SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

Status
Not open for further replies.

dog.gone.cute

Kyron Horman - Missing Since 6-4-10
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
15,653
Reaction score
1,945
So right.

This is why I agree with Wendy Murphy,,,,,,,that s e x/p o r n was the determining factor in the non-verdict,,,,,,,,not the age of the jurors.

I just can't see jurors of my generation (age 61) feeling sorry for a smart-mouth little snark. We were raised to respect our elders.


:seeya: I'm glad you mentioned what Wendy Murphy said ... and JMO, but I agreed with her comment about that ...

Right after the non-verdict came down, IIRC it was JVM who had Wendy on her show, and a portion Wendy's comments about the "sex" being the factor had to be "bleeped out" ...

:waitasec: I sure would like to know what Wendy really said that got the "bleep" !

:moo:
 

InALandFarFarAway

Lah di freakin' dah
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
0
Divots.
That’s what changed my mind about the death penalty. I watched this trial from beginning to end and I missed the divot issue the first go round. I think it was because as all of you, I was on overload or I may have even stopped listening by the time Dr. Horn got to the divots.

Or maybe because at the beginning of the trial when he first testified about them, it was embedded in so much horror that over time, throughout the trial it began to fade into something manageable.

During the penalty phase, I had to go back and find everything. I had to read it all then listen to Dr. Horn’s testimony again so I’d know exactly what disturbed me for so long. I think just after the penalty phase, I took a weekend off to just think about that.

Even the first part of his testimony way back in January or February, there was sadness in the matter-of-fact way that he described how he came to examine Travis Victor Alexander.

Juan Martinez: And drawing your attention back to June of 2008, did you have occasion to conduct a medical examination on the body of Travis Alexander?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes.

Juan Martinez: With regard to an examination of an individual such as this, what are the first steps that are taken?

Dr. Kevin Horn: The body is received under seal. It’s in a sealed body bag with a number that’s unique to that case. That seal is broken in my presence, the bag is opened, and then we examine the outside of the body, collecting evidence, performing photographs, and then we move on to an external examination, documenting injuries, and then an internal examination or an autopsy.


To the first mention of the divots that we all blocked out for sanity’s sake:

Juan Martinez: Taking a look at Exhibit 198, what are we looking at there?

Dr. Kevin Horn: What you actually see here are the edges, it’s only one portion of those incised wounds we saw. There was some force applied that was sufficient to cause a divot in the skull bone. So this is actually after the skull— the scalp has been reflected away from the skull, and what you’re seeing here is actually a divot in the center of the skull. And then over on the left side you see another one, and there’s hemorrhage around those. So the bone was actually sort of chipped away by the end of the implement there.


His penalty phase testimony wasn’t anything he hadn’t already outlined in his direct. The chilling matter-of-factness was still front and center but he was less clinical this time around, revealing more detail and confirming beyond all doubt that Travis was alive through 98% of it and that he suffered unimaginable pain and terror.

Juan Martinez: What is it on the body that causes it to experience pain?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Well, it would be largely due to nerve endings or severing of nerves in the body.

Juan Martinez: What are we looking at here?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Several stab or incised shallow sharp-force injuries at the torso.

Juan Martinez: Is one of those the one that actually pierced the heart or not?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes, as the blood began to leak out of that vessel and the heart began to fail, he probably experienced shortness of breath and also pain to the area, itself. As the heart is starved for oxygen in a heart attack, that pain is similar. It's the same nerve endings stimulated. Multiple stab wounds to Mr. Alexander's upper back. They both go to the level of the skull and actually impact the skull. Triangular portions of the skull gouged out by the end of the knife.

Juan Martinez: What is a defensive wound?

Dr. Kevin Horn: In the setting of the stabbing, it's the individual struggling, attempting to grab the knife or hold the knife or fend off blows with the knife. Several attempts to cut the throat in the same area.

Juan Martinez: What part of the throat did it go through?

Dr. Kevin Horn: It goes through the tissues in the front of the throat, the stap muscles, the airway, and also the major vessels on -- I believe it's the right side of the throat, the jugular vein and the carotid artery.

Juan Martinez: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the heart?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes.

Juan Martinez: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the back of the head?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes.

Juan Martinez: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the back?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes.

Juan Martinez: There are three wounds that were fatal, correct?

Dr. Kevin Horn: Yes.

Juan Martinez: Which three are those?

Dr. Kevin Horn: The stab wound to the heart would have been fatal in and of itself, I believe. The cut to the throat with the vessels severed would have been fatal in and of itself. And the gunshot wound taken in isolation would have been fatal. In seconds, he would collapse and become unresponsive.

I always told myself when there are murders that the victim was instantly knocked out or the adrenaline racing through their bodies knocked any fear or terror out of their systems or it just happened so quickly, the victim never knew what hit him/her, thus feeling no pain. Call me naïve but this is what I always believed. Ok, it’s what I always wanted to believe because there was nothing to convince me otherwise.

It now makes me wonder if Rachel was awake and aware when the AHMF entered their bedroom with the gun. Did she knew she was about to die? Did she try to convince him to put the gun down? Did she squeeze Lillian tightly to her chest and beg for him to stop? I convinced myself from the beginning that Rachel was asleep, never saw it coming and never knew she was married to an evil diabolical murdering .

After reading these transcripts, I now know better. I’ve never read Rachel’s or Lillian’s autopsy reports. And I never will.

For CMja to see that what she was doing was causing unbearable agony and torture but continued because it only fueled her rage and satisfaction makes us all dizzy.

The realization that she didn’t care about the people who would find his battered, mutilated and broken body exposed in a freaking shower stall sucks the air out of any room I’m in and makes my head swim. And CMja thinking somehow that her dumb a$$ tracings and recycling and offensive t-shirts and willingness to teach people to read in any way helps outweigh the carnage she callously left behind in that Mesa bathroom is proof positive she has no value to offer civilized society.

So thanks so much Jodi Ann Arias for removing the last shred of a shield called “HOPE” that our friends, family members, loved ones never suffered.

I’ll be ok with LWOP but … issuing a death warrant … walking her to the death chamber … that is what she deserves. My feelings based only on my own experiences.
 

Dum-Dum Sucker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
3,010
:seeya: I'm glad you mentioned what Wendy Murphy said ... and JMO, but I agreed with her comment about that ...

Right after the non-verdict came down, IIRC it was JVM who had Wendy on her show, and a portion Wendy's comments about the "sex" being the factor had to be "bleeped out" ...

:waitasec: I sure would like to know what Wendy really said that got the "bleep" !

:moo:

:facepalm: Me too!! I wonder if it's on the transcript, hahaha!!
 

pip

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
2,332
Reaction score
7
It is too bad that Travis didn't persist in the attempted reporting of his tires being slashed to LE. I am sure he would have mentioned JA's name. It could have made the difference had LE had a little chat with her. She would know they were on to her and perhaps it wouldn't have progressed to murder.

It's also too bad that Travis only told his friends that if he ended up dead it would be Jodi... had he reported her to LE for harassing and stalking him they would also be on to her pre-murder.

Men just do not report abuse often. Sad.

She had every angry word he dished on her coming to her. He had had enough. Was it abusive? ABSOLUTELY NOT. He finally blew, as any human would do at that point.
JA was the only abuser in the relationship.
The sex was mutually agreed to. So she can't claim emotional abuse on that either.
Just because she didn't get him to commit to her does not make him abusive.
 

kkdj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
9,986
Reaction score
64,142
:seeya: I'm glad you mentioned what Wendy Murphy said ... and JMO, but I agreed with her comment about that ...

Right after the non-verdict came down, IIRC it was JVM who had Wendy on her show, and a portion Wendy's comments about the "sex" being the factor had to be "bleeped out" ...

:waitasec: I sure would like to know what Wendy really said that got the "bleep" !

:moo:

I get a kick out of Wendy!
 

Maryann123

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
1,523
Reaction score
1
I don't think I have W'8. My problem is more about the tiny keyboard, I think. Do you plug in a real keyboard?



Sorry, I didn't read very carefully! I was talking about my computer. I have a tablet, and I do have a keyboard and stand (all in one) for that. It's a little case that protects it too. I got it on Amazon for about $10 and it's been awesome. I couldn't hit anything right on the built in keyboard. I tried to enlarge the page and do it, but then it was too big to see the whole page. Goggle (your device) and compatible keyboard, and it will show you the brands that will work for you. I went with an off brand, but it came with different adapters so it would work with several different ones.
 

thefragile7393

Chronically sleep deprived
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
4,195
Reaction score
524
Me new work shoes

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 

Attachments

  • uploadfromtaptalk1369844069408.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1369844069408.jpg
    55.2 KB · Views: 50

TotallyObsessed

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
6,096
Reaction score
1
Just saw this on Twitter

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 2m
Exclusive Today! Live twinterview with @tarakelley320 the juror that asked "Why should we believe you now?" Don't miss it! 2pm PDT

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial 2m
We have setup the WAT courtroom where you can chat along with other viewers and also watch the tweets below. http://wildabouttrial.com/wat-courtroom.html …
 

lauraoh

Active Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
378
Reaction score
39
So right.

This is why I agree with Wendy Murphy,,,,,,,that s e x/p o r n was the determining factor in the non-verdict,,,,,,,,not the age of the jurors.

I just can't see jurors of my generation (age 61) feeling sorry for a smart-mouth little snark. We were raised to respect our elders.

Agree. There are SOME men of every age who simply can't believe that a "good" girl will willingly do most of the s e x u a l things CKJA did and that a guy has to be pushing her, nagging her, or forcing her.
 

Numbers

New Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
897
Reaction score
0
How does anyone use these (mod snipped) notepad thingies to navigate a forum and type replies?!!

Scrolling is difficult, keeping track of pages is near impossible, and typing is an absolute nightmare...one finger, hitting wrong keys, lines go everywhere, accidentally erasing whole paragraphs...

Any suggestions for how to make it easier??

---I have a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1

I invested in a stylus. Those tablets aren't made for anyone with fingernails or large fingers. The stylus is more on-target than I could otherwise hope to be. $13 at Wally World, but you can get them almost anywhere.

I also use it on my phone which is really teeny.
 

a/k/a me

New Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
137
Reaction score
0
Well, unlike the physical abuse claims, and the pedophilia claims which had not one shred of evidence to support them, the verbal and emotional abuse accusations did have evidence which could have been interpreted as abuse when taken by themselves. Those weren't exactly love letters that he wrote and if that was all I saw I could see how some would see them as abusive.

BBM
I do not understand this part at all!! Here where I am, the younger generation talks to each other this way, and worse...all the time. I find it unsettling but not at all uncommon. Every twenty something would be classified as abusive, according to this definition.
 

gauntlet

Inactive
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
2,281
Reaction score
1
How does anyone use these (mod snipped) notepad thingies to navigate a forum and type replies?!!

Scrolling is difficult, keeping track of pages is near impossible, and typing is an absolute nightmare...one finger, hitting wrong keys, lines go everywhere, accidentally erasing whole paragraphs...

Any suggestions for how to make it easier??

---I have a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1

Try using Tapatalk - it's an app?
 

Jane Jetson

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
619
Reaction score
0
I don't think a lot of people understand that correlation does not equal causation.

There would have to be studies with participants numbering in the thousands to determine if older people were swayed one way or the other towards life or death penalty, regardless of the case, the facts or anything but their age.

i'm finding it kind of offensive that the jurors who voted for life are given no credit for thinking, "they just voted that way because they were old." or "they didn't listen."

Just because someone doesn't see things your way doesn't mean they didn't listen. That's such an arrogant and distasteful way of thinking,

BBM: I think you could get away with an "n" (number of people in the study) in the hundreds, and get a reliable and valid result. :wink: That would be an interesting study, and not to hard to do using hypotheticals.
 

Kensie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
8,630
Reaction score
14,376
BBM
I do not understand this part at all!! Here where I am, the younger generation talks to each other this way, and worse...all the time. I find it unsettling but not at all uncommon. Every twenty something would be classified as abusive, according to this definition.

I agree with you a/k/a me. I am not in my twenties but I deal with those type of abuses every single day. I don't like it but 'sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words will never harm me'. I am still shock that anyone thought those few texts were abusive.
 

InALandFarFarAway

Lah di freakin' dah
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
0
In that case, we can define all verbal abuse out of existence, by simply calling it "the truth." In fact, that's one of the tools of verbal abusers.

Well, I think there's a big difference between "You've denied me my right to basic human privacy" ... "You cry only for yourself" ... "you've lied to me, scammed me" ... "I asked you for proof and you can't be bothered to get off your (bum) and get it" ... (after a recitation of stalking and threatening behavior: ) "you are a sociopath" ... "you're the worst thing that ever happened to me"

and "you're a stupid no good waste of oxygen who will never amount to anything" or something of that ilk.

Responding in anger to point specific actions that address the behavior that offended is not abusive, IMO. Arbitrary insults, criticisms and ugly words crafted and delivered with the sole purpose of demeaning, demoralizing, controlling, hurting another person because (generic) you feel insecure or unworthy or you're just a sucky person is absolutely abuse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top