Similar Crime Scenes

[Solace]

So you want to talk about John trying to make arrangements to go to Atlanta. Makes sense to me. His daughter was dead. The police were on the scene. He wanted to pull his family together and there were fewer of them to go to Atlanta than the number of people who would have had to fly from Atlanta to Boudler. Flying was a way of life for the Ramseys.

With regard to his legal counsel, I believe one of their friends who happened to be at the Stines (?) stepped in and offered to "handle" things for them. Perfectly acceptable - IMO - since everyone knows you shouldn't talk to LE w/o legal representation.

Lets see SnowQueen. JonBenet is found in the basement by John and Patsy, Within a few minutes, Patsy asks Jesus to raise her from the dead as he did Lazarus and then 20 minutes later they have taken control of themselves and John is on the phone. Well enough emotion, lets get the plane ready. That is about it SnowQueen.

Absolutely nothing wrong with those actions? You keep bringing up the fact that flying was a way of life. What has that got to do with the subject. Sounds like a John argument to me. Answer a different question in the same area.

You are assuming this person stepped in to handle things. You are believing John. Why are you not questioning if it is possible if John sought this lawyer out. His phone records have never been produced. So we do not know who John called that morning. You might ask some of these questions before you are so adamant that John did nothing wrong on this day.

 

[Solace]

Pw = pineapple wallpaper. And if you're really interested in what others are saying why not do a search on the forum. Just a suggestion.

Good idea Snowqueen. Start searching for those documentaries where Patsy is parading around the grave with her arms crossed over her chest staring at the grave like one of the statues in a cemetary.

 

[snowqueen]

Lets see SnowQueen. JonBenet is found in the basement by John and Patsy, Within a few minutes, Patsy asks Jesus to raise her from the dead as he did Lazarus and then 20 minutes later they have taken control of themselves and John is on the phone. Well enough emotion, lets get the plane ready. That is about it SnowQueen.

Absolutely nothing wrong with those actions? You keep bringing up the fact that flying was a way of life. What has that got to do with the subject. Sounds like a John argument to me. Answer a different question in the same area.

You are assuming this person stepped in to handle things. You are believing John. Why are you not questioning if it is possible if John sought this lawyer out. His phone records have never been produced. So we do not know who John called that morning. You might ask some of these questions before you are so adamant that John did nothing wrong on this day.

Oh, my goodness. Am I the only one just now learning that John & PATSY found JonBenet? :doh:

With regard to legal representation I think it was talked about in Perfect Murder/Perfect Town. I don't believe I learned that from John.

 

[Solace]

Oh, my goodness. Am I the only one just now learning that John & PATSY found JonBenet? :doh:

Thanks Snowqueen. Must have been a freudian slip, since they put her there to begin with, imo.

With regard to legal representation I think it was talked about in Perfect Murder/Perfect Town. I don't believe I learned that from John.

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I still ask what makes you think that that is the way it happened. Is it not possible that John called his lawyers very early that morning. It is more than possible. It is likely.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

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I still ask what makes you think that that is the way it happened. Is it not possible that John called his lawyers very early that morning. It is more than possible. It is likely.

Especially considering the extreme hold up with getting phone records, and how they were blank when they were obtained. I definitely think the Rs made some calls prior to calling 911 that day, and JR's word that friends suggested legal counsel isn't good enough for me. John Ramsey has every reason to lie, and has been caught doing so repeatedly.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Who is angrywolf? Is/Was s/he a poster here?

Right. Take your own advice and do a search of this forum to get some info on ANGRYWOLF, and why people might compare you to him.

 

[Veronica10]

Just been following this interesting discussion....

Snowqueen...no matter what you say, escorting a six year old to the morgue IS an act of love. If it were my daughter I would NEVER have allowed her to go ALONE. Especially after what had happened to her. JonBenet was abandoned. If I were her mother it would be the least I would do. After escorting her to the morgue I would have gotten myself to the police station to help find the monster that killed my baby. As the innocent mother of a murdered child, I would have seen the police as my advocates. I would have done everything the Ramsey's did not do.

Whether you are Ramsey supporter or not, their actions (and inactions) after the discovery of JB's body are inexplicable.

Snowqueen, do you have children? Just curious.

 

[snowqueen]

Especially considering the extreme hold up with getting phone records, and how they were blank when they were obtained. I definitely think the Rs made some calls prior to calling 911 that day, and JR's word that friends suggested legal counsel isn't good enough for me. John Ramsey has every reason to lie, and has been caught doing so repeatedly.

Hold up with getting phone records? All LE had to do was get a court order and go to the telephone company for those records.

If you wanted someone's power bill would you think that only they could provide the bill?

 

[snowqueen]

Just been following this interesting discussion....

Snowqueen...no matter what you say, escorting a six year old to the morgue IS an act of love. If it were my daughter I would NEVER have allowed her to go ALONE. Especially after what had happened to her. JonBenet was abandoned. If I were her mother it would be the least I would do. After escorting her to the morgue I would have gotten myself to the police station to help find the monster that killed my baby. As the innocent mother of a murdered child, I would have seen the police as my advocates. I would have done everything the Ramsey's did not do.

Whether you are Ramsey supporter or not, their actions (and inactions) after the discovery of JB's body are inexplicable.

Snowqueen, do you have children? Just curious.

Are you trying to say that you don't see any compassion in me? Well, you are wrong. But - IMO - judging the Ramseys because they did not go to the morgue is ridiculous because of the reasons I've stated. What were they going to do? I've never heard of any family going to the morgue to sit while an autospy (which did not being until 8:00 a.m. the next monring) was being performed.

And just as information, I stood and watched the ambulance pull away from the hospital with both my mother and my father after they passed away. And no, I did not follow them to the funeral home. What would have been the point? There was nothing I could do, and I had shown them all the love I could by being at their side as they quietly left this earth.

Yes, I have children. Any more questions?

 

[Veronica10]

Are you trying to say that you don't see any compassion in me? Well, you are wrong. But - IMO - judging the Ramseys because they did not go to the morgue is ridiculous because of the reasons I've stated. What were they going to do? I've never heard of any family going to the morgue to sit while an autospy (which did not being until 8:00 a.m. the next monring) was being performed.

And just as information, I stood and watched the ambulance pull away from the hospital with both my mother and my father after they passed away. And no, I did not follow them to the funeral home. What would have been the point? There was nothing I could do, and I had shown them all the love I could by being at their side as they quietly left this earth.

Yes, I have children. Any more questions?

Please do not be offended. NO, I am not saying you have no compassion. I think your defense of the Ramsey's is clouding your judgment on this one. A hospital and a grisly crime scene are different. As a parent I could not walk away as easily as the Ramsey's did. No offense to the loss of your parents..I have also lost a parent. But our parents are supposed to die before us...it is the natural order of things, even if that parent dies young. This was a small child.

If my daughter was brutally murdered, my last act of protection and love for her would be to guard and escort her 6 year old body.

 

[snowqueen]

Please do not be offended. NO, I am not saying you have no compassion. I think your defense of the Ramsey's is clouding your judgment on this one. A hospital and a grisly crime scene are different. As a parent I could not walk away as easily as the Ramsey's did. No offense to the loss of your parents..I have also lost a parent. But our parents are supposed to die before us...it is the natural order of things, even if that parent dies young. This was a small child.

If my daughter was brutally murdered, my last act of protection and love for her would be to guard and escort her 6 year old body.

No offense taken. But I think every individual may act differently in any given situation and I think many people are using the fact that they would have acted differently as a sign of the Ramseys' guilt.

 

[Solace]

Hold up with getting phone records? All LE had to do was get a court order and go to the telephone company for those records.

If you wanted someone's power bill would you think that only they could provide the bill?

So why do you think the police did not get the records Snowqueen. I am very interested in your answer.

 

[snowqueen]

So why do you think the police did not get the records Snowqueen. I am very interested in your answer.

I don't know that they didn't get the records.

 

[Solace]

No offense taken. But I think every individual may act differently in any given situation and I think many people are using the fact that they would have acted differently as a sign of the Ramseys' guilt.

It is hardly true that "every individual may act differently". Human beings are creatures of habit in all of its forms. MOST OF THE TIME, when a parent loses a child, especially as brutally as this, the parent loses it in some form or another. The Ramseys actions from the beginning begs the question - what more do they know. So that argument, people act differently, is old, used and abused. This is a child, a six year old child, who was sexually molested prior to the murder, strangled and her skull was split clear down the middle.

Just writing that last sentence and I could very easily see a parent killing themselves over something like this. So, for them to act as though they need to get out of town in 20 minutes is SUSPECT.

 

[Solace]

I don't know that they didn't get the records.

Steve Thomas, Lead Investigator, could not get the records. Why do you think that is?

 

[snowqueen]

Steve Thomas, Lead Investigator, could not get the records. Why do you think that is?

I'm really not sure, but there are some who might say because Alex Hunter would not approve the search warrants required to which I would say why did he go to Alex Hunter in the first place since search warrants are usually acquired from judges......at which point I would get no response.

What do you think?

 

[snowqueen]

It is hardly true that "every individual may act differently". Human beings are creatures of habit in all of its forms. MOST OF THE TIME, when a parent loses a child, especially as brutally as this, the parent loses it in some form or another. The Ramseys actions from the beginning begs the question - what more do they know. So that argument, people act differently, is old, used and abused. This is a child, a six year old child, who was sexually molested prior to the murder, strangled and her skull was split clear down the middle.

Just writing that last sentence and I could very easily see a parent killing themselves over something like this. So, for them to act as though they need to get out of town in 20 minutes is SUSPECT.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I'm really not sure, but there are some who might say because Alex Hunter would not approve the search warrants required to which I would say why did he go to Alex Hunter in the first place since search warrants are usually acquired from judges......at which point I would get no response.

What do you think?

Now I know exactly who you are because you've asked this same question over at CTV. I didn't have a reply for you then, and don't now, other than the JBR case wasn't being run by the books, and Hunter could control the investigation for the Rs much better if he was the one to go to for search warrants instead of a judge. It bears some looking up. Hopefully one of the people here may know why Thomas needed to go through Hunter to get warrants. He comments on it repeatedly in his book, pointing out that his superior officer okayed the requests for warrants, but Hunter wouldn't give them to him.

Now why didn't Hunter just sign off on the search warrants if he was the one in charge of issuing them?

 

[JMO8778]

No offense taken. But I think every individual may act differently in any given situation and I think many people are using the fact that they would have acted differently as a sign of the Ramseys' guilt.

there are certain behaviors detectives look for in a murder case..the R's behavior was extremely out-of -bounds for supposedly grieving parents..in fact,so out of bounds it raised red flags immediately! does that alone mean theyre guilty? no,but,added to the evidence,it certainly lends a good argument to it.

 

[snowqueen]

<snip>


Now why didn't Hunter just sign off on the search warrants if he was the one in charge of issuing them?

Here's a link on search warrants:

http://criminal.findlaw.com/articles/1493.html

I wish someone would find out why Steve Thomas thought he had to go to Alex Hunter to obtain a warrant or if he did, why?