South and Southwest

Discussion in 'Israel Keyes' started by bessie, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Snoopster

    Snoopster Well-Known Member

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    Great observations. I still think we need to be careful that we don't try to fit IK into every case. I am obsessed with him, but that doesn't mean he was responsible for every case that has some commonality. Unfortunately there are no shortage of 'bad guys'!

    This isn't a criticism (after all, I am the one who raised this possible connection) just a caution, perhaps mostly to me. What is that old expression? ..."if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

    But there are some coincidences that warrant further investigation!
     


  2. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    True, Lucky1.. Due to the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation's antiquated investigative strategy of silence, the serial killer that viciously murdered Skyla Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Placker, 13, in 2008 was tragically enabled to take another innocent victim; Ashley Taylor's life a few years later.. If not for the late Susan Murphy Milano; victim advocate, their murderer; serial killer Kevin Sweat, would likely still be active, imo..
    http://imaginepublicity.com/2011/10...ion-find-out-on-the-susan-murphy-milano-show/

    The Murders of Skyla Whitaker, Taylor Placker and Ashley Taylor..What’s the Connection?

    __________________________________________________________

    'Lucky1, The flare that Israel Keyes used to ignite his arson fires was one of his unique signatures'..Wondering if he was using flares in 2010 when the Pastor was murdered. Since the fire self extinguished, the ignition source should have been obvious to arson investigators. On the other hand, the botched arson may be why and when, IK began using the flares..
    _____________________________________

    http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/

    Israel Keyes. A "force of pure evil, acting at random," according to the U.S.


    Attorney for Vermont, Tristam Coffin. He shivered with adrenaline when recounting his crimes. "He liked what he was doing. He talked about getting a rush out of it, the adrenaline, the excitement," said FBI Special Agent Jolene Goeden. He burglarized houses across the country, between twenty and thirty total.

    He buried buckets and tool boxes, dubbed "murder kits" by the media, across the United States. They contained cable ties. Duct tape. Guns. Silencers. Flares. ("A handy way to start a fire," Keyes comments.) Other things to assist in abduction, murder, arson, robbery.
    Asked about motivation for his plethora of crimes, he explains, "(I)t's not so much why I did it, as why not?" (97)

    "There is no one who knows me – or who has ever known me – who knows anything about me, really... They're going to tell you something that does not line up with anything I tell you because I'm two different people basically."

    "How long have you been two different people?"
    Kevin Feldis, of the U.S. Attorney's Office asked.

    Israel chuckled. "Long time. Fourteen years."
     
  3. digndoodle

    digndoodle New Member

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    Snoopster, I am not putting Keyes to each person posted, but this one a lot more than some I have seen posted so far he said he picked small rural towns, usually stayed a day or two to get a feel of the people, and from this poor man that said he saw the person exit, to me Keyes loved planting phones and etc. in homeless areas I feel, I think he thought himself a much bigger person than those homeless and from all my searching and reading, he has family members all across the US and I just feel he probably traveled a lot on rural roads when he went to visit

    And believe me I am not obsessed with him, I have to actually say when I see his photo on various places I get nauseated at my stomach, he is in noway human to me...I PRAY this whole investigation soon comes to an end, but sadly if they truly follow through as they stated they would do, it may be a long process....I personally have my own IK story, mind and thoughts, victims and etc. but I said I would follow this until they officially close this case and I will as long as I have breath in me due to the fact I am waiting on 2 cases I feel so strong was IK...but then again I'm sure each one here has a similar story....but I have always said to break this case wide open it will have to be from family members, a best friend or from some group he was associated with, as he said "No-one actually knows the real me, No-One" and sadly that is not happening at all,perhaps because they too were stalked, threatened by this monster???
     
  4. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    Lots of helpful statements by IK and other info in this article, imo....When arrested, IK, began the Alaskan interrogations by the FBI, blaming his motives on satanism, if my memory is correct. The FBI was unconvinced of this revelation and discouraged IK from going down this path..

    Keyes rejected religion, says pastor to speak at serial killer's funeral

    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/12/06/2716078_keyes-rejected-religion-says-pastor.html#storylink=cpy
     
  5. Snoopster

    Snoopster Well-Known Member

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    Oh, digndoodle, please don't take my comments personally!! You likely "know" IK better than anyone here! Between you, foxfire and lucky1, I don't think anyone can get a better feel for this guy.

    My comments were truly related to my natural tendency to see IK in every case I look at now. :scared:

    Please keep up the great work!!

    :seeya:
     
  6. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    IMO, IK, if responsible for the brutal stabbing murder of Pastor Carol Daniels, would not have posed the body in the crucifix position, virtually decapitate her, and stab her multiple times/overkill, and was not an impulsive act of opportunity. All info provided would indicate a very well planned and executed ritual killing in a cult like dark angel/grim reaper fashion, to send a message, imo.. The demonic creature that did this would have monitored the media coverage, imo..
    Just thought it interesting that Azrael, also spelled Azriel, Azrail, Azraille, Azra’eil, Ezra'il, Ezraeil, Izrail, Izrael, and Ozryel, happens to be the Angel of Death...
     
  7. digndoodle

    digndoodle New Member

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    Snoopster, I didn't take it personally, but I know some things that cannot be posted on here is why I jump sometimes and blurt out things I should keep to myself and that is a bad thing on my part. lol

    I do not begin to understand all of IK, not at all but all my thinking kinda goes by a lot he said in released conversations with investigators..guess I'm a go back several times and make sure you caught a word or sentence type of person.....This was all a game to him even the killings but to me he was a big coward inside...that may sound really strange but in some dark way he was truly a coward, My little IK story so far is I definitely think something "stunk" in his early life, I cannot understand any mother that has only 2 kids at the time having a babysitter, she did not work a job and in one of the 1st known releasing a lady comes forth and states she was the Keye's babysitter with the 2 kids...There was someone in that home that just was not right, not blaming anyone in the family but it's too obvious to me....I have looked at some early year crimes back in the 70's on up and they are almost identical to what we know of IK...If it wasn't for the year these people went missing I would just shake my head in disgust...too close for comfort in my thinking and then 2 of his sisters were known to rebel along with Keyes...Must have been a horribly strict home in some way. and moving a family all across the US at different intervals???...That is strange in it's ownself in my thinking, the father was only a handy-man-carpenter and I'm sure his job would not have caused him to just uproot this family several times. Keyes is athiests yet his GF is interested in "religion"???....Guess it may be true opposites attract.

    Keyes had a huge amount of resentment inside I feel, he was quick to anger, was a known alcoholic..he said he had to drink each day to live with all he had done, yet said to be a good father, very good carpenter, he excelled in his known work but he was only home schooled...I have to wonder if this is why he hated people with big time jobs? in his suicide note, he said similar to "Go get in your fancy car, drive it on roads of dinasour bones, click in your timeclock, sit on your a88 and play games on your phone all day" and he talked about buying things people don't need, spending too much money. He was brought up in a cabin with no lights nor running water, very few people lived in the area he did while a child, his family did not believe in public schools, I just feel there is a deep resentment right in the midst of all of this, as far as I can understand he never owned a house except the run-down property in Constable N.Y. and I think the father owned it before and then gave it to IK at age 18 or 19.....The Alaskan home was owned by his GF

    I just think while reading and searching it is important to not have a closed mind on possible victims, as Lucky1 found his zig-zagging out west...Why would a person do this???.....he was a very complex animal I think and as I have said before, I feel there will be some victims we have not even thought about that will be brought out by FBI, yet I feel there will be a lot linked to Keyes that the FBI never gave 1 thought too..but this is all just moo
     
  8. digndoodle

    digndoodle New Member

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    Foxfire are you saying that you don't feel IK would place a victim in a crucifix position??.....I have to disagree here if so, If he entered that church and she began to witness to him, I can see he would have flew into a mad raged fit similar to the one at his sister's wedding in Well's Texas...they finally just dismissed the wedding and went outside to the reception...that sounds like Keyes threw a rage fit to me inside the church
    If this was IK, I'm sure the Pastor tried to defend herself from this monster, therefore making the killer make various wounds and different places on the body, I think she knew she had surely met the devil face to face and that would have been the angel of death for sure
    Don't you think if he did this crime, he was following media coverage and that might be why he told authorities he had thought about taking the Curriers to an abandoned church, but he could not find one in Essex that fit his MO, then went on to talk about that was in his future plannings, killing in the church, either burning it down or leaving the victims body to let the members come in and find it.....and then he Laughed as he always does...YUK
     
  9. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    No, on the contrary, Digndoodle, I feel that although there are many deviant demonic creatures that are capable of the Pastor's murder. Few have the means, motive, or opportunity, as did IK. From known info, I feel confident that IK was responsible for the Pastor's ritual murder..
     
  10. Lucky 1

    Lucky 1 not all those who wander are lost....

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    April 6 audio interview:

    He mentions that Lorraine Currier will not have any clothing with or on her, Bill still had his shorts. (I'm thinking about the fact that Carol Daniels was also found nude....)

    He points out the Lowes near the Currier's home, says he bought large trash bags on his credit card.

    Claims he got a fishing license and fished for a couple of days in VT and the night he planned to leave he went walking around and "took" the Curriers that night.

    Either the April 5th or 6th interview he states:
    "I am only gonna give you the dots that I know you are gonna eventually connect."
     
  11. Snoopster

    Snoopster Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I think we can trust from what IK said, was that he sexually assaulted both SK and LC, his only known female victims. I believe that sexual assault was an important component to him.

    We don't know if Carol Daniels was sexually assaulted. I would love to know. If she wasn't, then I don't think it was IK.

    IK told LE that he didn't want the information about the sexual assaults and 'what he did to the bodies' to become public information. I really wonder what he did to the bodies. We know he dismembered Samantha.
     
  12. digndoodle

    digndoodle New Member

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    http://www.viralnova.com/black-man-vs-white-supremacists/

    I know the above link has nothing to do with this discussion, but is a very good example of white sujpremacists and how they are slowly working in the small western towns, this way they are less noticed when they decide to do their dirty work...IK was supposedly a white supremacists and attended the church in Colville and was seen at the AN meeting while a teenager

    Personally I do not think Keyes will have any victims that are not white, FBI may prove me wrong but this just seems to be his beliefs and also remember they are taught that the Jews of today are from the devil, they are satan's spawn or workers., sadly not only in these small west towns is this going on, some of these beliefs still are carried on in the deep deep South

    Snoopster, sadly they have never released if the victim was sexually assaulted, but back on page 1 of this forum they did release that when a body is positioned in a pose, that is a reason for doing this and also the cuts on her breast....and I personally feel IK will be known to have done some horrible things to his bodies..seems that was the main reason he did not want the public to know, I feel he knew he would be looked at not only as a serial killer, but a very bad sexual pervert also
     
  13. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    Couple of observations: Pastor Carol Daniels 61 found murdered inside her church, 8/24/09(Incorrect date)

    August 23, 2009 was a Sunday...Pastor was murdered 08/23/2009.. Her body was discovered around noon Sunday, Aug. 23, 2009.
    August 24, 2009 the Anadarko Daily News; the local newspaper burned to the ground. Origination of the Fire was determined to be the Bar next door..

    "The perp wasn't caught on the security of the convenience store that caught the Pastor entering her Church that Sunday morning.. If the perp entered from the rear of the building under the cloak of darkness and lay in wait for her. The camera should have caught him leaving, unless he had scouted the church prior for nearby security cameras"..

    <sniped & BBM>
    FIRE DESTROYS ANADARKO DAILY NEWS
    http://www.okpress.com/Websites/okpress/Files/Content/578422/September09Publisher.pdf

    The foremost concern
    on Carolyn McBride&#8217;s
    mind Saturday, Aug. 24, as
    she watched the The Anadarko Daily News building
    burn to a husk
    was how she
    and her staff would publish
    Monday&#8217;s edition.
    McBride, co-publisher
    of The Daily News along
    with her husband Joe, is no
    stranger to disaster. It was
    only in May that a tornado
    came through Anadarko
    and ripped the roof off of
    the building.
    While firemen from
    four counties worked to
    save businesses connected
    to The Daily News and
    adjacent bar where the fire
    started
    ,

    Monday&#8217;s edition started with just enough material for a front page, said
    McBride. The top story
    was the horrific murder of
    Pastor Carol Daniels whose
    body was found Sunday in
    a local church. The second
    story was the fire at the
    newspaper


    ________________________________________________________
     
  14. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    The above date on the Fire at the Anadarko Daily News was also inaccurate: "IMO, it was possibly torched as a distraction from the Pastor's murder 3 blocks away....

    http://newsok.com/anadarko-daily-ne...article/3394931?custom_click=lead_story_photo

    Anadarko Daily News editor Carolyn McBride watches newsroom burn
    Aaron Crespo &#8226; Published: August 23, 2009
    ANADARKO &#8212; Carolyn McBride stood near the back of her family&#8217;s business on Saturday and watched it burn.
    McBride, editor of the Anadarko Daily News, said the newsprint at her family&#8217;s paper was the last thing to burn as crews worked to put out the fire that destroyed her business and a neighboring bar in downtown Anadarko.

    Investigations begin
    Fire crews responded to the fire about 5 a.m. to fight the flames, which destroyed the Tornado Alley Bar and the Anadarko Daily News office, according to a release sent by the Anadarko Police Department. McBride said it started in the bar and spread.
    Paul Hinchey, Anadarko&#8217;s assistant fire chief, said the fire was mostly out by 8:30 a.m. A cause of the fire has not been determined, and the state fire marshal has been called in to investigate.

    _________________________________________________________

    http://newsok.com/in-downtown-anadarko-a-double-dose-of-bad-news/article/3395444

    ANADARKO &#8212; Old editions dating to the early 1900s are ashes. Desktop computers were melted. . The paper and a bar next door were destroyed in a fire Saturday in Anadarko. The paper and a bar next door were destroyed in a fire Saturday in Anadarko.
    But what wasn&#8217;t lost in the fire that ravaged the offices of The Anadarko Daily News early Saturday was important news that only a community paper provides.

    Only in The Anadarko Daily News will you find:

    "Sunny Pals,&#8221; a list of of Anadarko Public Schools students in prekindergarten through first grade achieving perfect attendance.
    The Anadarko and Fort Cobb "Yards of the Month.&#8221;
    And, Thursday&#8217;s list of "Powwows and Handgames.&#8221;

    "That paper is the livelihood of the community&#8221; said George Salamy, owner of George&#8217;s Department Store in Anadarko for about 60 years. "How would people know what was going on in the county if they didn&#8217;t put it in print for us?&#8221;

    Flames also devoured the Tornado Alley bar.
     
  15. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    Article Photos: In downtown Anadarko, a double dose of bad news
    (.38-caliber pistol found read more)

    Slain preacher's body was in staged position, Anadarko investigator said
    Oklahoma City pastor found slain in Anadarko
    The fire investigation

    The state fire marshal&#8217;s office is not ready to say whether arson is suspected in the Saturday fire that destroyed The Anadarko Daily News and Tornado Alley bar.

    "We know that it started near the back of the bar in the area of an electrical panel, but we have not determined how it was caused,&#8221; fire marshal spokeswoman JoAnne Sellars said Monday.
    Investigators said the fire was discovered at the bar about 5 a.m., three hours after it closed.

    "There was heavy smoke reported when firefighters arrived,&#8221; Sellars said. "They made entry but had to back out due to the thick smoke.&#8221;
    _________________________

    Carolyn McBride, editor of The Anadarko Daily News, said she arrived at the fire about 5:30 a.m. Saturday.

    She and husband Joe McBride Jr., co-publishers, were just north of the newspaper building in a park near when she looked down and saw a gun. McBride said she flagged down a police officer, Sgt. Charles Pendarvis, and he took possession of the .38-caliber pistol. She said she does not think the gun had any relevance to the fire.

    Johnny Johnson and Robert Medley, Staff Writers
    http://newsok.com/in-downtown-anadarko-a-double-dose-of-bad-news/article/3395444
     
  16. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    Prolly unrelated, but since IK studied other serial killers. Would IK, have also studied those responsible for bringing serial killers to Justice?
    Just thought this an interesting coincidence/parallel: World renowned crime author, and homicide investigation expert Vernon J. Geberth, who consulted in Pastor Carol Daniels' horrific murder, is the author of "the Bible" of homicide investigations", used by investigators across the USA..

    Curriculum Vitae: Vernon J. Geberth
    http://www.practicalhomicide.com/AboutPHI/cv.htm#editor


    Crime Expert Analyzes Clues From Anadarko Pastor's Murder
    http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11009040
    ________________________________________________

    Daniels Alaskan Peace Officer&#8217;s Association (A.P.O.A.) 50th Annual 2011 Crime Conference, Anchorage, Alaska
    May 16 - 20, 2011
    Child Death Investigation Workshop Monday, May 16, 2011 8:30 AM to 2:30 PM. Workshop Chair: Dr. Michael Illiescu, MD
    Conducted a Three-Day Advanced Practical Homicide Investigation® for attendees May 17-20, 2011
    http://www.practicalhomicide.com/AboutPHI/cv.htm#editor
    __________________________________________
    IK, revealed to investigators prior to the Currier Murders(VT-06/08/2011) that he had considered taking victims to a church, where he would either simply leave the body to be found, or to burn the church down with the victim's body in it. IK, drove around in Vermont, looking for suitable churches in small towns. He had issues with organized religion. IK was forensically aware; used drano to speed up the decomposition of remains, removed victim's clothing, and would likely use bleach on the bodies for destroying DNA.

    __________________________________________
    6/2/2011: Anchorage to Chicago, IL
    Flew from Anchorage, AK to Chicago, IL on 6/2/2011.
    Rented a vehicle
    .

    6/5 -8, 2011: Essex, VT
    Arrived on 6/5/2011 and checked into the Handy Suites motel for a three day stay.

    June 8, 2011: Keyes flew from Anchorage to Chicago on June 2, 2011. He rented a car and drove to Essex, Vermont. On June 8, 2011, Keyes admitted to the abduction and murder of Bill and Lorraine Currier. Keyes disposed of a weapon stolen from the Currier home and the gun he used to shoot Bill Currier in Blakes River Falls Reservoir. These weapons and a nearby cache were recovered by the FBI. Following the murder, Keyes traveled around the east coast before driving back to Chicago. On June 15, 2011, Keyes flew from Chicago to San Francisco, only staying one night, returning to Anchorage on June 16, 2011.

    6/8/2011: Killed Bill and Lorraine Currier
    32 Upper Main St, Essex VT 2011

    betw. 6/8 - 15, 2011: Maine
    After killing the Curriers in VT on 6/8/2011, he visited his parents in Maine.
     
  17. Lucky 1

    Lucky 1 not all those who wander are lost....

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    Wow Foxfire! Those are some great finds! :thumb: Imagine that, a big fire less than 24 hrs before a preacher is murdered in a church on the same block.....that is a great big coincidence IMO.

    And the fire started in the bar around 5 am, from the electrical panel. Hmmmm. Who would we know who would know exactly how to make that happen....:waitasec:
     
  18. Lucky 1

    Lucky 1 not all those who wander are lost....

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    I've started listening to the audio recordings again Snoopster, and in the early April ones he mentions several times about how he doesn't want the media to start dissecting his "motivations". That was how he started talking about it originally....later on he talks about what he did to the bodies. I really feel his motivation is the key to figuring out large parts of this, because I think there is a central theme to who he chose to stalk/kidnap/murder - which would help narrow down other victims. I really don't think there was any profile for the single males (other than opportunity) or prostitutes (I feel certain they didn't meet up with him and walk away fine).

    I've wondered if the arson he did in Aledo was actually one of his stalking victims. The news article about it says she lived alone but was out visiting relatives at the time of the fire. I've wondered if he stopped, found she wasn't there and chose to burn the house down because of it.....kinda like BTK and Anna Williams. I know BTK didn't burn her house down, but he was very angry that she wasn't there......
     
  19. ISpy101

    ISpy101 New Member

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    BBM - in reference to the above bolded, those are great points Lucky - :tyou: - I think a lot of it must stem from his chiidhood and being banned from his community - it's like when someone has a void to fill and they shop to compulsion or work out for two hours every day on the stairmaster - it's something to me about a void that he felt about what happened with how his family treated him - I'm just thinking out loud here but maybe the dates of his crimes and the locations he picked meant something to him - like maybe some family functions he couldn't go to on those dates and that's what spurred it - IIRC he went to his grandmothers birthday in California - but I think many of his brothers and sisters didn't keep in touch with him IIRC - some may have - but not most of them - AIR and Memory
     
  20. Lucky 1

    Lucky 1 not all those who wander are lost....

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Mr-Hyde-Alaska-serial-killer-took-grave.html
     

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