Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.
This was either user error or deliberate intent. Accident or suicide.
Because Dan was more talented in writing than her? Because she plainly did not enjoy the writing process? I fail to see the importance of Dan, writing these books and Esther editing them.
I am not so convinced about the scree fall idea - in the trail area, because then the body would still be close at hand IMO
But what lies at the bottom of that route for example, you could see how someone could have a very bad fall if you missed a turn.
Still suspect she went off the trail somehow, got lost, maybe hunkered down (thus hard to find) and didn't make it back out - maybe an injury or fall is relevant to that.
Honestly I don't think she is far away
I think though the thought is that if travelling downhill into France from Porte de la Glere it is a very very steep slope (referencing previously posted pictures), so you would fall and keep going, not fall in place.
Again referencing prior pictures, it is a cliff. 500m of scree with a switchback trail running through then a cliff.
Images from Otto on Thread #5
The red arrow indicates the trail, and the yellow marker is 500m
Why did Esther set off on her treck so late in the day? There were only a few hours of daylight left and darkness falls suddenly down there - darkness falls gradually in the UK.
If Esther fell down the scree and didn't die from that, she might wander away from the spot of accident, in a shock, maybe with a head injury, crawl somewhere between the rocks...
How often is Google earth updated? Could we find Esther's remains by looking ourselves?
Police drones scour mountains in probe into Brit hiker Esther Dingley's death
Police are scouring the Pyrenees mountains in an investigation into the death of British hiker Esther Dingley.
Patrols and drones are scouring the area to try and find answers as to how Esther died.
Detectives in France say it is still not known how Esther died, and no theory can yet be ruled out.
A police source said: "The enquiry is ongoing, and being led by a public prosecutor with the assistance of judicial police and gendarmes.
"There are still many questions to be answered, and that is why mountain searches are continuing.
"Foot patrols are in the area, and they are using drones to try and find further evidence connected with the case."
The enquiry in France is now being led by Christophe Amunzateguy, the Prosecutor of Saint-Gaudens.
The Spanish side of the border was already searched at the beginning of July, other than that there is no reason to suppose that wildlife, especially vultures, stick to official borders.
If Esther's remains are indeed in a hidden gulley then depending on the side of the mountain ridge (continental divide), water may eventually sweep items away to very different areas, either in Spain or in France that is.
Please help me out with these locations. Her final WhatsApp with Dan was from the Pic de Sauvegarde. And she told him she was going eastwards to the Refuge de Venasque. In order for her remains to have being found at Port de la Glere wouldn't she have needed to go westwards after the chat with Dan? I'm assuming she went missing shortly after the call as no further phone signal from her. But at 4pm wouldn't she have needed to be getting to the refuge?
Six teams search for Briton missing in Pyrenees - BBC News
Still in the same area. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that. Might dip into France. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room. Keep you posted when can xx Love you xxx
The above is Esther's final message to Dan. As you can see she did not say she was heading from Pic de Sauvegarde straight to Refuge de Venasque. It is quite possible Esther spent the night at the Spanish side ( in Cabana de la Besurtas maybe) and the next day she headed to Port de la Glere intending to reach Refuge Venasque as her next night stop. But, as she had an accident on the Port de la Glere, she never reached the Refuge.
Her 'remains' have not been found at the Port de la Glère, only part of her skull and the main hypothesis is that this piece was brought there by wildlife. The area had been searched at the beginning of July, and the cranium wasn't there then.
From the Pic de Salavaguardia, Esther would have gone down the mountain to the East and then turned to the North towards the Refuge. She had enough time left to reach the Refuge.
Phone signal would have been bad in that area, and she expected that she would not have a connection the next day.
But while it was expected that she would go to the Refuge and continue to the Port de la Glère the next day, it is not known with certainty which route she took or at what moment a possible accident / incident happened.
Yet it is very unlikely that she hiked directly from the Salvaguardia to the Port de la Glère.
Police 'have still not ruled out FOUL PLAY' as they continue probe into Esther Dingley's death | Daily Mail Online
IMO, she did not go down to the Refuge from the Pic. LE said early on that there was no evidence she went there. Indeed, she never said she was going to that particular Refuge. There are other Refuges in the area, including one at la Glère, that may or may not have had a winter room.
IMO the assumption/intepretation within the first days that ED went to the Refuge de V directly from the Pic has thrown a lot of people off, including perhaps LE/SAR. IMO there's no basis for privileging that route above others unless there was explicit, unambiguous, communication spelling it out. We haven't been presented with anything like that.
Phone signal, per the dossier, was good (though maybe not in patches?) in the Refuge de V/Hospice trail area. Maybe that whole valley (hard to tell exactly from the dossier). There was likely no phone signal in the P de la G area because of the lay of the land.
Didn't DC also say that it was "impossible to get lost" given the conditions, and that the route (which he doesn't know) was well within ED's capabilities? I'm sorry to say that this assessment does not look prophetic. It may be better to give more weight to the assessment of the local SAR, the president of the Pyrenees mountain rescue, the cops and pretty much every expert here. My own view, with genuinely great respect, is that all of the above aren't simply on keyboards. Otto, Rickshaw and others have flagged routes it would be silly to say it would be impossible for someone to have an accident on in the (then) prevailing conditions, MOO.
It may only be 2 days. The last comms were just after 1600 on 22nd. DC's dossier says he alerted the authorities on 25th. The cops say they were alerted on 24th (all flagged before). My view is to take the dossier as a primary source and the media reports as secondary, so on that basis I favour 25th. If so, 3 days of radio silence while in Pyrenees in sub-zero temperature on the first night.
Thank you. So am I correct in thinking IF she had done (or intended to do) the route via Refuge de Venasque to Port de la Glere she would have gone anti clockwise, down via the Hospice de France? I'm trying to figure out how her remains ended up west of Sauvegarde when she was intending to go east & north, unless animals moved them? I don't think she would have had no reception for days, so I don't see her having done much of this intended journey, although is it possible to get to Port de la Glere in one day from the Refuge? And wouldn't there be reception at least somewhere along that route? Unless animals moved her remains from her east/north journey and put them westward. Unless I'm misunderstanding the map?
This is my last post for the time being because my main theory has been pretty firm for some time and I don't see it changing unless there is new information. Also I see that the recent news has brought a lot of new people here and consequently all the old ideas are being gone over again.
I think Esther was most probably murdered in the Benasque valley the evening she came down from Sauvegarde, most likely near La Besurta cabin, and her body concealed (though we can surmise not very well) in that area. I personally believe that lammergeiers could have easily carried bones from there to Port de la Glere for breaking - indeed, they would have already covered that distance in the amount of time it would take them to gain that altitude, as they ascend quite slowly.
Final observation: I think the fact that Esther's last message came from the top of a mountain has conditioned nearly everyone into believing that she met her fate at high altitude or at least on one of the trails. No doubt if her last message had come from the Benasque valley, everyone would assume she died down there. But it really isn't far between those two places - just an easy hour-or-so (?) downhill hike. It's worth bearing that simple fact in mind because an awful lot of time has been spent in this forum on less-probable theories (to my mind), and on totally irrelevant topics like what she was eating or carrying, or on too-subtle interpretations of her last messages.
I think her gear will be found eventually. Until then I'm putting down my pipe and deerstalker.
Thank you. This makes so much more sense to me. I indeed have been thrown off by the idea she went anti clockwise from the Pic down to the Venasque Refuge. But her potentially staying in a refuge at la Glere makes far more sense to me. Of course she may not have done that either, but given there was no trace of her at the Venasque Refuge, I would also hasten a guess she never took that anti clockwise route. Thank you for this. It clarifies the location details much better in my mind
Wow, a lot to think about in your post.
I think it all depends on where they find those small bits of non-biodegradeable trace evidence. Shoe soles, etc.
But then, they really have to be on top of the right place. I sure hope more evidence of her can be found, and soon.