Sociopaths and Speech Patterns

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by esiobhan1128, Jun 25, 2010.

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  1. esiobhan1128

    esiobhan1128 Member

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    This is my first time starting a topic here, so I hope this hasn't been started already.

    I have been doing a lot of reading through the Scott Peterson archives and the similarities between that case and this case are astounding. The craziest thing to me going through all of the transcripts, interviews, etc. is the speech patterns of the Petersons and the Anthonys. Most members of both families seem to speak in such a way that WHILE they are speaking you feel as though they are answering/cooperating to a degree. And yet when you go back and READ their words it is completely incoherent nonsense.

    Is this just a case of a bunch of people lying so much they are confusing themselves? Because most people can manage to lie without losing all grasp of the English language. One would think that such prolific liars as KC and SP would certainly be able to float several lies at once.

    Or is it a sociophathic characteristic? Sociopaths often mimic behavior, and a lot of what KC and SP say seem to be a string of sound bites they've picked up throughout their lives that they thought makes them sound smart/helpful/caring, etc. when in fact they are not. KC and SP are the only two defendants whose transcripts I have read so in depth. It would be great if other posters could shed some light on whether or not other sociopaths have adopted a similar speech pattern.
     
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  3. MD MOMMY

    MD MOMMY New Member

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    IMO sociopaths in general go all around the question. Like if you ask "what color is the sky" a sociopath might say "yeah did you see the sky yesterday before that rain storm". This is what I have found in my experience with socipaths generally. They tend to think their 1+1=2, when to someone normal it clearly does not. They avoid direct questions like the plague, they often say "huh?" just to have more time to think of their created answer. This is all JMO of course.
     
  4. BlOnDe_GuRrL

    BlOnDe_GuRrL New Member

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    I hear a lot of ______ from Casey:

    "In a sense..."
    "This is the honest to god's truth"
    "I have no clue"
    "My gut tells me..." or "In my gut"


    There are a few more but I'm having a brain fart.. I'll have to listen to the interviews again to refresh my memory
     
  5. ynotdivein

    ynotdivein Retired WS Staff

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    Good point.

    "absolutely" comes to mind.

    Just found this site and have been raptly reading ever since:
    http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopathy_aspd_sociopathy.htm

    Touches on but doesn't delve into language-specific issues in sociopathy. Illuminating nonetheless...

    " Hare assessed "Al," a middle-aged man with 46 convictions for criminal acts from drugs to bank robbery. Using a neurological diagnostic test to eliminate obvious brain damage, Hare's team then gave Al tests that measure the processing of language. The question under investigation was whether or not there is something measurably different about the brain of a person who has been so socially deviant.

    In a clinical interview, Al admitted to being extraordinarily good at lying; said he was never diagnosed as hyperactive; grew up in a violent area of Vancouver, BC, in Canada; and recalled incidents in which he had acted out in anger or in irrational ways, just to prove something about his macho self-image. He felt no concern for his victims, he says, or any remorse.

    By the time he was 15, he was in prison, where he mingled with hardcore prisoners. He became more sensitive to how others treated him, and more reactive. He ended up stabbing someone.

    Hare first tested Al on a dichotic listening device, through which words came to him via alternating ears. The results appeared to be consistent with the evidence that psychopaths may not process words primarily by left hemisphere activity, but instead involve both hemispheres equally.

    The next test was even more revealing. Al watched different words come onto a monitor screen. Some of the words were generally considered to have emotional associations and others were considered neutral. Whereas most people respond more quickly to emotional words, Al's response time was the same to both emotional and neutral words.

    "The impetus for this research," Hare says for the documentary, "is the clinical observation that psychopaths can say one thing and do something else. This has perplexed a lot of people. Is it simply lying, dissimulation, or hypocrisy? Probably not. There's more than that involved in it."
     
  6. Dear Prudence

    Dear Prudence New Member

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    Fascinating topic esiobhan. All of the Anthonys seem to speak in incomplete sentences and seem to jump from one thought to the next with no coherent transition. If you watch the early interviews of Cindy it is obvious that she's always been like this. There is one early video of Cindy on Greta Van Sustren's show when Cindy gives like a 5 minute answer to Greta's first question, but never seems to really answer the question.

    I do think it is indicative of sociopaths and also pathological liars. I have family members that are both IMO, and when I am listening to them ramble on and on I tend to not be able to process what they are telling me. Then later when I'm able to replay it slowly in my mind I can pinpoint all the descrepancies. It's very frustrating to me because I wish I could process their BS in real time and respond.

    Casey and Cindy most definitely seem to exhibit this kind of lying sociopathic speech habits to me.
     
  7. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

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    They are very good at manipulating words and word meanings. This is called pathological glibness or semantic dementia. Sociopaths/psychopaths have a very shallow understanding of some word meanings especially when they have to do with emotional terms. Their words are spoken in a manner to be intentionally deceptive. By warping reality to deceive others, the sociopath/psychopath is also dissociating any feelings of guilty about his/her antisocial behavior. Read this: The Language of the Psychopath
    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...JjotQ0&sig=AHIEtbQxJ4GvszyCOtbtC14iupn4CyD5xw
     
  8. Horace Finklestein

    Horace Finklestein New Member

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    THere is a lot of fluff/filler in their interviews. CA is a master of redirecting/ignoring a question and going off on a tangent and that says a lot to me. It's like
    "Mrs. Anthony what color is the sky"
    "Ya know what? I'm not here to talk about that blah blah blah." There is no point in people interviewing her. I truly feel sorry for the ZFG suing Casey. It must have been frustrating to have been so disrespected. The trial will be VERY interesting. I foresee either endless stalling/fencing with prosecution from a very very prepared CA or maybe a complete meltdown. I know Ashton will not be cowed by Cindy. She even stated in a letter that she had to leave as Mr. Ashton recounted Caylee's final moments (truth hurts!). Some time, at some point on some glorious day, CA will have to answer for herself and will not be able to simply sneer at the person asking questions and refuse to cooperate. HHJP should have moved the trial date up imo.
     
  9. Amil

    Amil New Member

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    The definition of a psychopathic swindler in the above article is so classic KC.
     
  10. affinity

    affinity New Member

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    fascinating question! The Anthonys (all of them) have acted as if they are in some sort of movie. It makes me feel that none of them know one another at all. George, Lee and KC have gotten through life pretty much on attractiveness alone. CA is not as attractive as the others, so she has been the workhorse....but even she easily falls into the "movie role" at any given opportunity. Look how easily they rolled right into becoming overnight missing children "experts" and began the "Foundation". In the recent letters CA fancies KC becoming a lawyer! I don't know who told this family that they could be "anything"..but they all seem to have grandiose ideas about their contributions to the world. I swear, CA even thinks SHE is a lawyer now! (complaining in her letter to KC about how Lyon and Baez aren't doing something right legally). I am just so thankful I don't really know them. They are all such know it alls. Imagine breaking your leg. CA would want to do the surgery. Seriously..they are ALL Borderline Personality
    Disordered...at the very very least.
     
  11. Zoe Bogart

    Zoe Bogart Let's not ask for the Moon, we have the Stars

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    While I'm no professional on sociopathic behavior or anything of the sort, I can attest that sociopaths do tend to use extra words. Average liars (not sociopaths) do the same. Using words such as absolutely, positively, etc., they think makes their professions sound more truthful. When a simple, "yes" or "no" says all that is needed, they will instead say, "absolutely yes" or extend it to something like, "yes, I believe her 100%, more than 100%". They believe the added words are more convincing.

    You'll see these added words or enhanced statements which don't really answer questions with presidents, governors, senators, mayors, kings, queens, etc. If you really want to do a study, read statements from various political bigwigs in times of personal trouble. Real eye openers. Notice how they skirt the issue at hand.

    I recently studied the book "I Know You Are Lying", which I've hidden from myself, so I can't state the author offhand. It's quite enlightening about how people lie by stating some of the truth but not telling the whole truth.

    I've known several pathological liars in my lifetime (don't know if many were sociopaths) and I've heard it all. It's intriguing to hear them embellish a story for no ascertainable reason. I've often called them on it, only to get a very unpleasant stare.

    The Anthonys have an ulterior motive, however, to save face and to save their daughter. Nothing else matters, not even Caylee.
     
  12. countzero

    countzero self timeout

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    When they answer my question with a question I know the lies will begin spouting.:banghead:
     
  13. affinity

    affinity New Member

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    I have always had a problem with what can be called "hero-worship". I don't know where it came from, but I still struggle with it to some extent. Maybe all people do, but it has "degrees". So, (by way of explanation) I would alternately love and hate my (then) husband. I made him into a God at times with my assessment of his attributes. Then, when we broke up I (naturally) hated him..over time, however, I began idolizing him again in my head (undoubtedly because of the "habit" of doing so for many years and also because of his absence). My point is that it borders on comical that CA HATED KC (clearly!) but then Caylee is however sacrificed and CA then loooovvvves KC and turns her into Joan of Arc! She just HATED her prior to Caylee's death and now she adores her. All KC had to do to win CA over is cause the death of her own child. I can identify (oddly) with this bizarre idolizing hero-worship thing. Would I lovvvvvve my ex h if he wound up in a prison accused of some hard-to-believe crime? MAYBE! I am definitely capable of lying to myself.

    Perhaps families engage in it in order to process the unthinkable. After two years, however, one would think that CA would come to her senses. She's moving farther into her "acceptable" explanations.
    In the beginning GA said something along the lines of not being able to bear losing both of his girls. They aren't able to fathom that that has already happened..they lost KC somewhere in High School and they were too busy with their own dramas to notice.

    Sorry, I went off on a tangent that has little to do with speech patterns. But I am continually amazed at the level of lying a family can participate in...in the name of "love". Me included.
     
  14. ynotdivein

    ynotdivein Retired WS Staff

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    Very RSBM
    As are we all. But I don't think Cindy has the capability for self-awareness and ability to self-analyze her own inner landscape that you displayed, for example, in your first paragraph. There is too much shame hidden somewhere in that woman to allow her to engage in the dangerous but necessary psychological task of self-reflection.

    Shirley P knows her daughter to a "T": Excerpts from Shirley P Interview August 21, 2008:

    Yuri Melich: …my concern is, and I’m sure you’ve heard her on the news, and you’ve heard her, you know, her stories have changed from, from the day that she first talked to me… That night when I had to call her and tell her that her daughter was being arrested, her story from that day changed up until today. It’s become progressively to help…

    SP: Defend her.

    YM: …Casey and defend Casey.

    SP: You know what? She’s (i.e., Cindy's)out of control for one reason. If she doesn’t believe Casey then Caylee’s dead. Honest to God that’s my feeling. If she could not believe Casey, believe in Casey, she’d have to accept the fact that Cay… Caylee might be dead, or would be dead, or whatever. That’s, that’s the honest to God feeling I got and I’ve had it since she got out of control. [END OF SNIPPED INTERVIEW]

    What's interesting is that later in the interview (pg. 19) Shirley is asked if she ever confronted Casey or Cindy about Casey's pregnancy after Rick's wedding, and she says that she did not. She noticed it, she wondered about it, she thought Cindy as a nurse surely should have known. But she didn't put it on the table to talk about. Can you imagine--maybe not confronting her granddaughter Casey about it and risk ruining Rick's wedding day--but NEVER ONCE after that day so much as MENTIONING it to her daughter Cindy? Are we seeing a pattern here? This type of avoidance is generational, learned behavior.

    Agreed, esp. with the part I bolded above. Not-facing the truth is something that we all engage in to some extent. But CA is stuck in and with her fabricated reality to an unhealthy degree.

    Now I am thinking of a way to link this back to speech patterns. :waitasec: :blushing: :angel:

    ETA: Got it--esiobhan, awesome job and congratulations on your first thread! Great topic--and as communicative as KC & co. are, we will have plenty of fodder for analysis for the foreseeable future.
     
  15. affinity

    affinity New Member

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    it's even more interesting to contemplate how people talk with the sociopath--like another poster pointed out apparently it is nearly a requirement to tell KC that she is beautiful and/or "butter her up" in some way to hope to have any exchange with her at all.

    Not long ago on the GMA interview CA stated that they said "they would break her after 2 days, but she hasn't broken....because there is nothing to break." CA believes that a guilty person would have come clean by now because of the hardships. Therefore, CA surmises, KC is "innocent". No, Cindy--it means what we all know, KC creates her own reality. KC either rationalizes that it was an "accident" or she herself believes she did not do it. Part of me thinks KC is happy to be in jail--to finally be away (permanently) from her overbearing Mother.

    Sociopaths are constantly told how "bad" they are, and by adulthood, most of them believe it. And behave accordingly.
     
  16. Manny

    Manny New Member

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    What I remember most from my abnormal psychology classes is that sociopaths do mimic and they also have really good reality contact. Much better than most people. Somehow I do not see Casey in that classification. She was very young for her age and I think lying had become a habit and a way to cope with her mother. It appears to me that she has very little reality contact, don't think she sees herself as others do at all. It is all bravado. I think she is very immature and has very little impulse control. Which is why she continually drove CA through the roof. Just my very uniformed opinion. :)

    ETA: I also remember the Dr who taught the class also mentioned that many socio's go on to become CEO's of huge companies.
     
  17. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    More food for thought and references from which to draw.

    Casey Speak ~ Casey Talk ~ Casey Code


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70260"]Casey's psychological profile - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69987"]Casey and Family... Psychological Profile #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76453"]Casey and Family... Psychological Profile #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78735"]Psychological Profile of Casey and Company #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72749"]Psychological profile of Anthony Family #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80287"]Insanity Plea and Complete Family Psych Profile #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84153"]Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity and Related Psych Profile #7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85681"]Family Psych profile #8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86156"]Family Psych Discussion #9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    Psych Profile #10
     
  18. Just Jayla

    Just Jayla New Member

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    Great article, it also addresses the issue of the psychopath wanting to be punished....I recalled KC's conversation with Appie Wells, she was anticipating her mother's wrath in particular.
     
  19. affinity

    affinity New Member

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    Remember when Lee is talking to KC about the police coming and how they will want answers?..apparently (according to Lee) KC says: "well, I guess it is time" --when I read that I was pretty astonished...and I can see KC just calmly saying that. The thing is..it is an admission of sorts, isn't it? It is time?? time for what?? Time to go to jail?..time to field questions about where Caylee is? Time to "deal" with her obnoxious "sttoopid" Mother (whom KC hates/hated). KC knew that she had 30+ days of freedom (Bella Vita!) but now the jig was up. "I guess it's time" says to me that KC knew the jig would be up one day and that day had (then) arrived. It's a very interesting choice of words.
     
  20. RR0004

    RR0004 New Member

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    Ah yes, Mr. Ashton's "opinion". Wondered why she used that word and didn't just say "words". I don't think she quite understands the fact that the State is representing the victim...her sweet granddaughter, Caylee.
     
  21. RR0004

    RR0004 New Member

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    Yup...you got the diagnosis right IMO.
     
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