Social Groups

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amandab said:
What blows my mind is that I've been here for 5 years and I didn't even know what the Social Groups were until this morning.
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I was clueless to amanda:)
 
Personally, I never let words hurt me. I am also adult enough to realize that not everyone thinks like me (thank goodness)!

I am one of 7 children and learned a little snarky saying in order to survive - "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me!" I grew up with 4 brothers and 2 sisters who loved to tease me, LOL.
 
SeekingJana said:
JMO, but if something related to any case can't be posted in a private area such as the PL, then it doesn't belong on WS.

I also agree with the poster who asked why Tricia should pay to have HER bandwidth taken up by " private social groups". If members want to discuss substance abuse on the Internet, then for gosh sake, Google recovery sites and go post.
Same with life issues like pregnancy, birth, babies, illnesses, autism, etc. If it can't be said in the JR or PL, then why are you trying to discuss it on this forum at all? It's easy to FIND an existing Internet forum and discuss your social/ emotional issues or find a therapist who can offer expert guidance. WS exists to discuss and solve crimes.

~respectfully snipped ~

Sincerely,
Maria
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I don't disagree with you that other forums are out there, and I know how to google for other specific groups should I want to. I just want to say that when I found myself identifying on a personal level with posters here on WS while reading/discussing cases, that it was a nice addition to WS to be able to have a place to discuss that connection. It's not like we asked for social groups (private or not) so that we could take up bandwidth. They were there & people used them. It seems that some of them were abused for personal gain or at the expense of other posters & sadly now everyone will pay the price.
 
JMO - it was not the concept of the Social Groups that failed, it was the posters themselves. For example, one of the groups regarding Haleigh Cummings, because some posters decided to play both sides the groups became ineffective. Because some posters took it upon themselves to take information and identities of some local posters, even relatives names, to other places, it effectively got these local posters to go silent. Not only were these people victimized by the events occurring around them, they became vicitimized at WS of all places. Very disturbing.

These local posters chose the group they wanted to talk to, and they did it this way out of fear of retaliation and because of what they knew. Local posters have long been a rich source of information to WS as they are living in the middle of the nightmare we discuss. They often have information we would not ever become aware of and because they have no "links" they are not permitted to post such information in the normal fashion.

In the Haleigh Cummings case - for some reason some posters believed it acceptable to expose family members, and locals on other boards. When a poster exposes another poster at various other websites - it is solely that poster which is to blame, not the group or anyone else. Some posters don't seem to get it that this isn't about who is right or who is wrong, it is all about a five year old little girl. Sad commentary when posters believe their hurt feelings are more important than a missing child.

The concept of the social group did not fail - only posters themselves failed by playing stupid games. Missing children are not a game.
 
I was never a member of any social groups and I don't know what you all sleuthed out in them but IMO the problems with the HC RT's were hardly ever caused by people who discovered and wanted to discuss something new. Mostly they were caused by recycling the old arguing points that we had been warned about by the long-suffering moderator time and time again and rehashing the same old squabbles that people knew perfectly well would cause the RT to be closed, just like it did the previous 20 times. Sometimes I got a bit paranoid and wondered if it was intentional, if some people wanted the thread closed because the conversation was getting uncomfortable. But it was never the fault of one side only. You can't tit if the other guy is not tatting.

As for challenges, I don't think anything we can sleuth is very useful as a theory if it can't stand critical scrutiny and I don't think people should take it personally. I completely expect people to point it out if they think something I post is stupid, illogical or inaccurate. Maybe they'll convince me, maybe they won't, but if my viewpoint has an answer to the the criticism it makes it stronger. This is not a court of law but if it was, the challenges would be expected there too.

I agree that the private SG's might be useful when sleuthing something that people are not sure is relevant, say, looking at myspace photos and address info of people who may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with a certain case. Those discussions perhaps shouldn't be in the open threads for anyone to google until it's certain that they are involved.
 
Charlie, as always, you bring it full circle: Where is HaLeigh? was lost as a question and used only as the punctuation mark in a battle that really had nothing to do with her. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.
 
debs said:
I have seen, since the closure of the RT and now the SG, that sites like AH have taken on all of the ugliness that WS wishes to dissociate itself from, and it is well rid of it all. I am embarrassed when I read over there to see that in a "gloves off" atmosphere, the lowest form of communication is given free reign to box it out.
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Respectfully snipped ...


What is "RT" and "AH"?
I am soooo out of the loop.

I think I am part of the autism social group and one I started for American Idol fanatics, but I didn't really partake.
I am finding it hard to have time to discuss one case much less multiple topics.

I have been here, gosh... 6 years I think? And half the time, I have no clue about all the drama. Some would say that is a blessing, lol. But then I get nosy and want to know what is going on.
Thank goodness I have so much crap going on in my life personally that I don't have time to get involved. It sounds like the drama going on would just cause more unneeded stress.

I used to find years ago that being in the middle of the drama was fun, for some odd reason, and made me feel part of a "group" by taking sides and alienating others. I never really figured out why I enjoyed that crap so much. But I sure as heck don't miss it now.

i like to come to WS to discuss and read about the cases that interest me ... so many of them do, but it's hard to find time to be involved in them all. But I also like going to the Jury room to get personal advice on the challenges I am facing in my own life. I don't feel the need to be in a social group to do that. I just lay it all out there for anyone who is a member to see. Perhaps that is dangerous, risky, or cause for me to get scrutinized. Heck, I don't care. I am who I am, (many) flaws and all. I am naked, judge me .... lol.

I love WS and will never understand the drama that periodically creeps up and divides people into two (or more) sides.
In the end, I think we're all here for the same reason ... I would hope, anyway -- to sleuth crimes, get answers and help at least one person get media attention when they are missing, murdered, or a now "cold case".
I'd hope if *I* or someone I loved are ever one of those -- missing, murdered, or forgotten -- that someone, somewhere would care enough to help me and/or my loved ones.
 
RT= rumor thread @ Parking Lot
AH= Art Harris, a journalist/blogger whose site has published lots on the Haleigh case.
 
On the R. thread the question was asked once "why do people come to this thread, what makes it so special?" I wanted to answer then that it was because certain people just like to argue and cause dissention. I still believe that and as a person who only posted sparingly and mostly read the posts, I could see it so plainly. There were statements made that were totally to incite and cause arguments.

I knew and so did anyone else who was on the thread regularily who they were and when the baiting would begin. So, having said that, why couldn't the moderator just get rid of those people. Put them off the forum permanently. Not just a time out but an expulsion. JMO
 
IMO this has nothing to do with hurt feelings, theories or information challenged. It has to do with gang and bully mentality that occurred by certain posters. In addition, to lack of respect being shown to posters participating in the discussion. It would also help if posters took personal responsibility for their own actions vs blaming it on other posters or the mods.
 
and am still pissed off about it. I think the moderators exercise WAY too much control over what's allowable and what isn't. I mean, Christ, we're NOT Jane Marple and this forum is no pinky-fingered tea party with iced cakes and dandelion wine. (Or it shouldn't be.) We're all adults and if someone gets rubbed the wrong way, s/he (usually she, predictably) ought to be able to take it on the chin and not run crying to the moderators to ban somebody, for the love of God. I mean, honestly. Ladies out there: GROW A SPINE.
 
Respectfully snipped from Donjeta:

I agree that the private SG's might be useful when sleuthing something that people are not sure is relevant, say, looking at myspace photos and address info of people who may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with a certain case. Those discussions perhaps shouldn't be in the open threads for anyone to google until it's certain that they are involved.

Exactly- that is what we were doing on the SG I was involved in. I guess I am surprised at the number of posters on this thread who seem not to follow that there might be reasons why something would not be best posted in public. In cases in which for example you know the family is viewing it becomes impossible to post and discuss suspicions of their involvement.
In the SG I was involved in, there is infomation I am getting from a confidental source that can NOT be posted in public. Membership in my group was limited to those I knew and trusted. Some of this information has I believe led to getting LE on the right track in the case.
Can this be done via Personal messaging and emails- of course. But it's not the same and makes interaction take longer.
I would ask that WS moderation reconsider at least a part of this decision. Perhaps some allowance of groups on a case by case basis with the person originating taking responsibility for what goes on and is said and held accountable.
 
Snick1946 said:
Respectfully snipped from Donjeta:

I agree that the private SG's might be useful when sleuthing something that people are not sure is relevant, say, looking at myspace photos and address info of people who may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with a certain case. Those discussions perhaps shouldn't be in the open threads for anyone to google until it's certain that they are involved.

Exactly- that is what we were doing on the SG I was involved in. I guess I am surprised at the number of posters on this thread who seem not to follow that there might be reasons why something would not be best posted in public. In cases in which for example you know the family is viewing it becomes impossible to post and discuss suspicions of their involvement.
In the SG I was involved in, there is infomation I am getting from a confidental source that can NOT be posted in public. Membership in my group was limited to those I knew and trusted. Some of this information has I believe led to getting LE on the right track in the case.
Can this be done via Personal messaging and emails- of course. But it's not the same and makes interaction take longer.
I would ask that WS moderation reconsider at least a part of this decision. Perhaps some allowance of groups on a case by case basis with the person originating taking responsibility for what goes on and is said and held accountable.
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BBM
Very respectfully meant to the poster above, but I believe that much of the problem on the rumor thread and apparently within the SG is that when these kinds of statements are made, too often other posters do not see them as a discussion of different points of view, but as a direct insult to the intelligence of other posters. When it is implied that posters who have a different view hold that view because "they just don't seem to follow", that is often taken to be a put down, and an insult. IF we all state things as JMO, or "I think" or "I believe" or some other qualifier that allows the reader to disagree without feeling demeaned, then the RT would allow discussion rather than defense.
To keep on topic here, though, I think the mods have given this issue a tremendous amount of consideration and have intelligently come to a correct conclusion. WS exists to foster discussion and communication. Since the social groups were being used to insult and disrespect other posters----and this was being done by groups on BOTH sides of the HC issue---then I respect the decision of the mods. It is THEIR board, which we are allowed to use, so it is THEIR decision. Perhaps we should all just say thank you and let the decision stand.
 
First I would like to thank Trish and all of the mods for doing such a great job! This is a very large forum and in part I think it is one of the best ones out there.

In saying that, I totally disagree with allowing any rumor threads for any case. When the RT was started the upstairs became like a ghost town. I know that the "locals" were approved by Trish and allowed to post however I still don't think that rumors in ANY case should be allowed. Links do not have to be provided and they could say whatever they wanted to say. That is not sluething!

Let's say I hated my neighbor and they got into trouble. I could come on this board prove I was who I said I was and my word would be golden. I could say anything I wanted about them and many of the other posters would believe me simply because I "knew" this person and lived next to them. I saw that many times in the RT. I could destroy this person just because I didn't like them or I wanted to be somebody important in a case.

IMO it's not the SG's that were the problem, it was the RT. The difference in opinion happens in every case however TOS not being the same in the RT allowed a free for all against certain players in this case. If TOS in the RT was the same as the main board, SG's would not have been needed. To be honest, I saw posters on both sides of this getting away with things that made me question if WS was professional. Time again I saw personal infor being posted on other posters (Player for one) and even some personal information on players in the case that had NOTHING to do with this case.

I was a member of Busy's group. I enjoyed reading in there much more that I did the RT. I guess the reason for that is that there were links, reasons why or why not a certain person should be looked into etc. No snarky comments, no gang mentality, just the facts. That's what any case should be about, fact.

To end this book I think that SG's should be allowed but for the right reasons. Some of the SG's I have seen are about very personal things that should not be posted in an open forum. I do not however think that SG's should be allowed simply because both sides of a crime cannot be examined in a professional manner.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I don't want to argue or belabor my point but I think some posters still seem to be of the opinion that all that went on with the SGs was character assasination.
I have never even looked at any other SG other than the one I started and as I have said before, started for the simple reason that some posters were unfomfortable with posting on the murders because they lived in the area. I cannot get too specific here for apparent reasons but this decision will hamper some of us who have been doing serious work on a very sensitive case. Sorry if some folks can't understand that. It's a fact.
There never were any nasty discussions on my SG about other posters.
Just as an aside, and I hope this does not offend someone, but there is a lot more going on in this world besides Haleigh Cummings. I understand this is a case that has engendered strong opinion- it is one I have avoided pretty much as I have the feeling it's emotional quicksand. I think it's extremely sad that the actions of a few are hurting all of us.
 
amandab said:
What blows my mind is that I've been here for 5 years and I didn't even know what the Social Groups were until this morning.
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:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

OMG I'm glad I'm not the only one!
 
Snick1946 said:
I don't want to argue or belabor my point but I think some posters still seem to be of the opinion that all that went on with the SGs was character assasination.
I have never even looked at any other SG other than the one I started and as I have said before, started for the simple reason that some posters were unfomfortable with posting on the murders because they lived in the area. I cannot get too specific here for apparent reasons but this decision will hamper some of us who have been doing serious work on a very sensitive case. Sorry if some folks can't understand that. It's a fact.
There never were any nasty discussions on my SG about other posters.
Just as an aside, and I hope this does not offend someone, but there is a lot more going on in this world besides Haleigh Cummings. I understand this is a case that has engendered strong opinion- it is one I have avoided pretty much as I have the feeling it's emotional quicksand. I think it's extremely sad that the actions of a few are hurting all of us.
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I have no doubt that your SG was conducted in a respectful manner. I assume that posters who were members of your SG are not currently running around to every other forum making up rude and immature variations of your hat to post under. I am also fairly confident that members of your SG did not take up post after post making fun of the outfits, hairstyles, etc. of the case players. At least one poster's full name, home address and phone number was posted for all to see! Imagine how frightening it would be for one of the locals in your SG to have their personal inforamtion posted like that. Warnings and TO's were given time and time again in the Haleigh rumor threads...so the decision to shut it and the SG down comes as no surprise to me. What other choice did the mods have? You are right. It is a shame that the actions of a few have caused everyone to lose.
 
I am not a member of any SG's. What I saw IMO, was that there are definitely sides to the HC case. However, there were gauntlets thrown down on both sides. There was a clear distinction. There has been talk that a certain group didn't gang up on others in a bullying fashion. That's not true, IMO You could see a person's avitar and you knew whether they would blast the comment, or agree with it. It's that way on both sides. What is required in ALL the threads is to take the information being given and weighted whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't agree, skip over it. The world won't stop because you proved him/her wrong or that's not right. That's what the RT had started to become. I looked at it as a free for all. If you don't like it, stay out of there. It's your choice. It is for members only and not viewed by the general public. If people want to hash out theories with each other, do it, but DON'T tattle to the moderator when it gets hot. Of course this is just my opinion and it's not really worth a plug nickle. :)
 
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