Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with this theory.

    ED is engaged in an activity and in an area, where Dan has experience. We know she has been continually extending her trip. Your theory that he might head out, looking for her seems likely to me. He may even have been thinking that she just needed to be with him to be convinced to come home....since texts and phone calls IMO were not working.
     
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  2. eriningles

    eriningles Member

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    But if that were true, why hasn’t he told us he went looking on his own before finally reporting her missing? I don’t believe that can be true because he would have told us. No reason not too... It would only show how much he cared, so I don’t think it could have occurred. JMO
     
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  3. sundaaaay

    sundaaaay Well-Known Member

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    I agree and the most obvious thing that has happened to ED is an accident, likely in a location which is unexpected, probably due to a change of plan, and this could be the reason she has not been found. With a lot of other hiking missing person cases it is my understanding that a lot of these went missing in more remote and confusing landscapes, with poorly laid out or confusing routes or harsh weather conditions. This is not the case here. ED was well able to navigate this terrain in these conditions. I also find some things about her case different, which open up other possibilities of what could have happened.
    • Her reliance on others, ED asking other hikers for food (DC plays it down but I still consider it unusual), her approachability to strangers in general and lack of concern over the dangers of hitch hiking
    • Relationship problems, it's obvious was not all rosy when she went missing
    • The ease of the hike. This is not considered a particularly dangerous hike, it looks remote but it is not. There were shelters on both side of the valley. There is phone signal on the French side.
    • She seems to have been well prepared in terms of equipment
    • A lone female hiking at the location and time she went missing could have been a target of a sexual attack
    MOO
     
  4. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    DC might have his own reasons for not telling the public. For instance, under COVID rules in France, IIRC he was supposed to be stopping in place. Recall, too, there is much left out of the dossier including his (many) conversations with ED; there is likely a reason for excluding them.
    He may have told LE he was in the area, and they don't care, don't think it's significant, or don't want to mention it. They have already had flak for looking for someone (ED) who intended to flout the law. Why would they publicize it?
    ******
    On a separate topic, I can't think why ED would have registered with LE in Benasque that she would be gone hiking for a few days. This seems very unlikely, both from habit and because there seemed to be a general attitude in the air (either because of COVID or weather) that a trip would not be a good idea. If it were a good idea, I think maybe you'd have seen more (and experienced) folks out there on the Spanish side.
    Do we have a statement from LE that she registered with them?
     
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  5. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Snipped for focus.

    This is absolutely the case here. There have been other missing hikers in this area. But it's also fairly typical for easy-access trails to see many accidents: this is not a matter of remote or confusing landscapes. People have accidents. Temperatures went below freezing during the stretch ED was gone. There are treacherous spots. There are exposed areas. Places get fogged in. She evidently didn't carry enough food. She wasn't used to hiking by herself. There is no indication that she took first aid or the "10 essentials". The risk of hypothermia was very high. Etc etc.
     
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  6. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    I’ve gone back and read the dossier once again. Dan does not tell us when he arrived or when he joined the search. But he says he spent two nights at the refuge and did extensive searching on his own. When he did this exactly, he does not indicate. Later he makes this statement:


    ‘A week after Esther disappeared, Dan Colegate reports seeing many hunters in the area and several hikers (although by this point COVID restrictions had eased and hiking was again possible for anybody living locally).


    Is Dan saying that he joined the search one week after he reported her missing?

    Would that mean he did not arrive in the area until Sunday the 29TH? Am I correct that he was living about 4 hours away?

    If so, IMO that goes in our “ODD THINGS” category as well.
     
  7. sundaaaay

    sundaaaay Well-Known Member

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    I would agree, but she was not found despite a search effort, which means we have to remain open minded.

    DC (Who has been on this route) claims that this is not a particularly dangerous route. At the beginning, I researched descriptions of this route, and it is claimed school children regularly complete this hike in summer. She had hiked alone several times before including the days before her disappearance. It was cold but the refuge was close, she did have suitable, high quality, hiking equipment etc etc
     
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  8. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There are no named POIs or suspects in this case. Stop the insinuations and veiled accusations against DC.

    In another active case under discussion at WS, members spent the first X number of threads casting aspersions at the boyfriend. Yep, they knew for sure :rolleyes: .. except the person now charged with murder is a police officer unknown to the victim.

    This is precisely why Websleuths is strict about their Victim Friendly policy. There is nothing much worse than re-victimizing a victim. If members can't abide by our very basic principles, WS is not the place to be.
     
  9. PeggyHenry

    PeggyHenry Well-Known Member

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    Well, If Esther had an accident then I m thinking she wasn’t far from Pic de Sauvegarde. She wasn’t found by the extensive searches though so let’s see what the searches reveal this year.
    I think there is good reason to believe that her disappearance is not due to an accident due to the many inconsistencies, uncertainties and puzzling features peculiar to this case. Hope, if that turns out to be the case, that the Spanish authorities find the answers.

    If we could fill in the blanks to the text conversations Esther had then I think we’d have more of an idea of what was going on for her. Will revisit SMM ‘s post as it is so useful
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  10. Bethan

    Bethan Well-Known Member

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    I think Cags cleared up the mystery of the Sundsvall
    location earlier in this thread. This seems the likely explanation.

     
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  11. FrostOwl

    FrostOwl -

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    The only result in Swedish for Turbon Sundsvall I get is for a water slide at the indoor swimming pool.
     
  12. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    If you go onto Fb as if you’re writing a status / check in, click location tag and type in Turbon, the first location is Sundsvall

    CB52B09B-A7E3-4A5B-8CEB-7F0A9D59064B.jpeg

    I should add that if you then look at the photos tagged at Turbon Sundsvall, a lot are of El Turbon the mountain, so Esther was not the first person to add that tag incorrectly.

    (I just tried with El Turbon Pyrenees and the same happens, it defaults to Sweden)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  13. FrostOwl

    FrostOwl -

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    Yes, but even if the location says Sundsvall, if you look to the upper left, there is Llert, and if you try to check in there, you find that it's in Aragon Spain, and that's where the mountain Turbon is. Why FB wants to give its location in Sundsvall is a mystery, perhaps someone have altered the location as a joke.
     
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  14. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know, but I think we can surmise that this is what happened with Esther. I just wanted the “ooh that’s weird if she was in Sweden or pretending to be somewhere else” to stop!!
     
  15. jenpil

    jenpil Former Member

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    Agree also. Accident. Her mind was wandering, to different places and I think her body went too. She went off trail, had an accident in the dark and ended up down a ravine, possibly covered with bushes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  16. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    I agree that filling in the blanks would provide a lot of answers.

    I took a look back at Dan’s explanation for his selection process in regard to public access to ED’s communications:

    ‘Selected messages received from Esther are quoted below to indicate the times she set out, the times she subsequently reached Pic de Sauvegarde on both days and her happiness at the time. The full transcripts and screenshots of all communication have been provided to the police in both France and Spain.”

    Let me make it clear that I am not accusing Dan of anything nefarious at all ...other than presenting a romantic fairytale narrative to the public that is more protective... than proactive in solving the mystery.

    The dossier does not even consider the possibility of suicide in outlining possible theories. The word isn’t even mentioned! But yet Dan feels a need to provide texts to her state of mind. But IMO ONLY the happy ones. Like many of those in mourning, he needs to believe in ED’s complete happiness.

    Her departure from the house-sit is strange and abrupt...but any stresses on Esther that might be revealed in subsequent messages are seemingly not shared. On one hand that is their private business, but unfortunately, in a disappearance it is often that “private business” wherein the clues to the solution lie.

    Her own posts in the weeks after they returned from the Summer hike...show a woman struggling and hurting.

    Like many of us, ED is a complicated person with many emotional parts. But her emotional “survival skills” seem to require a distance from the world that IMO is beyond the norm. Her extensions to her trip, her days in the motor home in inclement weather...when Dan and “home”.were an option only hours away...the witness reports...the relationship description by the Investigator...the repetitive pictures...IMO paint a different picture of her last weeks than the “happy talk” that Dan chooses to provide to the public.

    Likewise his insistence that she is equipped and conducting herself in the manner of the most experienced and safety conscious member of their sport...has been challenged here by those who best know that sport.

    In summation, my issues are not with Dan, a man grieving for his missing partner...my issue is with the dossier. The more we look at it’s detail, the less helpful I find it to be. The more I pick at the information provided, the more confused I become. Last night a bit of a old song lyric came to me...

    ‘Memories may be beautiful and yet..
    What’s too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget.’

    I guess that’s my best summation of the Dossier.
     
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  17. PeggyHenry

    PeggyHenry Well-Known Member

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    Perfect song with B Streisand singing!

    Yes, for me the dossier presents a problem. The same as if a member of my family went missing and I presented a dossier to the world which included selective texts. All that is required is to present the full facts to the investigating officers.

    However, maybe it was done out of concern of being victimised.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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  18. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the dossier was done in an attempt to stop people speculating wildly about things we know nothing about. He obviously just wanted to try and clear up a few pertinent questions. He shouldn’t have bothered, because many people here have just used it against him. JMO.
     
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  19. stmarysmead

    stmarysmead Well-Known Member

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    I look at this differently.

    What was the reason for the dossier? IMO, it wasn’t something as trivial as stopping speculation. I give Dan more credit for emotional maturity than that.

    I doubt any of us would care what strangers speculated about...if our loved one seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth. Our only focus would be in finding that person. Think of the raw desperation! I would just want my loved one found!

    IMO, the only reason to make that dossier public was to enlist help from the public. Simple as that. Leave no stone unturned.

    The professionals had completed the mountain search and it’s now winter, so how can the public help? The only way is to analyze whatever information Dan is willing to share with us. Dan leans toward a solution involving a criminal act. The dossier is IMO intended to refute the alternatives of an accident-or a voluntary disappearance. He does not even entertain the alternative of suicide. He gave us facts and offered his conclusion.

    He asked for our help.

    We are trying to give that help. But, to some of us, the information he selected to share with us, has led us...at the present time...to a different explanation of the case. Especially when put in context with Esther’s posts, witness and LE statements, etc.

    Some here are almost certain it WAS an accident. Some think it could be an intentional disappearance. Some think it could be suicide. Some may have other opinions not suitable for our discussion here. But none of us are here trying to anything other than provide the help Dan has so painfully asked for.

    We just are respectively coming to a different conclusion than Dan. There’s no suspicion or disrespect in that. Giving help sometimes means saying things others may not want to hear.

    Most of us have sometime enlisted medical help from a physician and gone to him with a set of symptoms that we believe indicates a certain diagnosis. Occasionally, the physician has quite a different interpretation. Sometimes that saves lives.

    There’s no malice here. Just some different interpretations of the information shared with us.
     
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  20. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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