive, what Shannan was wearing on her feet, whether or not Hack saw her, whether she was unsteady or able to run, what words were exchanged between Pak and Coletti.... what is the point of all the statements that are not credible? They don’t cover up the crimes of buying or selling sex, plus, what is it for the rest of Oak Beach to concern themselves with getting Brewer out of fairly mild legal trouble. If Shannan survived, there would be no reason to fear she is going to expose her John, being that she faced more serious legal trouble. (More so that she had had a prior, but there is no way of knowing if that was known to the players. That datum makes it more difficult to think she would dial 911 for a less serious reason than her very life being on the line.)

What danger did would it pose Oak Beach residents if she were having a psychotic break? That is not a crime. Residents could have just given consistent remarks that she wigged out and ran that-a-way. If she were given a drug that caused her to have a drug-induced psychotic break, the same thing applies, consistent remarks that she wigged out and ran that-a-way. If she survived and reported negligently being given drugs, or died and an autopsy found drugs, that could be dealt with later. By the time that happened-if it happened- all evidence would be long gone and it would be her word (or autopsy results) against Brewer, Pak or possibly Hack.

If she simply freaked out, with or without drugs, there was no reason for all of the WEIRD statements that are not very credible. It is notable that of the conflicting statements, there is not a soul who expressed concern for Shannan save for Coletti in some versions of his narrative, but in the version where he is concerned, he doesn’t behave rationally. (The most concerned version of Coletti’s narratives has him go outside unnecessarily when a strange dude is chasing someone- who may be armed, who may have friends- who may not appreciate Colletti’s interference in his chase.) The lack of concern for Shannan makes me think that the Oak Beach players had to distance themselves from any concern for Shannan, because acknowledging her fright would have meant facing up to their own part in causing it. If they did not feel at all responsible for her circumstances, it would have been easier to empathize with her, guilt-free.

Alex was the only one who expressed concern and had consistent stories. Who would have seen that coming?

Then, in addition to the behavior of Oak Beach, you have the police fail to investigate in a way that appears serious- and refuse to release the 911 calls- at least Shannan’s if Colletti, Brennan, and any other callers, if they exist, have a privacy concern? At least Shannan’s own voice if the police are embarrassed by their end of the conversation? Because of an “active investigation” into a “tragic misadventure?” So many of the publicly conflicting accounts are either known by the police or could be, with a more rigorous investigation. How did Pak and Brewer meet each other/when were they in contact with one another? Was there a trip to CVS? What did the CCTV at the gate pick up? What times were any outgoing calls to Shannan from Pak? What time were in coming calls? Were any answered? And what happened on Shannan’s 911 call? For real, not for a letter to the editor.

There is simply no way that Shannan died of exposure. It is not the simplest explanation-it is the most absurd explanation.

As said above by Sleuth Noob and others, the only possibility is that someone got to her and killed her. Perhaps by accident- such as a dosage mistake or forced-used mistake, or on purpose. If it were an accident, word would have to have gotten to Coletti very quickly. Or, the accident preceded killing her on purpose.

One of my theories for how Shannan got to where she was found was that Pak brought her there dead on his way home- although I really don’t have a favored theory for who killed her or if it was an accident. .

I wonder which way the police would have come? It is possible that their route would be known to someone who shared this info with Pak. Then she could have been strapped into the passenger seat of car. He could have been on OBP while the police were chatting with Coletti. As skinny as she was, and given all the alleged running she was doing-at least when she wasn’t stumbling- she could have already been stiffening into a sitting position, and Pak could have put her in the marsh that very morning. I wonder if the bush she was supposedly leaning on would realistically support a person still alive, but dying of exposure.

She could have been put into Pak’s car, and by the time he went to dump her, she could have been in partial rigor. (Lots of lactic acid, little body fat.) After sitting her dead body against a bush, he could have taken either of the bridges- forgetting the highway names and too lazy to find them- back to the main L. I. Island and head back home.

If Shannan were put there that morning, Pak is the best theory to me, since the police did not see him immediately after, with mud, etc. There are some reasons to believe her belongings made it to Hack’s back yard well after Shannan made it to her location. And there are some reasons, such as that it is a dryer route and more direct, to think that Shannan got there via the highway. But there is no particular reason to think she was already dumped before the sun was high on May 1st. I’m just speculating.

MOO.
 
Amber Lynn Costello was not only picked up by her date just around the corner from her residence in LI, she had at least two to three telephone conversations earlier that day w. a client (presumably the client that then offered to pick her up per her roommate Dave Schallet).
Melissa Barthelemy was last seen outside her apt. in BX, NY, presumably waiting for a ride from someone (according to her x-BF/pimp John Terry a date that she had arranged by herself for LI whete he had driven her on previous occasions).
Megan Waterman was also picked up by someone the night she disappeared, just down the road from LI hotel that she had just checked into a frw hours before).


The narrative that these victims arranged their dates on their own never comes from reliable sources. LE could confirm whom, for instance, Terry was in contact with v. whom Melissa was in contact with. But there is a story from Melissa’s sister or friend (forgot which, sorry) about her being beaten and threatened for independent contracting.

Amber Lynn’s phone wasn’t really hers, it was Dave’s. Who made this date? We only know per Dave. I guess LE couldn’t determine who was on the phone, Amber or Dave, but they certainly could know more about where the calls came from/went to.

Megan left the hotel 10 minutes (enough time to freshen up) after speaking with her Romeo Pimp. So who made that date? Or, who set her up to go to out without her phone on some other pretext? Her pimp was incarcerated for trafficking, so there isn’t even the appearance that she was independent.

The first GB4 victim, Maureen, who disappeared after calling from Penn terminal was supposedly working alone—- and I know there are stories that support this such as her bringing a friend in by having her (female) friend drive her, etc. Yet there is a narrative of a male who was in charge of refreshing her ads (and her friend’s, who was now sold on the benefits of escorting). And that male friend apparently caused them to make little money- I think the implication is he sabotaged them- by falling to refresh ads well. And that night there was a robbery and an abduction. It is not clear at all who this friend was, and if there is any possibility he could have knowingly or unknowingly helped a person victimize Maureen. In addition, we do not really know if there could have been a male, such as this ad refresher, coaching Maureen in her grooming if her “recruit.” Either way, he certainly had something to do with refreshing ads. For free? For a commission? Maybe Maureen was outbid.

Akeem, as far as I know, is not impulsive or cheap, but he had no issues trafficking women or drugs. Pak was never afraid to charge for anything. ( He wanted compensation for his depo with Ray!) Dave seems extraordinarily vulnerable himself, and I could see him making a deal either to spare his life after allegedly stealing from Johns and deserving to be killed for his part, or needing a big payday, or both. I know nothing about the ad refresher except that the male pronoun has been used to refer to him, but I concede that that could be an assumption made early on.

There is really no evidence of big, high paying jobs or of the last 2 GB4 victims making arrangements with their dates to leave their phones. The narratives of the big bucks, and the assertions the the escorts themselves agreed to leave their phones, rather than being assured by Akeem and Dave that it will be safe, come from pimps/boyfriends/co-addicted “just friends” roommates. I think of Dave as a kind of Romeo-happens-to-be-like-a-brother-to-me pimp.

MOO

Edited to add: Megan had an escort agency ad up the night she was abducted.
 
Sorry, Harsh. It is possible that Brewer or Hack accidentally killed her as you described, but even that can’t be the whole story. The thing is, there IS a cover up. There are multiple narratives for details that that don’t make immediate sense to lie about if this were simple- why do others care to cover it up if she were beaten to death or accidentally poisoned? I would hope the neighbors would care to expose it if either happened. But if they were not only so callous to not expose the behavior, they were motivated to become part of the cover up.

Immediately, it makes sense to lie about whether or not there was money exchanged and if sex occurred- it is illegal to buy or sell sex. Some inconsistent stories could be explained by witnesses filling in blanks for themselves, although once it is learned that stuff got serious, each witness has a responsibility to describe what they remember and not fill in any blanks. There is little evidence witnesses were interested in getting to the bottom of what happened.

The conflicting narratives about Hack calling Mari, a trip to CVS, whether Shannan ran into reeds or down the street, how long it took for police to arrive, what Shannan was wearing on her feet, whether or not Hack saw her, whether she was unsteady or able to run, what words were exchanged between Pak and Coletti.... what is the point of all the statements that are not credible? They don’t cover up the crimes of buying or selling sex, plus, what is it for the rest of Oak Beach to concern themselves with getting Brewer out of fairly mild legal trouble. If Shannan survived, there would be no reason to fear she is going to expose her John, being that she faced more serious legal trouble. (More so that she had had a prior, but there is no way of knowing if that was known to the players. That datum makes it more difficult to think she would dial 911 for a less serious reason than her very life being on the line.)

What danger did would it pose Oak Beach residents if she were having a psychotic break? That is not a crime. Residents could have just given consistent remarks that she wigged out and ran that-a-way. If she were given a drug that caused her to have a drug-induced psychotic break, the same thing applies, consistent remarks that she wigged out and ran that-a-way. If she survived and reported negligently being given drugs, or died and an autopsy found drugs, that could be dealt with later. By the time that happened-if it happened- all evidence would be long gone and it would be her word (or autopsy results) against Brewer, Pak or possibly Hack.

If she simply freaked out, with or without drugs, there was no reason for all of the WEIRD statements that are not very credible. It is notable that of the conflicting statements, there is not a soul who expressed concern for Shannan save for Coletti in some versions of his narrative, but in the version where he is concerned, he doesn’t behave rationally. (The most concerned version of Coletti’s narratives has him go outside unnecessarily when a strange dude is chasing someone- who may be armed, who may have friends- who may not appreciate Colletti’s interference in his chase.) The lack of concern for Shannan makes me think that the Oak Beach players had to distance themselves from any concern for Shannan, because acknowledging her fright would have meant facing up to their own part in causing it. If they did not feel at all responsible for her circumstances, it would have been easier to empathize with her, guilt-free.

Alex was the only one who expressed concern and had consistent stories. Who would have seen that coming?

Then, in addition to the behavior of Oak Beach, you have the police fail to investigate in a way that appears serious- and refuse to release the 911 calls- at least Shannan’s if Colletti, Brennan, and any other callers, if they exist, have a privacy concern? At least Shannan’s own voice if the police are embarrassed by their end of the conversation? Because of an “active investigation” into a “tragic misadventure?” So many of the publicly conflicting accounts are either known by the police or could be, with a more rigorous investigation. How did Pak and Brewer meet each other/when were they in contact with one another? Was there a trip to CVS? What did the CCTV at the gate pick up? What times were any outgoing calls to Shannan from Pak? What time were in coming calls? Were any answered? And what happened on Shannan’s 911 call? For real, not for a letter to the editor.

There is simply no way that Shannan died of exposure. It is not the simplest explanation-it is the most absurd explanation.

As said above by Sleuth Noob and others, the only possibility is that someone got to her and killed her. Perhaps by accident- such as a dosage mistake or forced-used mistake, or on purpose. If it were an accident, word would have to have gotten to Coletti very quickly. Or, the accident preceded killing her on purpose.

One of my theories for how Shannan got to where she was found was that Pak brought her there dead on his way home- although I really don’t have a favored theory for who killed her or if it was an accident. .

I wonder which way the police would have come? It is possible that their route would be known to someone who shared this info with Pak. Then she could have been strapped into the passenger seat of car. He could have been on OBP while the police were chatting with Coletti. As skinny as she was, and given all the alleged running she was doing-at least when she wasn’t stumbling- she could have already been stiffening into a sitting position, and Pak could have put her in the marsh that very morning. I wonder if the bush she was supposedly leaning on would realistically support a person still alive, but dying of exposure.

She could have been put into Pak’s car, and by the time he went to dump her, she could have been in partial rigor. (Lots of lactic acid, little body fat.) After sitting her dead body against a bush, he could have taken either of the bridges- forgetting the highway names and too lazy to find them- back to the main L. I. Island and head back home.

If Shannan were put there that morning, Pak is the best theory to me, since the police did not see him immediately after, with mud, etc. There are some reasons to believe her belongings made it to Hack’s back yard well after Shannan made it to her location. And there are some reasons, such as that it is a dryer route and more direct, to think that Shannan got there via the highway. But there is no particular reason to think she was already dumped before the sun was high on May 1st. I’m just speculating.

MOO.
 
I certainly wasn’t meaning to imply there isn’t more to learn and possibly someone else involved. My point was that her death is not connected to the GB4 nor the Manorville cases. Three separate situations.
No question the police are covering up and there is corruption. No question there are also a strange cast of characters. I see the behavior of the neighborhood as how people act when they don’t want to get involved in something.
Your theory on Pak could be spot on.
 
Regarding how Shannan Gilbert left Peter Hackett's house I believe Michael Pak is lying, and that he left with Shannan, panicked when she became unresponsive due to the medical treatment by Peter Hackett, then dumped her body in the marsh. I think Peter Hackett's initial actions and statements were closer to the truth, because they were done and said before Peter Hackett became fully aware of what happened to Shannan.

I don’t know what happened to her, and whoever does is involved in criminal behavior, cover up, or has chosen not to speak up after learning things from someone involved. They are only not a criminal because they have been asked no questions and told no lies.

In other words, only the guilty, unethical secret keepers, and the dead know what really happened.

White Rabbit can’t evaluate who knew what happened to Shannan first. This forum exists because it is unknown to us.

However, his point is well taken that it would be interesting to compare a timeline of narratives to a timeline of released information.

So for that, I “liked” his post.
 
I certainly wasn’t meaning to imply there isn’t more to learn and possibly someone else involved. My point was that her death is not connected to the GB4 nor the Manorville cases. Three separate situations.
No question the police are covering up and there is corruption. No question there are also a strange cast of characters. I see the behavior of the neighborhood as how people act when they don’t want to get involved in something.
Your theory on Pak could be spot on.

The reason I think there is a connection to the GB4 and possibly the Manorville cases is because of the level of commitment the Oak Beach residents and the SCPD seem to have to not solve Shannan’s case. To me, that suggests organized activity. I don’t see what it would be about Shannan that would cause such a cohesive resistance to investigation.
 
The reason I think there is a connection to the GB4 and possibly the Manorville cases is because of the level of commitment the Oak Beach residents and the SCPD seem to have to not solve Shannan’s case. To me, that suggests organized activity. I don’t see what it would be about Shannan that would cause such a cohesive resistance to investigation.
because she is the only one who fought and got almost away...the others never had a chance...imo....its pretty easy for only one man to overpower a woman...we know at least 2 men were there with her as fact. so for the other girls, and really shannan, too, god only knows what they endured. shannan actually got on the phone and her mother actually pressured the investigation. if not for mari, who knows...i bet none of these girls would have been found.
 
She could have been put into Pak’s car, and by the time he went to dump her, she could have been in partial rigor. (Lots of lactic acid, little body fat.) After sitting her dead body against a bush, he could have taken either of the bridges- forgetting the highway names and too lazy to find them- back to the main L. I. Island and head back home.

Rigor mortis--very good point! The "pose" her body was in when it was found, at least according to data we can find, never seemed to make much sense to me. Not for exposure, not for drowning, and being in a swampy area separated from her clothes and other items the way she was just didn't make sense, either. Do you happen to know offhand if it was reeds, or an actual bush she was leaning against? I can't remember. Just taking into account, if we know, the resistance of the material she was "leaning" against.
 
I have read someone else suggest that perhaps she recognized him...maybe he had been at the party earlier? I don't think his story is 100% true. I think he was covering up. After watching an interview with him where he is chuckling when talking about dead girls, and discovering more an more about the residents in the community, I stopped trusting him.

I think many are putting too much weight into the fact that Shannan, ended up at Coletti's house.
Put your self in Shannan's position. It is 5:00AM or so in the morning. You are running, looking for help. A number of houses have no interior lights on. Up ahead you see a house with lights on.(The Coletti's were early risers that morning as they were planning a day trip.) It is only logical and sensible to go to the house with lights on. What would you have done?
 
I think many are putting too much weight into the fact that Shannan, ended up at Coletti's house.
Put your self in Shannan's position. It is 5:00AM or so in the morning. You are running, looking for help. A number of houses have no interior lights on. Up ahead you see a house with lights on.(The Coletti's were early risers that morning as they were planning a day trip.) It is only logical and sensible to go to the house with lights on. What would you have done?
I was thinking same about the lights. And sounds logical that she would run there for help. the question remains why, then, would she run FROM there? I don't hear too many requests to hear his 911 call, but I think that would answer some questions, too.
 
I was thinking same about the lights. And sounds logical that she would run there for help. the question remains why, then, would she run FROM there? I don't hear too many requests to hear his 911 call, but I think that would answer some questions, too.

Absolutely hearing SG's 911 call is crucial to understanding what went on that night.
Regarding Shannan running from Coletti's house, if she was standing on Coletti's porch, fully visible with the porch light on, while Coletti was inside calling 911, she would have seen Pak drive up and see her. She now has a choice. Continue standing on the porch and wait for Pak to come get her (Remember she was running from Pak.) or does she continue running and hiding in fear of Pak? What would you have done?
 
I think, as PillowofWinds said, the information in Coletti's call should have been--or should be--looked at, as every bit of evidence in this case is important, IMO. Even if it was a short phone call, can anything be picked up in the background--voice/s, and identified? Most importantly, as far as I'm concerned, because it's toward the end of events that night/morning.

And, I agree with Windsor in that--if I was in Shannan's shoes, and I was running to try and get help/witnesses/safety (I can only say that's what I'd be doing), if I had Pak trailing me, and then Coletti on the phone, would I barge into Coletti's house and beg for safety/protection? Not likely...I'd try to keep hiding. Or find a woman's house who would let me in, after the night I had. That's just me.
 
Absolutely hearing SG's 911 call is crucial to understanding what went on that night.
Regarding Shannan running from Coletti's house, if she was standing on Coletti's porch, fully visible with the porch light on, while Coletti was inside calling 911, she would have seen Pak drive up and see her. She now has a choice. Continue standing on the porch and wait for Pak to come get her (Remember she was running from Pak.) or does she continue running and hiding in fear of Pak? What would you have done?
it's hard to say what you would do in a situation like that until you are in it. I'm sure I would have been screaming at the top of my lungs if I saw them coming after me. I have read that she was INSIDE at the Coletti's. So why go into his house in the the first place if you are just going to run outside where Pak was? I wonder if it was only Pak she was running from because it could have been more than one or two people. So many unknowns. And too many sketchy characters to know who and what to believe.
 
it's hard to say what you would do in a situation like that until you are in it. I'm sure I would have been screaming at the top of my lungs if I saw them coming after me. I have read that she was INSIDE at the Coletti's. So why go into his house in the the first place if you are just going to run outside where Pak was? I wonder if it was only Pak she was running from because it could have been more than one or two people. So many unknowns. And too many sketchy characters to know who and what to believe.

Yep, a lot of unknowns, as you said, too many.

And conflicts in information...as you said, in some reports, it was said she was inside Coletti's home; other information says she never went inside at all. I tend to stick with the story that she never was inside his house, that's just me.

So, in my thinking, his 911 call would help maybe sort a little of that out, definitely.
 
As the SCPD has taken the stance of 'nothing criminal happened' and the SCPD has not and will not release any information to anybody, regarding the fact supposedly nothing happened at Oak Beach that night.

The SCPD defends this approach, with the "on going investigation" excuse.
The only evidence shared over the years by the SCPD, has been a belt with the letters H; M.
Maybe in a few years they will show us a shoelace or a piece of burlap and ask for the public's help in arresting the LISK.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but unless the politicians get involved, none of our questions will be answered.
 
I suggest each local sleuthers contact their elected representatives, and express your frustrations regarding the Oak Beach and LISK investigations.
Ask the representative to actively get involved.
 

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