Sidebar Discussion #5

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Aedrys

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Small correction:

Ashton, George, and Drane-Burdick played them like a Stradivarius.

Jose played them like a cheap fiddle.

Turns out they were cheap fiddles. No recognition of a concerto, but a deep kinship with some backwoods chicken screeching.

:floorlaugh: Ah, Numbers! So GREAT to see you!!!!
 

strawberry

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Wow, great article. She is spot on as usual! I honestly thought she would never talk about the case again, but apparently Casey has a way of making everyone talk!

Egg Tree also had a two sentence blog on her earlier this month. :floorlaugh:
 

tehcloser

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I still think the not guilty verdict was gonna be their payday. They just seriously under estimated the backlash and once they saw it decided that might not be the way to go.
 

suzihawk

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I still think the not guilty verdict was gonna be their payday. They just seriously under estimated the backlash and once they saw it decided that might not be the way to go.

I still think they never thought in a million years she would be acquited of all charges and that cashing in on how they avoided her getting the death penalty would lead to their fame and fortune.
 

tehcloser

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I still think they never thought in a million years she would be acquited of all charges and that cashing in on how they avoided her getting the death penalty would lead to their fame and fortune.

Sorry, I should have been clearer..I meant the jury. :innocent:
 

Adrienne37

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I just have a couple of quick questions this morning - are we ever going to understand and get over this verdict?
 

bayouland

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Small correction:

Ashton, George, and Drane-Burdick played them like a Stradivarius.

Jose played them like a cheap fiddle.

Turns out they were cheap fiddles. No recognition of a concerto, but a deep kinship with some backwoods chicken screeching.

:yourock:
 

jon_burrows

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I totally believe in Goverment transparency and to be fair the PT asked for a gag order. What is wrong is the DT fighting it and then wanting a change of venue.

ITA - Since the DT fought the gag order, I think they should have been prohibited from a change of venue. Something is seriously wrong with our system that allowed JB to go on every talk show that would have him for years then receive a change of venue.

IMO
 

Horace Finklestein

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I think one of the major problems with the prosecution case started long before this jury was seated. The fact that in order to find people who had no interest in current affairs and therefore had no knowledge of the extensive news coverage of the case in the years proceeding the jury selection, they had to choose from people who really don't care much about the world around them and therefore these people were completely lost and uninterested in most of the evidence that was presented to them. If this case didn't grab their attention in the news before, what would make anyone think it would grab their attention sitting in that courtroom? I also think some of them may have related to situations of abuse in their own lives and were tuned out and believed that OS lie from the get go.

In order for a jury to understand that evidence and to have been able to put everything together, it required a group of people with at least average intelligence and lots of common sense who could follow the dots and put the puzzle together. People who had some kind of an interest or knowledge in current affairs and the court system and who had perhaps at least followed other cases in the news might have stood a better chance of taking in the evidence and deliberating properly over everything that had been presented. It is well known that most people like this do anything they can to get out of jury duty. I'm sure there were many who did that in this case and are kicking themselves for it now.

This was a group of people who admittedly didn't care much for what was going on around them and lived in a bit of a bubble with themselves and perhaps their immediate circle being the only thing of importance to them. And getting back to that life and their circle of family/friends was probably pretty important to a good deal of them. Either that or some of them lied and had an agenda because of the death penalty on the table, or any number of other reasons...which is entirely possible as well. How ironic that one or more of them could have lied to get on this jury. And if anyone did have an agenda and they were the ones who took up the task of convincing everyone else that there was no case for murder because they needed certain evidence that wasn't presented to them in order to convict then the prosecution never stood a chance from day one.

Jeff Ashton did do a brilliant job in that courtroom but there were times when he could appear to be condescending to someone of average or below average intelligence. I have no idea if any of the jury members fit into this category but if there were I can see them getting their back up when he was "making mincemeat" for lack of a better expression with some of the real doozies that the defence team brought forward. The "plant lady", the "grief lady", the "pigs in a blanket" guy and the loopy old "crack the skull" medical examiner just to name a few. All of them took at least one zinger from JA's arsenal. To most of us at home watching, he was effectively making them look as ridiculous and uncredible as they were. To some members of that jury who may have sympathized with them he may have seemed condescending and disrespectful. For those who, for whatever reason, took to JB, JA would have looked condescending and disrespectful to him on a daily basis. :floorlaugh:

It's so hard to tell exactly what factors led to this disastrous outcome but I really think it started before the jury selection. Perhaps the sunshine law needs to be looked at. I live in Canada where we have publication bans to prevent any kind of jury pool tainting. While it certainly makes following a case not nearly as interesting, I think it's effective in making sure that the prosecution has a better jury pool to choose from.

MOO

I think having the sunshine laws helps to have an informed public. I'd much rather have people reading actual documents and LE interviews than hearing the media's now unnecessary opinion on these things. I think sunshine laws promote a more informed public. However, when the courts insist on placing people who have not read the actual documents on the jury...that's a problem imo.
 

Amster

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I just have a couple of quick questions this morning - are we ever going to understand and get over this verdict?

Nope....not me. Because I will never forget Caylee or "get over" her death.
 

jon_burrows

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I agree and I think there ought to be a law against an attorney coddling their client in court. I'm sure that if FCA were a man then the judge would have told the attorney to knock it off and keep their hands to themselves. Then there was the jacking her chair down to make her appear smaller. When she was in the room with the investigators before her arrest she was in an average sized chair and she looked quiet comfortable and her feet reached the floor. Then, they made her dress in clothing that I wouldn't wear and I'm 56. My Mother is eighty-two and she wears clothing similar to some of the clothing that they had FCA wear. All this is water under the bridge now. But I found DS's coddling of FCA really disturbing and sickening and by the look on DS's face she wasn't enjoying it. So much of it was disturbing. From the opening statement, to JB's snickering and eye rolling, to DS's coddling, to the A families games & lies. We all know the story, I could go on and on. Everyone involved has had so much chit flung in their faces by FCA, the A's, the DT. I'm sorry, I just realized that I got carried away...again. Would someone please hold FCA accountable for something in her life. Someone? Anyone?

I am thankful that my children love their children and treat them with the utmost respect.

BBM - Ashton asked Perry to make the DT knock it off. Perry refused. It is extremely unusual to have so much petting, hugging, and public displays during a trial. It's unheard of for a defendant to be able to testify with facial gestures, words, and body language without taking the stand to be cross examined. The sickening part is they were breaking Perry's courtroom decorum rules from day 1 of the trial. The only thing Perry had to do was enforce his own rule:

Item 12: counsel shall admonish all persons at council tables that gestures, facial expressions, audible comments, or the like as manifestations of approval or disapproval during the testimony of any witness or at any other time are absolutely prohibited.

IMO
 

lillygator

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But I digress....anyWHO....that civil lawsuit between the now possible suspect and Natalie Maines of The Dixie Chicks was something else. That deposition opened the door to all sorts of stuff.
IMO we can only hope one of these lawsuits agains Casey goes to the mat....AFTER her appeal time is up. WHAT FUN THAT WOULD BE!!!!!!
Sorry I'm hogging the thread all of a sudden...but I needed to unload for a second!
bbm...what is that about>? I haven't heard anything about this.

I just have a couple of quick questions this morning - are we ever going to understand and get over this verdict?
no
 

Spice

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ITA - Since the DT fought the gag order, I think they should have been prohibited from a change of venue. Something is seriously wrong with our system that allowed JB to go on every talk show that would have him for years then receive a change of venue.

IMO

I don't blame the system as much as the fact that media is so very different in this day and age. 24 hour news has affected so many things, and not for the better. It is NONSTOP and constant sensationalism instead of true reporting, it is not even really news anymore, it is entertainment.

When our system was developed 200 years ago, none of that was the reality. I look at it as a symptom of the times, that coupled with the sunshine law and Cindy's refusal to get her face out of every camera she saw, it was next to impossible for them to find a jury anywhere that hadn't been exposed to every single detail and minutia of this case. And no matter what my feelings are about her and her obvious guilt, she had the right to a fair trial, we all do.

jmo.
 

jon_burrows

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I agree. The whole thing where he was advertising for unpaid 24-hour assistants had me reeling. None of them went out and actually DID anything to find Caylee. They only tried to control, malign and impede the situation from their air conditioned home. Even more bizarre is that he found someone to stay with him through this fiasco.

BBM - They knew she was dead and did not want her body found. It's much harder to prosecute a case with no body and I'm sure the As knew that.

IMO
 

TotallyObsessed

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bbm...what is that about>? I haven't heard anything about this.


no

HI lillygator - yesterday I was on a rant and was comparing the West Memphis 3 case, etc. to this case. That statement had nothing to do with suspects in CAYLEE'S DEATH. We all know who did that.
 

jon_burrows

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I don't blame the system as much as the fact that media is so very different in this day and age. 24 hour news has affected so many things, and not for the better. It is NONSTOP and constant sensationalism instead of true reporting. When our system was developed 200 years ago, that was not the reality. I look at it as a symptom of the times, that coupled with the sunshine laws, it was next to impossible for them to find a jury anywhere that hadn't been exposed to every single detail and minutia of this case. And know matter what my feelings are about her and her obvious guilt, she had the right to a fair trial, we all do.

jmo.

I thought a gag order would have prevented the media from getting details about the evidence. :waitasec:

IMO
 

chakti

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I don't blame the system as much as the fact that media is so very different in this day and age. 24 hour news has affected so many things, and not for the better. It is NONSTOP and constant sensationalism instead of true reporting, it is not even really news anymore, it is entertainment.

When our system was developed 200 years ago, none of that was the reality. I look at it as a symptom of the times, that coupled with the sunshine law and Cindy's refusal to get her face out of every camera she saw, it was next to impossible for them to find a jury anywhere that hadn't been exposed to every single detail and minutia of this case. And no matter what my feelings are about her and her obvious guilt, she had the right to a fair trial, we all do.

jmo.

Yes but was this a fair trial ? A sleazy lawyer. A judge rushing things along to save money, bending over backwards to avoid appeals. A jury that just wanted to get home.
 

Spice

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I thought a gag order would have prevented the media from getting details about the evidence. :waitasec:

IMO

Judge Strickland, who denied the Prosecution's request for the gag order, did not believe that the media storm around Caylee's death would die down with a gag order in place.

He also mentions that the "Legal Standard" for issuing the gag order had not been met. In other words, whatever guideline and legal parameters that would allow him to warrant the gag order (I don't know what they are specifically regarding the sunshine laws) did not exist.

We don't know what the standards are that he had to follow though, but I guess there wasn't enough to legally warrant a gag order which would render the sunshine laws null and void. They must have very specific legal parameters to guarantee the government transparency that the sunshine laws provide.

Strickland also says this:

"The state attorney's office argued that the defense team, as well as the Anthony family's lust for the 'limelight,' may well sabotage the potential jury pool when this case is ultimately tried," the judge continued.

"While this argument has some appeal, it does not rise to the level of being a serious and imminent threat to the administration of justice. Further, this court is confident that even with a 'gag order' the publicity and media attention would continue unabated."

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-26/..._1_cindy-anthony-caylee-gag-order?_s=PM:CRIME

I guess that it was his opinion that no matter what, the media ***storm surrounding this case would continue unabated over the years and would just be an inescapable fact.

I'm all for government transparency, so I am torn on this one, this seems to be more about the sunshine laws and the intense media coverage that created a perfect storm. In other words, a state law and and out of control media are the factors here, not really the system as a whole.
 
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