Sievers Sidebar #2

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Just a perspective for those that are wondering about grand juries and timing in this case .... And are disappointed or concerned that there have been no grand jury indictments yet... ( which is required for first degree charges in the state of Florida)..

Another case I follow here, Savaas Savapoulos/family /housekeeper bludgeoning and murders case, http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291899 happened May 13th/14th last year. They quickly found Daron Wints DNA ( on the pizza he ate at the crime scene !) and arrested him on May 21st after they found him.

This was in the District of Columbia.. and every state ( and DC ) is different ... yet ...

It wasn't until this past Wednesday, almost 9 months later, that the grand jury came down with 20 counts against him.

It took a quite a while, in that they had much of the evidence from the very beginning as to WHO the person was that was present and participated in the crime.

:moo:
 
Thanks ATL, very important to remember and consider. Real life cases are NOT like TV! ��
 
Totally O/T but thinking of our Scout today after hearing Harper Lee has passed away at the age of 89.

Justice for Teresa and her loved ones!
 
I was about quote myself but it so quickly afterwards I don't think there is a need to .

Question for AZL or creepingskills ..the two attys following this case on the threads...

If they go directly to a grand jury indictment for another co conspirator, (or just straight up murder ) is it required they have a preliminary hearing initially for such and are required that they have to lay out all the evidence so that we the public can see it?

Or with a grand jury and all the secrecy... do we have to wait for trial if it is a grand jury indictment and LE doesn't have to disclose any any evidence or interviews etc? ( lol unless of course in Florida we have the Sunshine Law.??.. )

But with a grand jury indictment,even with sunshine laws, are we are not allowed to see that evidence from GJ as such in a comparable prelim if they were not arrested previously to the grand jury?

That might mean if somebody was *only only* indicted by the grand jury, we would have no idea what was said in the evidence before it went to trial?

If that has been done, is going to be done, that is so strategic! :moo:

Hope I'm not being too confusing. :eek:

ETA ..am I correct there has not been any conspiracy charges yet with CWW and JRR? :thinking: Why not if they were shown to travel together... is that not a conspiracy.. I need to look up the definition of conspiracy!
 
Heads-up! New Doc Dump on the way!

Also, some good news, regarding expenses. Changes that will help us offset the costs.

See my post here.
 
I was about quote myself but it so quickly afterwards I don't think there is a need to .

Question for AZL or creepingskills ..the two attys following this case on the threads...

If they go directly to a grand jury indictment for another co conspirator, (or just straight up murder ) is it required they have a preliminary hearing initially for such and are required that they have to lay out all the evidence so that we the public can see it?

Or with a grand jury and all the secrecy... do we have to wait for trial if it is a grand jury indictment and LE doesn't have to disclose any any evidence or interviews etc? ( lol unless of course in Florida we have the Sunshine Law.??.. )

But with a grand jury indictment,even with sunshine laws, are we are not allowed to see that evidence from GJ as such in a comparable prelim if they were not arrested previously to the grand jury?

That might mean if somebody was *only only* indicted by the grand jury, we would have no idea what was said in the evidence before it went to trial?

If that has been done, is going to be done, that is so strategic! :moo:

Hope I'm not being too confusing. :eek:

ETA ..am I correct there has not been any conspiracy charges yet with CWW and JRR? :thinking: Why not if they were shown to travel together... is that not a conspiracy.. I need to look up the definition of conspiracy!

OK...I'm not sure exactly what all your questions were :) but I will say this: whether there is a grand jury indictment or not, we will see all the evidence (except certain things like pics of dead bodies) through the Sunshine Laws long before trial. We won't see transcripts of the grand jury proceedings, of course.

There's no need for conspiracy charges when you can charge someone with Murder 1.
 
Note

If you guys have attempted to send me PMs and they're bouncing, I'm sorry! :iamashamed: My admin inbox holds 2,000 and it has been blowing up lately. Anyway, I am in the process of clearing them out, replying to some that got buried in the pile and I'm just now seeing for the first time. Give me a bit and I will make some space. And if I haven't responded to one you've sent, I apologize. Please know that I am just now seeing it. I'll get around to them all eventually. Thanks for your patience.
 
Beach, you work really hard. Thank you for all of your efforts!
 
Thanks for sharing that video. From what we know now, her opinion of TS is very similar to her interview with LE. Here she says that TS was living on the edge in her business, pushing the envelope, lived big, and died big.
Weren't those similar terms used in her opinion of TS, when interviewed by LE, but in regarding her personal/sexual life?

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I recall LS saying something similar to LE too Irish.

LS said..."she lived big, and UNFORTUNATELY, she died big"

I heard her say that back in July, and it still really bugs me today that she said "TS died big". Seriously? What on earth does she mean by that? I know there could be a slight language barrier here....not in this sentence though. (IMO)

TS did NOT "die big". She was brutally MURDERED by EVIL people and NOBODY deserves to die like that. (Again, IMO)
Rant over! Thanks to all you amazing sleuths here! :loveyou:

Justice for TS and her precious girls.
 
I recall LS saying something similar to LE too Irish.

LS said..."she lived big, and UNFORTUNATELY, she died big"

I heard her say that back in July, and it still really bugs me today that she said "TS died big". Seriously? What on earth does she mean by that? I know there could be a slight language barrier here....not in this sentence though. (IMO)

TS did NOT "die big". She was brutally MURDERED by EVIL people and NOBODY deserves to die like that. (Again, IMO)
Rant over! Thanks to all you amazing sleuths here! :loveyou:

Justice for TS and her precious girls.

To me, it meant that she did not die in her sleep or from a quick illness. It is huge. It is noticed.
 
We watched the DaVinci Code the other night and towards the end Sophie said this to Robert Langdon...

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

I thought it was beautiful. I had been at my sons IEP earlier in the day- he has Down syndrome and is THE sweetest guy. We've had good experiences (for the most part) throughout his school career- he's a junior in High School now.

Anyway, he went through a pretty significant bullying experience last week but we always try to look at these experiences as a teachable moment- sometimes young people just don't really get the consequences of their actions.

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

Anyway, I didn't want the girl punished with detention, I wanted her to spend one afternoon helping in my sons class so she would have empathy for these kids- see how hard they work, how hard they try and how sweet they are.

I was thinking of my son when the quote from the film struck me.

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

Later I realized how it can also apply to the people that defend or protect perpetrators. I thought about the people in CWW's life who have done this for him and continue to do this for him.

I think they deserve to be seen in this context- you are who you protect.

Unless they are children or young adults who are too young to know better.

Just a long winded way of saying what I think about this- I hope no one takes offense.

I believe justice has been held at bay for this man for much longer then it should have- a life or lives may have been saved had just 1 person come forward to tell everything they know or knew about what happened to Ronnie Bolin. For that my soul weeps deeply.

Because of Teresa's murder he may never be able to take the life of an innocent victim again.

That is at least some solace moving forward but not a whole lot.

I think people should think about THAT when they voice their defense, opinion or sympathy for the people who defend, lie or protect him.
 
Frigga, Thank you for your post above ^^^^. It is beautiful and shows what an intelligent, caring person you are.

Your choice of having the person involved in the incident with your son to spend time in the classroom is a brilliant idea. This is time she will always remember.
 
We watched the DaVinci Code the other night and towards the end Sophie said this to Robert Langdon...

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

I thought it was beautiful. I had been at my sons IEP earlier in the day- he has Down syndrome and is THE sweetest guy. We've had good experiences (for the most part) throughout his school career- he's a junior in High School now.

Anyway, he went through a pretty significant bullying experience last week but we always try to look at these experiences as a teachable moment- sometimes young people just don't really get the consequences of their actions.

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

Anyway, I didn't want the girl punished with detention, I wanted her to spend one afternoon helping in my sons class so she would have empathy for these kids- see how hard they work, how hard they try and how sweet they are.

I was thinking of my son when the quote from the film struck me.

"We are who we protect... who we stand up for."

Later I realized how it can also apply to the people that defend or protect perpetrators. I thought about the people in CWW's life who have done this for him and continue to do this for him.

I think they deserve to be seen in this context- you are who you protect.

Unless they are children or young adults who are too young to know better.

Just a long winded way of saying what I think about this- I hope no one takes offense.

I believe justice has been held at bay for this man for much longer then it should have- a life or lives may have been saved had just 1 person come forward to tell everything they know or knew about what happened to Ronnie Bolin. For that my soul weeps deeply.

Because of Teresa's murder he may never be able to take the life of an innocent victim again.

That is at least some solace moving forward but not a whole lot.

I think people should think about THAT when they voice their defense, opinion or sympathy for the people who defend, lie or protect him.

That is so incredibly sweet Frigga ❤️ Every encounter I have had with a person with downs syndrome has been so pleasant. You don't get to see those pure hearts too often and it is such a blessing.
 
Lovely and thoughtful comment, Frigga. I used to work in a high school where there were two classes of students who were (at that time) labeled "educable" and "trainable." In my free time, I would go in and teach one of the classed a little Spanish. They were so lovely to work with and so eager to learn. The appreciation and hugs I received warmed my heart. So were the "holas" and other phrases they used as they saw me in the halls.

At graduation time, I was proud to help a few of the more physically disabled to walk across the stage to get their diplomas. They were my proudest moments as their friend and teacher.
 
I recall LS saying something similar to LE too Irish.

LS said..."she lived big, and UNFORTUNATELY, she died big"

I heard her say that back in July, and it still really bugs me today that she said "TS died big". Seriously? What on earth does she mean by that? I know there could be a slight language barrier here....not in this sentence though. (IMO)

TS did NOT "die big". She was brutally MURDERED by EVIL people and NOBODY deserves to die like that. (Again, IMO)
Rant over! Thanks to all you amazing sleuths here! :loveyou:

Justice for TS and her precious girls.

I really don't like the phrase "she died big"....it really is an offensive & awkward way to say something. I wish she could've made her point in a better way because it almost implies that TS had it coming!

Anyone else get creeped out by "she died big" or is it just me?
 
I really don't like the phrase "she died big"....it really is an offensive & awkward way to say something. I wish she could've made her point in a better way because it almost implies that TS had it coming!

Anyone else get creeped out by "she died big" or is it just me?

As someone who spent some time around TS... the irony of the way she died was not lost on me.
The comment "she died big" was something people might be able to say much further down the road... when they had come to terms with her death in their grieving process and were looking back lovingly. It didn't comfort me or make me feel any better.
To me it felt like those comics who make jokes about people the same day or the day after they have died....and I just cringe and say to myself...too soon.
 
I really don't like the phrase "she died big"....it really is an offensive & awkward way to say something. I wish she could've made her point in a better way because it almost implies that TS had it coming!

Anyone else get creeped out by "she died big" or is it just me?

some people have attributed her choice of words to English not being her first language but that explanation doesn't sit well with me, and i have friends for whom English is not their first language
to me, the reality is that Dr. Sievers died tragically, no matter what language is being used
(not big, large, grand, or any other similar word)
jmo
 
some people have attributed her choice of words to English not being her first language but that explanation doesn't sit well with me, and i have friends for whom English is not their first language
to me, the reality is that Dr. Sievers died tragically, no matter what language is being used
(not big, large, grand, or any other similar word)

jmo

Excellent way to sum things up dmac55. There is no other way to properly describe her death - just tragic! And, so very sad!
 
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