SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

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I still don't get this jury. If unanimous 1st degree, and unanimous on aggravating, then the discussion during deliberations should have only been did the mitigators outweigh the aggravating factors, right? They should not have asked themselves "am I able to sentence her to death?" It was more of a q of: did the mitigating factors outweigh the crime? I thought.

One of JA's supposed mitigators was abuse and according to the jurors on HLN tonight, some jurors thought JA was abused- both by Travis ( re:text message) and childhood. :banghead:

I'm going to bed. The weather is bad here tonight and my internet keeps going in and out- very :stormingmad:.

Goodnight everyone- have fun.
 
Sounds like the jury didn't know the penalty phase would end in a mistrial if not unanimous. Maybe the judge or the state should/could have made that more clear. Because it seemed like they just deliberated and said they'd agree to disagree. no urgency to talk it all the way through if they thought the judge would impose the sentence...
 
Yes, I agree with you about the age of the jurors and the sex talk and that one GD text was considered abuse to them. :banghead:
I don't see how JM can keep older people off the next jury. He may have to
step up his game somehow. I don't know how; I think he was magnificent, myself, and made a lot of sense to me (but, I am a "mere mortal"- :floorlaugh:).

I know right???? One text out of what 80,000 between the two???? So frustrating.

There can be ways of spreading out the age of the jurors. And I think it needs to be more balanced in order to get a verdict this time around.

Frankly I think Juan needs to hammer home the fact that one text was one of very very very few texts that Travis lost his temper. And Juan NEEDS to give context of what Travis was being put through by Jodi before he sent that May 26th text message. It's absolutely key. The next jury needs to understand how Jodi had gotten out of hand with her stalking behavior. Travis was simply too naive and too unsophisticated in dealing with romantic relationships to have the knowledge base to get rid of psycho Jodi.
 
I still don't get this jury. If unanimous 1st degree, and unanimous on aggravating, then the discussion during deliberations should have only been did the mitigators outweigh the aggravating factors, right? They should not have asked themselves "am I able to sentence her to death?" It was more of a q of: did the mitigating factors outweigh the crime? I thought.

You are correct. And in 4 jurors minds they believed although the crime was especially cruel Jodi suffered emotional, verbal, and psychological abuse by Travis. And due to that abuse they believed warranted saving her life. To those 4 that was enough. That's not to say that the rest of them believed the abuse claims or that the rest of America did but those 4 did and their votes were what mattered.
 
I still don't get this jury. If unanimous 1st degree, and unanimous on aggravating, then the discussion during deliberations should have only been did the mitigators outweigh the aggravating factors, right? They should not have asked themselves "am I able to sentence her to death?" It was more of a q of: did the mitigating factors outweigh the crime? I thought.

You are right. The mitigators didn't outweigh the cruelness of the crime. At least 8 jurors understood and got it right...Me thinks there were four jurors that were extremely liberal and didn't really believe in the death penalty unless they were another Manson and also not too intelligent to have the ability to "weigh" it out...

Edit: JMO
 
For all the squirrel fans :)

GoogleFacts ‏@GoogleFacts

It's estimated that millions of trees worldwide are accidentally planted by squirrels who bury nuts & then forget where they hid them.

https://twitter.com/GoogleFacts
 
We must have heard different things. I heard her say that the four that voted for death believed that CMA was "abused" verbally and by text. I don't recall her ever saying that the age of the juror had anything to do with it. Can you provide a link to substantiate that? JMO

Edit: This is another reason why I think we need a new thread showing all the interviews and discuss separately.

My mistake I merged my comments between two different jurors.

Juror No. 6 said that the 4 voted for life because they believed that she was emotionally, verbally, and psychologically abused. Juror No. 18 (who was the foreman) also said this as well. And stated that he believed "firmly" (his exact word) that Jodi had been abused by "him" (also his exact word).

Juror No. 10- said via JVM show that she knew how the jury voted and that it wasn't across gender lines but rather along age lines. She believed the older jurors had a different take on the abuse claims. IMO I believe the saturation of all the sex talk is what led them to believe that Travis abused Jodi. It was a risk for the defense to take and it apparently paid off for them.
 
For all the squirrel fans :)

GoogleFacts ‏@GoogleFacts

It's estimated that millions of trees worldwide are accidentally planted by squirrels who bury nuts & then forget where they hid them.

https://twitter.com/GoogleFacts

I know this to be fact. We have live oaks here - our squirrels planted several live oaks in the middle of my shrubbery and flower beds...I love our squirrels too, don't get me wrong, now. But I want it all -- I want the squirrels to be happy and I want to be able to provide food for all of our birds, too.....
 
Oh, and JA tweet has account has retweeted a supporter who says JA did show plenty of remorse... it's still tweeting, or rather her friends are for her...
 
Jenny annoys the crap out of me. She interrupts EVERYONE. And she isn't polite about it. She just jumps right in. There should be more Mark and way less Jenny.

I agree!

Pretty sure she's the girl that did, Whatever Martha, with Martha Stewart's daughter. Loved that show, and really enjoyed her on there. Maybe it's because she's skinny now! LOL:floorlaugh:
 
Sounds like the jury didn't know the penalty phase would end in a mistrial if not unanimous. Maybe the judge or the state should/could have made that more clear. Because it seemed like they just deliberated and said they'd agree to disagree. no urgency to talk it all the way through if they thought the judge would impose the sentence...

I think those last couple days of court turned into a total cluster... They lost momentum over cmja's impact witnesses, her trip to the loony bin, the DT trying to quit for the umpteenth time, then her crazy allocution without a cross by Juan, ban lifted for more tv interviews. It was all a confusing mess. I'm still wondering how the DT pulled off getting the last word!

Juan did a fabulous job explaining the instructions for the m1 charges, I think the circus wore everyone out.
 
All caught up and going through court withdrawal. I refuse to get sucked into Zimmerman so I think I might join a gym and try to lose the 15lbs I gained watching JA lol

I'm not going to get sucked into that either, as I have a hinky meter that says he's gonna walk.

Caryn Kelley was found not guilty today of Manslaughter (surprise)! That lady was a whack-a-doodle (he shot himself, no, I shot him, no it was a suicide). Don't know why I bothered.

The 2nd JA phase will end up hung, and the judge will give her LWP.

Yep, I'm being a pessimist, but can ya blame me! I don't even think a jury will convict Andrea Sniderman.

ALL MOO

Mel
 
You are right. The mitigators didn't outweigh the cruelness of the crime. At least 8 jurors understood and got it right...Me thinks there were four jurors that were extremely liberal and didn't really believe in the death penalty unless they were another Manson and also not too intelligent to have the ability to "weigh" it out...

Edit: JMO

I don't think liberal views had anything to do with it. In fact I think it was just the opposite. I'm as liberal as they come. I'm Southern California liberal (and THAT'S LIBERAL) and I firmly believed that the appropriate sentence was death. And had I been on the jury that would have been my vote.

However, what I believe influenced the sentence was very conservative jurors who did not appreciate Travis calling Jodi names and engaging in very graphic sexual talk and play with Jodi. THAT is what I think saved her life. Had the roles been reversed and Travis had done this to Jodi I'm sure those same 4 jurors would have voted for the DP for Travis. To some degree I think the double standard of crime and gender played a role. Some just couldn't sentence to death a petite frail attractive woman. Especially if they believed Jodi was being used and abused by a male, even if that male was the victim in this case.
 
Sounds like the jury didn't know the penalty phase would end in a mistrial if not unanimous. Maybe the judge or the state should/could have made that more clear. Because it seemed like they just deliberated and said they'd agree to disagree. no urgency to talk it all the way through if they thought the judge would impose the sentence...

Who knows - Maybe JM wanted to tell them but couldn't. Does anyone remember if JM made any motions as to juror instructions?
 
I know right???? One text out of what 80,000 between the two???? So frustrating.

There can be ways of spreading out the age of the jurors. And I think it needs to be more balanced in order to get a verdict this time around.

Frankly I think Juan needs to hammer home the fact that one text was one of very very very few texts that Travis lost his temper. And Juan NEEDS to give context of what Travis was being put through by Jodi before he sent that May 26th text message. It's absolutely key. The next jury needs to understand how Jodi had gotten out of hand with her stalking behavior. Travis was simply too naive and too unsophisticated in dealing with romantic relationships to have the knowledge base to get rid of psycho Jodi.

The bigger questions is how are they going to find an un-biased jury unless they move this to the UK? Everyone I know in San Diego knows about Arias. Can you imagine Arizona?

I know - let's move the penalty phase to Afghanistan (snark). They don't particularly care for women murderers and could give a flying flip about her Survivor t-shirt (compliments of Nike), or her book club, or her recycling program. None of which will be of any use in her world of 1.

JMHO.

Mel
 
I think those last couple days of court turned into a total cluster... They lost momentum over cmja's impact witnesses, her trip to the loony bin, the DT trying to quit for the umpteenth time, then her crazy allocution without a cross by Juan, ban lifted for more tv interviews. It was all a confusing mess. I'm still wondering how the DT pulled off getting the last word!

Juan did a fabulous job explaining the instructions for the m1 charges, I think the circus wore everyone out.

I believe the DT gets the last word in the penalty phase since it's their client's arse on the line...

I guess after the first jury q in the penalty deliberation phase, if the judge had stressed more the importance of a unanimous decision, they could have spent more time and tried to get there.
 
I don't think liberal views had anything to do with it. In fact I think it was just the opposite. I'm as liberal as they come. I'm Southern California liberal (and THAT'S LIBERAL) and I firmly believed that the appropriate sentence was death. And had I been on the jury that would have been my vote.

However, what I believe influenced the sentence was very conservative jurors who did not appreciate Travis calling Jodi names and engaging in very graphic sexual talk and play with Jodi. THAT is what I think saved her life. Had the roles been reversed and Travis had done this to Jodi I'm sure those same 4 jurors would have voted for the DP for Travis. To some degree I think the double standard of crime and gender played a role. Some just couldn't sentence to death a petite frail attractive woman to death. Especially if they believed Jodi was being used and abused by a male, even if that male was the victim in this case.

Let's not go back and forth on Libs -vs- Conservatives but I believe what Ms. Schwartz said - Some of the jurors believed CMA was abused by Travis emotionally. Even if true, that does not mitigate what she did. JMO
 
I'm not going to get sucked into that either, as I have a hinky meter that says he's gonna walk.

Caryn Kelley was found not guilty today of Manslaughter (surprise)! That lady was a whack-a-doodle (he shot himself, no, I shot him, no it was a suicide). Don't know why I bothered.

The 2nd JA phase will end up hung, and the judge will give her LWP.

Yep, I'm being a pessimist, but can ya blame me! I don't even think a jury will convict Andrea Sniderman.

ALL MOO

Mel

Wow, I haven't followed that trial but have heard the gist of the story. I thought it just started, and she's already found not-guilty of manslaughter? What's JA phase?
 
What is the lady's name on dr d tonight that is part of behavior group ...she has long blond hair and said cmja is one of the most dangerous people she has ever seen? Thanks
 
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