Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #20

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Claycat

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Good luck! The last time I submitted something to their tip email, delivery was delayed for several days and finally failed. I talked to an agent about something else, and I told him about this problem. He said he would talk to the woman in charge of that. I hope he did! I will try to send mine again.
 

Oklahoma Cowgirl

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When the Catholic Seal of Confession was put into law in English law, then USA, it was extended to all denominations (including Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic, etc.). Many of my grad student classmates in ministry classes were Baptist, Church of Christ, etc. -- all spoke of hearing confessions. It happens. People need to unburden themselves and the Pastor is there to represent God, to comfort, advise them . . . . and it is constitutionally protected no matter what the Denomination.

Thanks, Weleetkal, for the personal info. Know that I'm praying for Pastor Lowe and the other Baptist Pastors around there. Not proved guilty yet, but OSBI seems to have gone to great lengths before the arrest in a proper way. I grieve for the girls and their parents, friends, and for him. A lot of what goes wrong is internet *advertiser censored*; the office of Pastor puts a man in an area where enormous holiness is required to resist viscious prolonged temptations; some guys crumble. I didn't realize how bad it was till I worked decades with priests -- some people just target them as "forbidden fruits, let's take him down" -- others take out their hatreds and frustration on them.

"There but for the grace of God go I." St. Francis of Assisi said of a leper. It applies here -- first people are set up by phoney sex research by a pervert Kinsey, then generations get pulled into sin and think it is healthy, . . . . people's consciences get really radically confused.

Those who have not done prolonged and serious ministry don't realize that it isn't all honor and respect from people.
The Pastors and Priests and Rabbis come under heavy duty temptations -- takes tons of prayer to resist.
 

Ruflossn

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When the Catholic Seal of Confession was put into law in English law, then USA, it was extended to all denominations (including Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic, etc.). Many of my grad student classmates in ministry classes were Baptist, Church of Christ, etc. -- all spoke of hearing confessions. It happens. People need to unburden themselves and the Pastor is there to represent God, to comfort, advise them . . . . and it is constitutionally protected no matter what the Denomination.

Thanks, Weleetkal, for the personal info. Know that I'm praying for Pastor Lowe and the other Baptist Pastors around there. Not proved guilty yet, but OSBI seems to have gone to great lengths before the arrest in a proper way. I grieve for the girls and their parents, friends, and for him. A lot of what goes wrong is internet *advertiser censored*; the office of Pastor puts a man in an area where enormous holiness is required to resist viscious prolonged temptations; some guys crumble. I didn't realize how bad it was till I worked decades with priests -- some people just target them as "forbidden fruits, let's take him down" -- others take out their hatreds and frustration on them.

"There but for the grace of God go I." St. Francis of Assisi said of a leper. It applies here -- first people are set up by phoney sex research by a pervert Kinsey, then generations get pulled into sin and think it is healthy, . . . . people's consciences get really radically confused.

Those who have not done prolonged and serious ministry don't realize that it isn't all honor and respect from people.
The Pastors and Priests and Rabbis come under heavy duty temptations -- takes tons of prayer to resist.

When I answered Tapu's question about Confession, I was answering in the fact that it is not a "requirement" for partaking in communion. Just like fasting is not a requirement for partaking in communion. (In the Baptist religion) Many people "confess their sins" for varied reasons.
 

DLTinOKLA

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Thanks, Weleetkal, for the personal info. Know that I'm praying for Pastor Lowe and the other Baptist Pastors around there. Not proved guilty yet, but OSBI seems to have gone to great lengths before the arrest in a proper way. I grieve for the girls and their parents, friends, and for him. A lot of what goes wrong is internet *advertiser censored*; the office of Pastor puts a man in an area where enormous holiness is required to resist viscious prolonged temptations; some guys crumble. I didn't realize how bad it was till I worked decades with priests -- some people just target them as "forbidden fruits, let's take him down" -- others take out their hatreds and frustration on them.

"There but for the grace of God go I." St. Francis of Assisi said of a leper. It applies here -- first people are set up by phoney sex research by a pervert Kinsey, then generations get pulled into sin and think it is healthy, . . . . people's consciences get really radically confused.

Those who have not done prolonged and serious ministry don't realize that it isn't all honor and respect from people.
The Pastors and Priests and Rabbis come under heavy duty temptations -- takes tons of prayer to resist.

I haven't posted in a while because I haven't had anything to add but I've been keeping up to date on the forum. I just couldn't keep from responding to cowgirl's post. With all do respect cowgirl I totally disagree with what you wrote. Yes, Mr. Lowe is innocent until proven guilty and my response isn't necessarily in reference to the charges against him. Child molestation or pedophilia isn't a temptation. It's a horrible and despicable crime! There is a huge difference! An innocent child doesn't do anything to tempt an adult into abusing them. A child molester is the worst kind of abuser who takes the innocence of a child and forever damages that child's life. People aren't tempted to molest children. They prey on children to molest! They seek out positions that put them in contact with children. They work hard to secure a child's trust even seeking out children that are vulnerable and needy. Then they rape and abuse that child's innocence. I will never pray for an abuser of children. I believe in hell and I believe the hottest fires of hell are reserved for someone that sexually abuses children. Even Jesus said it would be better for someone who harms children to have a millstone hung around their neck and thrown into the sea .

The only thing I will say about Mr. Lowe is I found where he was only ordained into the ministry in 2004. Could he have been seeking out a way to put him in close contact with children??? Some will argue that they know him personally and don't believe he could ever do such a thing. Folks do you remember a man by the name of Dennis Radar who turned out to be the BTK serial killer? All his friends and family were in disbelief and shock when they found out who was the real man hiding behind Mr. Family Man, Scout Leader and Church Leader. He even used his church's computer to type letters to the police.

I have no idea whether there is a connection between the alleged sexual abuse and the girl's murders or not. I'm also not sure we'll even know anytime soon of any connection because our OSBI doesn't want us knowing anything. But the alleged crimes and the closeness of the murders sure makes we think there might be some connection.
 

SeriouslySearching

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I agree with your post, DLT. Pedophiles are the lowest of the low and when you have a man who has put himself in the position of trust in such a way...I think he is the scum of the earth for taking advantage of poor young girls. Disgusting!!

I would NEVER defend a man suspected of abusing young girls because chances are very good he is guilty and it is NOT because the internet or anything else was a "temptation"...but because he is a creep who preys on innocent children for his own sexual deviancy and pleasure. Period.
 

Oklahoma Cowgirl

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NEVER? Think about it.

Granted Pedophiles are lowest of low, an accusation does

not equal a guilty verdict; "Innocent until proven guilty"

isn't just a platitude. What if you were accused by a

group of children of something you'd never done, never

thought of? THEN I'd wager you'd want an attorney to

defend you against these charges.

Too many good people have been destroyed before a trial

proves them innocent. Or worse still, victim of a setup.
 

MeoW333

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Sometimes people decide to join religious orders such as becoming a priest (especially back in the day) since they wanted to try to find a way to "stop" or ignore (not sure of a word) their sexual urges, which may children, or homosexual (back in the day homosexually was frowned upon a lot more than today; you can see the huge decline in numbers of those who want to become nuns or priests today) These reasons for joining the church are the wrong reasons to begin with, and we've seen the outcome of what happens when someone decides to become a priest or rabbi for reasons as such.
 

MeoW333

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I think it is something that LE has to rule out. There is always a possibility the girls witnessed something someone felt they should not have...which OSBI thought early on.

The close proximity of the camp is one reason to suspect the pastor and the alleged sexual abuse is certainly another when you add the age of his victims. This would put the girls within his reach and also in his target zone.

SS, i agree it should be looked into, at the very least so it can be ruled out if not related to the murders.
 

weleetka1

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Well, I'm sticking to my story of ML. It is a tragedy on both sides. I love my daughter (she's 21), but she still likes to date men that could possible appear on a magazine cover. As her Dad, I repeatedly tell her; you cant tell what a person is all about just by their looks. ML was a meek man. If found guilty, one way or another, ML will die in prison. Also, remember one of my first posts about influential people in Weleetka can expond BS about you, and you are labeled that, even if it is undue. No wonder I live in Tucson nowadays.
 

Skully

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I haven't read the whole thread, but just my take on this after watching the video, I don't think he was involved with the girls murder or had contact with them. He had his prey right at the church, didn't have to go looking for kids. I also think this was someone that the girls knew well enough to I.D. JMO.
 

Tom'sGirl

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When the Catholic Seal of Confession was put into law in English law, then USA, it was extended to all denominations (including Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic, etc.). Many of my grad student classmates in ministry classes were Baptist, Church of Christ, etc. -- all spoke of hearing confessions. It happens. People need to unburden themselves and the Pastor is there to represent God, to comfort, advise them . . . . and it is constitutionally protected no matter what the Denomination.

Thanks, Weleetkal, for the personal info. Know that I'm praying for Pastor Lowe and the other Baptist Pastors around there. Not proved guilty yet, but OSBI seems to have gone to great lengths before the arrest in a proper way. I grieve for the girls and their parents, friends, and for him. A lot of what goes wrong is internet *advertiser censored*; the office of Pastor puts a man in an area where enormous holiness is required to resist viscious prolonged temptations; some guys crumble. I didn't realize how bad it was till I worked decades with priests -- some people just target them as "forbidden fruits, let's take him down" -- others take out their hatreds and frustration on them.

"There but for the grace of God go I." St. Francis of Assisi said of a leper. It applies here -- first people are set up by phoney sex research by a pervert Kinsey, then generations get pulled into sin and think it is healthy, . . . . people's consciences get really radically confused.

Those who have not done prolonged and serious ministry don't realize that it isn't all honor and respect from people.
The Pastors and Priests and Rabbis come under heavy duty temptations -- takes tons of prayer to resist.
OK cowgirl, we appreciate you joining in the discussion of this case, however I don't want this thread, or any thread to turn into a Religious Debate.

We all have our views on Religion, but we are discussing the possibility of the Pastor being involved, nothing more.
 

GetSmart

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I found this today while surfing! i had never seen this article about the girls.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/06...me-connection-shocking-murder-two-young-girls

Columnist Alludes to Video Game Connection in Shocking Murder of Two Young Girls

June 15, 2008
oklahoma-girls.jpg
While a small Oklahoma town reels from the senseless murder of two young girls, a columnist for the Wichita Falls Times Record News, has alluded to a video game connection.
While Deanna Watson never explicitly blames violent games, today's column is laden with suggestions that the killer or killers were gamers:
To some horrible creature... Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Whitaker were nothing more than target practice. The two young girls... were gunned down as if they were images in a video game...

The gunman, or gunmen, never even needed to get out of the vehicle... They never even needed to come to a complete stop.

You get extra points for that, right?

...I wonder just how this despicable person -- or persons -- received such training. Could it have been with a video game controller? Granted, not every gamer who plays “Grand Theft Auto” goes on to commit murder...

Perfectly sane and humane individuals can entertain themselves with... games where one can take on the role of an antagonist and assassin, rise through the ranks through bank robberies and pimping. Voyaging through the criminal underworld could be quite fun to someone who would never, not in a million years, commit such a crime.

It’s a game.

Could driving up on Taylor and Skyla been the next level of an absurd game?

In less than 30 minutes — Game Over.

...What we can suspect, though, is the indifference it takes to end these girls’ lives. Indifference that could be the result of hitting the “Quit” button one too many times.
Meanwhile, CBS News reports that police are pursuing several lines of inquiry in the slaying:
Several motives have been explored, including a random thrill killing, attempted abduction, a case of mistaken identity and the possibility that the girls happened upon a crime in progress... it is suspected that a local person was involved because the killings occurred in such an isolated area.


 

weleetka1

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Get_Smart, Howdy. That journalist's story was somewhat but not totally far fetched. The mind of the killer(s) of our "angels" likely had mental problems, either naturally, an event or situation in their life, or self induced. Remember when we were discussing JP and possible schitzoprenia. Sure enough one of our WS'ers found out JP had been institutionalized for mental health reasons. Inferior mental health, and meth, OMG. Remember, Schitzophrenics hear voices in their head uncontrollably, and they hallucinate. It is not uncommon for a schitzophrenic person to think you are trying to kill them, and in the blink of an eye, you're dead (violently). Oh yeah GS, watch out for them thar 2 legged rattlers to. Psychopaths and Narcassists are just those two types of two legged rattlers out in the free society. Scary.
 

YellowDog

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I think that journalist is just making a wild stab with no basis whatsoever for video games being involved. Senseless reporting. When this killer or killers is caught, I think there will be a definition connection of some kind to either the girls or their families.
 

GetSmart

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Sure enough one of our WS'ers found out JP had been institutionalized for mental health reasons. Inferior mental health, and meth, OMG. Remember, Schitzophrenics hear voices in their head uncontrollably, and they hallucinate. It is not uncommon for a schitzophrenic person to think you are trying to kill them, and in the blink of an eye, you're dead (violently). Oh yeah GS, watch out for them thar 2 legged rattlers to. Psychopaths and Narcassists are just those two types of two legged rattlers out in the free society. Scary.
W1 LOL.. Reminds me of the story ..Well I don't know why you are so surprised I bit you!! You knew I was a snake when you picked me up!!


Well he has to get the meth from somewhere or manufactor it himself.. and if that is the case we are right back to where we started that the girls happened upon something or a crazed Meth head went berzerk (sp)


Feeling a little down lately or like a bi--h on wheels who can’t reach the brakes? Are the voices in your living room walls getting louder? If so – it’s time to talk mental health!!!

for those with more serious mental health conditions (i.e. schizophrenia or psychosis), their symptoms actually get more severe when they get high.
Methamphetamine is not a "cure" for mental health problems. It can’t fix the root causes of these problems. In fact, using crystal regularly may only worsen the underlying issues or mask them completely. Regular crystal use can also interfere with your ability to take psychiatric medications as prescribed. And crystal can have harmful interactions with many psych meds as well. All of these issues simply complicate mental health conditions.
http://www.milehighmethproject.com/mentalHealth.htm
 

DLTinOKLA

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You know the OSBI confirmed after the arrest of the pastor that there is "body fluid" that was found at the crime scene. I remember reading a few posts about body fluid being found at the scene but I didn't remember reading where the OSBI had said it for sure. But I could of missed it! I remember reading that someone thought it might be urine. If it was urine then it was someone gloating and adding the ultimate insult over what they had just done. That would lead me to think it was teens. If it was semen why didn't the OSBI just say that? Well of course they are keeping everything a secret so nothing surprised me. If it was semen they might of kept it quiet because they know they are dealing with a sexual deviant and didn't want to frighten people when they have no clue who did the crime. But I was thinking what if it was vomit? I'm not trying to be gross here. But we know that there was possibly two people involved in this crime but there could of been more than two present right? What is the possibility that one of the persons involved in the crime or a witness to it (even the so called POI who might of just came up after they were shot) threw up after seeing two dead girls who had been shot multiple times? I think it is a possibility.

Also, I remember a lot being said early on about the Insane Clown Posse and the possibility that someone that followed their violent lyrics and gang mentality might be involved in this crime. Well this is a little off subject but the accused killer of the woman and her four children in El Reno was a follower of ICP and even has tatoos that boast of the fact.
 

Ruflossn

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You know the OSBI confirmed after the arrest of the pastor that there is "body fluid" that was found at the crime scene. I remember reading a few posts about body fluid being found at the scene but I didn't remember reading where the OSBI had said it for sure. But I could of missed it! I remember reading that someone thought it might be urine. If it was urine then it was someone gloating and adding the ultimate insult over what they had just done. That would lead me to think it was teens. If it was semen why didn't the OSBI just say that? Well of course they are keeping everything a secret so nothing surprised me. If it was semen they might of kept it quiet because they know they are dealing with a sexual deviant and didn't want to frighten people when they have no clue who did the crime. But I was thinking what if it was vomit? I'm not trying to be gross here. But we know that there was possibly two people involved in this crime but there could of been more than two present right? What is the possibility that one of the persons involved in the crime or a witness to it (even the so called POI who might of just came up after they were shot) threw up after seeing two dead girls who had been shot multiple times? I think it is a possibility.

Also, I remember a lot being said early on about the Insane Clown Posse and the possibility that someone that followed their violent lyrics and gang mentality might be involved in this crime. Well this is a little off subject but the accused killer of the woman and her four children in El Reno was a follower of ICP and even has tatoos that boast of the fact.

Hi DLT~
In the video where OSBI spokesperson / Jessica Brown is discussing the arrest of the Weleetka pastor, she never confirms there was bodily fluid left at the scene. The reporter uses the words "bodily fluid". JB uses the term "forensics". I had originally thought she had confirmed the bodily fluid left at the scene also but, upon closer review, she does not. I think the reporter was "fishing" for information. (Good Job to Kevin Sims, the reporter, btw) If you watch the video again, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.......

Have a good day.
Flossie
 

MeoW333

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I haven't read the whole thread, but just my take on this after watching the video, I don't think he was involved with the girls murder or had contact with them. He had his prey right at the church, didn't have to go looking for kids. I also think this was someone that the girls knew well enough to I.D. JMO.

I have to agree with you, Bern, that the only 3 reasons to murder two young girls would be (being there was no evidence of sexual assault)
1. If they had spotted someone they knew doing something bad and could identify them
2. A psychopath randomly killed them (someone with a mental health criminal history of violence
A. either an adult
B. Teenage boys at the time, that may have been overlooked due to their being underage
C. Retaliatory crime on one of their families
 

MeoW333

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I'm thinking LE should also be checking into the local high school to see if any local boys have shown signs of conduct disorder (psychopathy)
The number of shots in both the girls is overkill.
 
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