Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4
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Midwestmom2019
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Boring conclusion, isn’t it? But please share what you think about it being an atypical missing in the mountains case. What leads any of us to think it’s not an accident or spouse? Do you think the LE in the van at night is a red herring? Any locals on board? Or familiar with Pyrenees mountaineering?
Hi midwestermom2019,
Benjamin Franklin reminds me to: "Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment."
RedHaus
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I love that quote, @Puzzles! So back to our search area discussion...
FWIW, here is the map from the LBT Global / DC dossier depicting the vast search area as reported to DC by SARs - including the Maladeta Glacier. I have also included a link to Google Maps for the same area that you can mouse around to check out. ZaZara had first provided that Google Map link back on Thread #2...
click on image to expandSource of Image: https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf
Google Maps of Area: Google Maps
Midwestmom2019
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Huge search area.
ETA: I’m catching up on the story. Will listen to the video before commenting again. Can anyone point me to the threads/ posts where he’s been cleared is first mentioned? For an in depth description of the “clearance”?
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I remember there have been a discussion about Esther wearing dark clothes during her hike, and that making her difficult to spot from a helicopter. This rescue of an Italian man in the Alps shows the importance of having something easily noticable from above, if suffering an accident outdoors, in this case a foil blanket.
Alps hiker survives seven icy nights after fall in Italy
Alps hiker survives seven icy nights after fall in Italy
RickshawFan
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As we go forward, I think we have to take into consideration that much of this huge territory will have been scanned by drones, helicopter, and maybe infrared. But much is inaccessible or could only be examined closely from the ground.
ED will have been most visible on a glacier or snow patch. This might have been the reason why the glacier was a top priority search. Sure, ED may well have gone up the glacier, but that was also a practical place to search in December.
Midwestmom2019
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Correct me if I’m wrong:
She left about 4:00 pm after calls, video and some social media. Walking down towards the overnight shelter with no login book. About an hour away. Enough time to hike if sure footed and careful. Get there, stay the night and leave in am. She thought no connectivity. And not too far from roadway access. The police said no reason to think she spent the night there, or no evidence of her being there be. I’m thinking between her last communication and that shelter, is where she was lost/hurt/abducted. The road being within a rather short hiking distance, leads me to suspect person or persons unknown parked their vehicle, came up from the roadway, and met her on the trail. From there? I don’t know. But before I go looking at the map and draw lines, let me know if this is even remotely a possibility?
ETA: Who knew where on the trail she would be at 4:30 pm on the 22nd? With no way to summon assistance bc there was no connectivity until she crossed back over the border?
She left about 4:00 pm after calls, video and some social media. Walking down towards the overnight shelter with no login book. About an hour away. Enough time to hike if sure footed and careful. Get there, stay the night and leave in am. She thought no connectivity. And not too far from roadway access. The police said no reason to think she spent the night there, or no evidence of her being there be. I’m thinking between her last communication and that shelter, is where she was lost/hurt/abducted. The road being within a rather short hiking distance, leads me to suspect person or persons unknown parked their vehicle, came up from the roadway, and met her on the trail. From there? I don’t know. But before I go looking at the map and draw lines, let me know if this is even remotely a possibility?
ETA: Who knew where on the trail she would be at 4:30 pm on the 22nd? With no way to summon assistance bc there was no connectivity until she crossed back over the border?
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The_Investigator
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Fabulous ! It’s so simple that it’s what I’m beginning to conclude. Her behaviour we have previously examined points to this. Final video call to partner, final calls to mom and call to dad. Final bogus plans related to all, then back down the way she came to meet the arranged person and arranged plans, what ever that was? But he/she didn’t just meet her as arranged for a rendevous, he/she had OTHER plans for Ester?
Midwestmom2019
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Agreed.
What I did forget to mention is whether LE disclosed the locations of dropped bottles, garbage and gloves? I’d like to exclude those paths. She was known to pick up after litterbugs so she would not have trekked those trails.
RedHaus
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Yes, Yes! @The_Investigator and @Midwestmom2019. This is one theory that has been explored ad nauseum here. We call this the voluntary disappearance (meaning she had other plans than the ones she shared with DC) with a third party that went terribly wrong (or perhaps 'right', if we think she is still alive and incognito).
I know it is a pain in the tookus, but I encourage anyone new to this discussion - as I once was - to go back to Thread #1, Post #1 and assimilate all the ground covered.
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Midwestmom2019
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I’ve gone back to thread one, post one and read 1/3 of the first thread. Not much that is different than what I assumed when I first dropped in on this #4 thread. But I’ll continue to review the remaining threads and posts.
RedHaus
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So I spent some time analyzing the dossier again, especially the last text messages / communication on 22/11 that DC shared in the dossier, recognizing there is likely a lot of information missing, like DC's texts. IMO, explanations for ED's apparent ambiguity or confusion during her last known communication (in order of probability) are:
1. ED was in a mental crisis of some sort (exhaustion, mal-nutrition, depression, illness, etc.) and thus mentally ill-equipped for her trek - an accident waiting to happen
2. ED was in a suicidal trance (a form of dissociation as she was simultaneously focused on executing a plan she had devised to end her life, perhaps that evening)
3. ED was intentionally vague and obtuse with DC because she had other plans entirely (i.e. meeting up with a third party, executing voluntary disappearance, or both)
4. ED was transitioning into a dissociative fugue state like Hannah Upp (able to execute these motor functions but not making complete sense and appearing confused)
Here is my analysis - if anything, I am hoping it might spark some new ideas from the many brilliant minds here... feel free to add to, dismiss, etc. this analysis.
click on image to enlarge to full size
1. ED was in a mental crisis of some sort (exhaustion, mal-nutrition, depression, illness, etc.) and thus mentally ill-equipped for her trek - an accident waiting to happen
2. ED was in a suicidal trance (a form of dissociation as she was simultaneously focused on executing a plan she had devised to end her life, perhaps that evening)
3. ED was intentionally vague and obtuse with DC because she had other plans entirely (i.e. meeting up with a third party, executing voluntary disappearance, or both)
4. ED was transitioning into a dissociative fugue state like Hannah Upp (able to execute these motor functions but not making complete sense and appearing confused)
Here is my analysis - if anything, I am hoping it might spark some new ideas from the many brilliant minds here... feel free to add to, dismiss, etc. this analysis.
click on image to enlarge to full sizePeggyHenry
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Thanks Redhaus it’s always good to see the information available presented in a fresh manner. I am tending towards the possibility of options 1 and 3.
An accident always remains a possibility for the reasons you describe in option 1 .
I don’t think she reached the refuge ( unless a third party made it their business to remove evidence) and I believe she may have encountered someone deliberately or accidentally. Who knew where she was likely to be? The SAR found no trace that we know of and there were roads not so far away. Is her body concealed in the mountains or lake? By a third party? Possibly. There were fellow hikers around.. she was not alone on the mountain.
She sent a selfie to DC at approx 4 pm on 22nd. This time it was just to DC and not posted on Instagram as it was on the previous day. She was limiting the availability of her whereabouts. The selfie shows her looking healthy and happy as far as one can tell from a selfie. We all know that it doesn’t mean she felt good inside but surely it’s an indication.
An accident always remains a possibility for the reasons you describe in option 1 .
I don’t think she reached the refuge ( unless a third party made it their business to remove evidence) and I believe she may have encountered someone deliberately or accidentally. Who knew where she was likely to be? The SAR found no trace that we know of and there were roads not so far away. Is her body concealed in the mountains or lake? By a third party? Possibly. There were fellow hikers around.. she was not alone on the mountain.
She sent a selfie to DC at approx 4 pm on 22nd. This time it was just to DC and not posted on Instagram as it was on the previous day. She was limiting the availability of her whereabouts. The selfie shows her looking healthy and happy as far as one can tell from a selfie. We all know that it doesn’t mean she felt good inside but surely it’s an indication.
“She sent a selfie to DC at approx 4 pm on 22nd. This time it was just to DC and not posted on Instagram as it was on the previous day. She was limiting the availability of her whereabouts.”
That’s the first time it has made sense ... I’ve never thought of it like that.
That’s the first time it has made sense ... I’ve never thought of it like that.
IrisElizabeth
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Excellent analysis @RedHaus especially pointing out the video phone call aspect - if someone was having a conversation with someone by text, to my mind the only reason you'd suddenly switch to a phone call would be if there was something not quite right with what the other person was saying, or if something they had texted had worried you.
This is a brilliant presentation of the outstanding work you're doing, @RedHaus.
For me, what stands out the most is at the bottom left of your analysis, in red, where you describe why ED's statement she "might dip into France" is a particularly bizarre detail.
What can explain it?
Does it indicate ED was experiencing a very confused +/or fragile mental state, or was she preoccupied with something other than texting DC, perhaps the presence of another person?
Or?
Midwestmom2019
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Might dip into France tells me there was no confirmed route. She could have walked off in a totally different direction. No one knows where she was on the mountain. Maybe that’s why she could not be found.
We've done all we can, say police hunting for missing hiker | Daily Mail Online
Just more of the same really. Curious about the CCTV between the mountains mentioned by the French police.
Just more of the same really. Curious about the CCTV between the mountains mentioned by the French police.
PeggyHenry
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yes. Just read equivalent in Times and the gist was that the French have no indication that she was/ is in France so can go no further until searches resume April to July time. However the Spanish police remain tight lipped regarding their own investigation.
So it looks like she is either somewhere waiting to be found in the mountains or exited ( voluntarily or against her will ) on the Spanish side.