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[MrRoboto]

Respectfully, I have to completely disagree about Bob Ruff. I listened to his original podcast on the case, and I must say, it was littered with inaccuracies that he would have to correct in the follow-up episodes. Bob has an agenda, and before he even began investigating the case, he had talked to DE and pretty much decided they were innocent from the jump -- which is fine, but he tried to pretend like he never had any bias in the case, which was completely false. He's a guy who strictly looks for questionable cases simply so he can act as this sort of "injustice warrior" fighting to correct it (Adnan Sayed, etc.), but the worst part of it is, he enters these cases and makes up his mind without ever really delving into them beforehand. With the WM3 case, he was learning as he went along -- so along the way, he got many things wrong; then essentially painted himself into a corner and had to double-down before investigating all aspects of the case (which he nowhere near did).

Also, his Oxygen special was completely pointless. Don't get me wrong: I support his effort to have any DNA tested. That said, his special included nothing new about the case at all. One would be better served to simply watch all the Paradise Lost docs -- they contain much more information. Ruff's special -- a lot of the time -- is simply footage taken from the PL docs anyway.

Couldn't have said it any better myself !!

 

[DHT1339]

Respectfully, I have to completely disagree about Bob Ruff. I listened to his original podcast on the case, and I must say, it was littered with inaccuracies that he would have to correct in the follow-up episodes. Bob has an agenda, and before he even began investigating the case, he had talked to DE and pretty much decided they were innocent from the jump -- which is fine, but he tried to pretend like he never had any bias in the case, which was completely false. He's a guy who strictly looks for questionable cases simply so he can act as this sort of "injustice warrior" fighting to correct it (Adnan Sayed, etc.), but the worst part of it is, he enters these cases and makes up his mind without ever really delving into them beforehand. With the WM3 case, he was learning as he went along -- so along the way, he got many things wrong; then essentially painted himself into a corner and had to double-down before investigating all aspects of the case (which he nowhere near did).

Also, his Oxygen special was completely pointless. Don't get me wrong: I support his effort to have any DNA tested. That said, his special included nothing new about the case at all. One would be better served to simply watch all the Paradise Lost docs -- they contain much more information. Ruff's special -- a lot of the time -- is simply footage taken from the PL docs anyway.

yeah i had high hopes thinking ruff would bring some new insight into the case but nope, it was pretty much everything we've already known for years now. and i agree in regards to what you said about how he immediately wrote off the WM3 as innocent. i don't believe they did it but they also should not be ruled out right off the bat either. but i totally get that he has an agenda and is focused on hobbs as the main suspect. the jacoby interview was really the only part of the doc i found interesting

i appreciate his effort in trying to get ellington/the state to have the evidence tested but the doc was a complete letdown for me

 

[Userid]

yeah i had high hopes thinking ruff would bring some new insight into the case but nope, it was pretty much everything we've already known for years now. and i agree in regards to what you said about how he immediately wrote off the WM3 as innocent. i don't believe they did it but they also should not be ruled out right off the bat either. but i totally get that he has an agenda and is focused on hobbs as the main suspect. the jacoby interview was really the only part of the doc i found interesting

i appreciate his effort in trying to get ellington/the state to have the evidence tested but the doc was a complete letdown for me

I just watched the ID Channel's 3 part series on the case and it was light-years better than Ruff's. I went in with very little hopes, and it wasn't exactly groundbreaking in terms of anything new, but it was well-balanced throughout and had interesting interviews with DE's family, JB, and Dan Stidham. I liked this special more than any other in recent years because it wasn't just trying to pin it on TH and wasn't desperately trying to say that all the injuries were caused by turtles.

Anyway, Stidham said that there was DNA evidence found on the private area of one of the victims, that doesn't match the WM3 or TH. He believes this is the key to finding out the source and he feels like it was a serial-killer trucker, unknown to the victims. I've always believed that this was quite possible, and that the murders occurred in the back of a big semi-trailer, which was parked in the 76 Lot. This would explain the lack of blood at the creek site and why anyone would choose this particularly inconvenient and conspicuous dump site abutted by two 24 hour establishments, an entire apartment complex/neighborhood, and a busy service road & highway all within sight of it.

 

[DHT1339]

I just watched the ID Channel's 3 part series on the case and it was light-years better than Ruff's. I went in with very little hopes, and it wasn't exactly groundbreaking in terms of anything new, but it was well-balanced throughout and had interesting interviews with DE's family, JB, and Dan Stidham. I liked this special more than any other in recent years because it wasn't just trying to pin it on TH and wasn't desperately trying to say that all the injuries were caused by turtles.

Anyway, Stidham said that there was DNA evidence found on the private area of one of the victims, that doesn't match the WM3 or TH. He believes this is the key to finding out the source and he feels like it was a serial-killer trucker, unknown to the victims. I've always believed that this was quite possible, and that the murders occurred in the back of a big semi-trailer, which was parked in the 76 Lot. This would explain the lack of blood at the creek site and why anyone would choose this particularly inconvenient and conspicuous dump site abutted by two 24 hour establishments, an entire apartment complex/neighborhood, and a busy service road & highway all within sight of it.

yeah i wouldn't rule out the trucker theory given the killer's attempt to hide everything. going off the maps of the area in '93, it looks like it would have been possible for a trucker parked at the 76 stop to enter the woods from near the pond behind the BB without being seen.

but how would a trucker have transported three little boys into a trailer in broad daylight and then taken them back into the woods? it doesn't look like a close walk from the discovery site to the 76. unless there was more than one person involved of course

 

[iluvmua]

John Mark Beyers has been killed in a car accident

 

[Userid]

yeah i wouldn't rule out the trucker theory given the killer's attempt to hide everything. going off the maps of the area in '93, it looks like it would have been possible for a trucker parked at the 76 stop to enter the woods from near the pond behind the BB without being seen.

but how would a trucker have transported three little boys into a trailer in broad daylight and then taken them back into the woods? it doesn't look like a close walk from the discovery site to the 76. unless there was more than one person involved of course

The way I recall, it is a pretty close walk. The 76 Lot was very large, and a semi parked in the back row of the lot was close walking distance to the discovery site. You can see from this photo that was posted on the callahan.mysite.com website. You can see the trucks parked along the back row in the top right of the photo, and the discovery site below, which is (in my opinion) less than a stone's throw away.

http://callahan.mysite.com/images2/aerial/aerial_55.JPG

I think he lured the boys into the trailer/truck. Boys that age would have been fascinated by big trucks like that.

Having the truck parked there, the killer could have easily went to and fro multiple times throughout the night to dispose of everything. Not only that, but he'd have a bird's eye view of the area to know when the coast was clear. Remember, there were no tire tracks found anywhere around the discovery site -- this would explain why, because the truck was never moved from the 76 lot.

 

[DHT1339]

The way I recall, it is a pretty close walk. The 76 Lot was very large, and a semi parked in the back row of the lot was close walking distance to the discovery site. You can see from this photo that was posted on the callahan.mysite.com website. You can see the trucks parked along the back row in the top right of the photo, and the discovery site below, which is (in my opinion) less than a stone's throw away.

http://callahan.mysite.com/images2/aerial/aerial_55.JPG

I think he lured the boys into the trailer/truck. Boys that age would have been fascinated by big trucks like that.

Having the truck parked there, the killer could have easily went to and fro multiple times throughout the night to dispose of everything. Not only that, but he'd have a bird's eye view of the area to know when the coast was clear. Remember, there were no tire tracks found anywhere around the discovery site -- this would explain why, because the truck was never moved from the 76 lot.

is that the pipe bridge and the mayfair apartments in the photo?

yeah i guess it doesn't look like it would be a far walk based off that photo. like i said, i wouldn't rule out that it was a random trucker who committed the murders. if this is true though, i wonder why they would use the woods as a dump site when the mississippi river is not too far? they could've easily transported the bodies by truck to the river and dumped them there. would make more sense than trying to hide everything in those woods. its like the killer just panicked and figured they'd just try to hide everything (badly)

 

[Userid]

is that the pipe bridge and the mayfair apartments in the photo?

yeah i guess it doesn't look like it would be a far walk based off that photo. like i said, i wouldn't rule out that it was a random trucker who committed the murders. if this is true though, i wonder why they would use the woods as a dump site when the mississippi river is not too far? they could've easily transported the bodies by truck to the river and dumped them there. would make more sense than trying to hide everything in those woods. its like the killer just panicked and figured they'd just try to hide everything (badly)

Yes, to the left. That is also the 10 mile bayou, where the bikes were disposed (separate from the bodies).

Yes, I've asked numerous times why the Mississippi wasn't used. That would have been a more logical and hidden place, with multiple access points. However, it would make sense that a big semi-truck wouldn't have been able to access that -- it would have been too difficult to maneuver such a huge vehicle. A big semi-truck is limited in terms of off-road access, compared to a normal truck or car. That, and the killer would have to have knowledge of a good access point to the Mississippi alone, let alone one that could be reached by semi-truck. An out-of-state trucker would not have had such knowledge.

 

[DHT1339]

Yes, to the left. That is also the 10 mile bayou, where the bikes were disposed (separate from the bodies).

Yes, I've asked numerous times why the Mississippi wasn't used. That would have been a more logical and hidden place, with multiple access points. However, it would make sense that a big semi-truck wouldn't have been able to access that -- it would have been too difficult to maneuver such a huge vehicle. A big semi-truck is limited in terms of off-road access, compared to a normal truck or car. That, and the killer would have to have knowledge of a good access point to the Mississippi alone, let alone one that could be reached by semi-truck. An out-of-state trucker would not have had such knowledge.

i've always wondered if someone on the top level of the mayfair apts would've been able to see the killer at the end of the pipe bridge as he threw in the bikes (assuming that happened when there was still daylight)

so i wonder if they also would've been able to see the killer entering the woods from the 76 truck stop or if their view would've been obstructed. can't tell from that photo. i'd really like to know if they interviewed people who lived on the top level but given WMPD's numerous other mistakes, i highly doubt it

 

[Userid]

i've always wondered if someone on the top level of the mayfair apts would've been able to see the killer at the end of the pipe bridge as he threw in the bikes (assuming that happened when there was still daylight)

so i wonder if they also would've been able to see the killer entering the woods from the 76 truck stop or if their view would've been obstructed. can't tell from that photo. i'd really like to know if they interviewed people who lived on the top level but given WMPD's numerous other mistakes, i highly doubt it

Hard to say. I think the pipe bridge dips down a little and the view may have been obstructed by a row of trees/bushes on the other side of Mayfair.

The police did canvass Mayfair. How well is anyone's guess, but they did go door to door. You can find the hand-written notes from the door-to-door's on the Callahan website, but a lot of them are illegible. Some simply say "No answer" (no one was home) -- it's unknown if they ever followed up on the no-answers or not (I'd doubt it).

I believe there was a sighting of the boys in one of the Mayfair lots, which I think was given by someone who lived in the Mayfair, but can't remember exactly.

 

[DHT1339]

Hard to say. I think the pipe bridge dips down a little and the view may have been obstructed by a row of trees/bushes on the other side of Mayfair.

The police did canvass Mayfair. How well is anyone's guess, but they did go door to door. You can find the hand-written notes from the door-to-door's on the Callahan website, but a lot of them are illegible. Some simply say "No answer" (no one was home) -- it's unknown if they ever followed up on the no-answers or not (I'd doubt it).

I believe there was a sighting of the boys in one of the Mayfair lots, which I think was given by someone who lived in the Mayfair, but can't remember exactly.

yeah i'm not sure how it looked in '93, but i recall seeing a video on YT from someone who visited the pipe bridge while the mayfair apts were still standing and while it does indeed dip, there wasn't enough trees or brush to obscure them from the top floor of the apts. but i'm sure it looked differently back in '93 so who knows

i think i've read that the boys used to hangout in/around the mayfair lot. the people who lives there probably could've offered some clues that may have helped with the case but i doubt the WMPD ever actually gave that idea serious thought

 

[Userid]

yeah i'm not sure how it looked in '93, but i recall seeing a video on YT from someone who visited the pipe bridge while the mayfair apts were still standing and while it does indeed dip, there wasn't enough trees or brush to obscure them from the top floor of the apts. but i'm sure it looked differently back in '93 so who knows

i think i've read that the boys used to hangout in/around the mayfair lot. the people who lives there probably could've offered some clues that may have helped with the case but i doubt the WMPD ever actually gave that idea serious thought

True. Yes, I read the same -- I even read that they used one of the laundry rooms at Mayfair as a "hangout," but who knows if that was just a rumor.

 

[DHT1339]

True. Yes, I read the same -- I even read that they used one of the laundry rooms at Mayfair as a "hangout," but who knows if that was just a rumor.

yes, it was the laundry room at mayfair they would hangout in

i'm not sure if there was an actual sighting of the boys at/near the apts that night but i think i recall reading one of MM's classmates had told his/her father that they had seen MM around 4-5 that night and that he had said he was going to the mayfair "secret hideout." i know some of the mayfair residents had told police they witnessed "satanic rituals" near the crime scene in the past. that makes me think there had to have been someone on the top floor who just might have been able to see something. a glimpse of the killer throwing in the bikes, a trucker walking into the woods. anything really

 

[7Wm3100]

Was disappointed with bob ruffs documentary. I still dont get it tbh.

You,ve got a case where the three kids we,re tied up with three different knots. To anyone with common sense....it does point to there being 3 or more people involved in the murders. Its a massive clue. Any serious profiler....would have that pretty much foremost in their thoughts. Cant take any profiler seriously that doesnt regard that when making up their profile. Regardless if they are highly regarded or not.

We,re most likely looking for 3 or more people involved. The only other way is if the lone murderer made it look that way. But if your putting probability into it bearing in mind....that a lone murderer is always gonna be less likely bearing in mind how much more difficult it would be to kill 3 kids alone that it would be say if there we,re as many people involved in the murders.

The profile....definitely points to more than one person involved. We can make an educated guess on that based on high probability.

From there....we,ve got to be honest with ourselves and say....with a degree of high probability looking at all the suspects the west memphis 3....are still the biggest suspects to this day. Far and above anyone else.