Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mal23

    mal23 Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Hi Sleuths,
    If the 2200m figure is correct she was on the zig-zags below the col of Port de la Glere. Cross referencing with a contoured map it's just below the long shadow cast by that huge boulder sticking out of the scree to the left of the zig-zags (see google earth link above)- a fine resting place/viewpoint...
     


  2. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,609
    Likes Received:
    38,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Interesting - and this ridgeline certainly seems like the kind of place you could easily fall from with the wrong shoes.
     
  3. sarahboirin

    sarahboirin Verified Crafter

    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Trophy Points:
    93
    BBM 600 m per the article but 100 m as the crow flies ;

    "Captain Bordinaro said the distance between where the body and skull were found was '100 metres as the crow flies' - but in reality, the hilly terrain on the rock-strewn path meant they were separated by 600 metres."

    And they have her phone and are examining it too ;

    "Forensic officers are also examining Esther's phone - a £270 Redmi Note 9 Pro - in the hope pictures saved on the memory or signals sent from the device could help police solve the mystery of her death."

    Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
    j_in_c, janewall, otto and 2 others like this.
  4. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    534
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think we need to wait for clarity. The DM article quoted contradicts itself several times, and seems to have been written by someone who hasn't studied the maps. The map in the article still shows her remains being found on the Spanish side of the border, between the Pic de Sauvegarde and La Besurta!

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/11/08/46520105-9879993-image-m-1_1628665618705.jpg
     
  5. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,609
    Likes Received:
    38,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh i agree on that - the DM is a joke, but I am hoping they didn't make up the Captain's quotes!

    Of course its highly possible they have it all wrong
     
  6. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    5,127
    Trophy Points:
    93
    No, I've seen nothing definitive either, but would be be interested to see if we can establish for sure though. Otherwise that leaves us with the theory that she did the Impeatrice loop and arrived there next afternoon. I posted a while ago up thread how I thought that might be plausible, but the more I think about it now, the less I think it likely that she never checked her phone all day, in an area with apparently good signal.

    If she did do the loop, then to end up at the top of Pic de la Glere (in order possibly to fall off it) would be an eastward deviation from the route (quite possible though from what others said it seems not so attractive a peak to make that detour for?) , whereas if it was via the ridge it would appear to be on the way to rejoining (at BM331 on the map in your link) the route back down to Benasque . I think.

    I'm not too heavily invested in the ridge theory tbh, but I may try to investigate it further before ruling it out altogether.
     
  7. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    5,127
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I thought the same, decent mats pack up really small (and cheaper ones don't as I unfortunately discovered after buying mine, online) so there's no need to attach on the outside. In all the photos I've never seen any where Esther had kit strapped on the outside of her rucksack.

    But as others have said, we need to wait for decent reporting.
     
  8. mal23

    mal23 Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    13
    said boulder/outcrop/viewpoint at approx 2220m shown here
    2200m is about at the start of the straight section
    (path with contours from Port de la Glere)
     

    Attached Files:

  9. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    33

    It seems like there was a very long route (about 3- 4 hours) or a very short one, which was was incredibly unrealistic and dicey, but someone who didn't know the area or was feeling dizzy or in other ways unwell might have attempted.

    As the remains were found between Port de la Gléré and Pic de la Gléré, some people were saying her last photo, on Pic de la S was too far away from P de la G (whichever one) for her to have had a fall. My point was, though timing might have mattered in other senses, it didn't seem to matter When it happened, or IF, it's clear it did... thought the cause of that fall remains uncertain. And that the bad, short route could have been attempted and gone wrong.

    I think it very probable that whatever her route, she was very tired and underfed perhaps, and either made a rash decision to attempt to get back home more quickly or - something else. It's worth mentioning that, although it's a three and a half hour walk between those spots it's only an 8 min drive, with a walk to and from the car at either side. That's why I ruled out murder quite early on. I couldn't see how the body could have got there without people noticing (sorry if that's disrespectful).

    I feel increasing concern for the family, as to me it looks more and more like suicide, as an experienced climber wouldn't have taken the decision to go from Port de la Gléré to the Pic - I don't think. I suspect that might be why DC suspected foul play. His knowledge of her is important. She was astonishingly intelligent, but also brave. Perhaps she was too keen to test her limits, especially if I was in an effort, I don't know, like poor visibility, or? A bear? Who knows? An injury? And she couldn't move well and then fell?
     
    otto, RedHaus, ChiCubs2016 and 2 others like this.
  10. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    7,300
    Likes Received:
    28,259
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m going to look again at the LE testimony in the Morphew case. There was a lot of WS chatter on this topic, because a lot of posters were VERY surprised at what LE could get access to. I’ll pick this up later if I can get it figured out.

    But, maybe unrelated, if ED’s family or DC had called her while her phone was in airplane mode, her phone would have pinged? When you’re on a plane, you get messages to voicemail? So, there must be some kind of locator? There was no trace of ED’s phone after PicdeS.
    I’m useless on phone technology, though, so feel free to pick this apart.
     
    Ruthbullock, otto, RedHaus and 3 others like this.
  11. mal23

    mal23 Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    13
    very unlikely she would have continued up the Pic from the Port/col esp with big sack. and would have been an unlikely/long fall to end up at 2200m near a path..
     
    otto and The_Investigator like this.
  12. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    7,300
    Likes Received:
    28,259
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The “famous tarptent” was yellow. There was no way to go incognito in it unless you’re in the woods.
     
  13. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Did anyone say she fell from the top? I think people just found any of the approaches dicey-looking, and anywhere there in poor conditions could have induced a fall quite quickly - therefore not reaching the Pic, but simply aiming for it. This thread is plagued by that sort of completist logic. I admit that that's part of the enticement to return here though, the partial knowledge and wanting to work it all out with existing, and as yet insufficient evidence. It's all so sad.
     
  14. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    7,300
    Likes Received:
    28,259
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are correct. That mattress would go inside the pack. It would get destroyed in a matter of hours on the outside of the pack: think, ultralight air mattress.

    ****
    Please, no one use this mattress design at anytime but the height of summer. Paradoxically, that mattress can accelerate hypothermia. It puts a layer of air under you. In below freezing weather, that means icy cold. I can testify this is true! You need an insulated mattress, or at least a piece of closed cell foam(those rolls you see on the outside of backpacks).
     
  15. Mel79

    Mel79 Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    152
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I think people were, assuming good weather and visibility, that she would have had to be crazy to try to climb the slopes up to the Pic from the French side, therefore the surmise was that she fell from the ridge (or 'top') to get where she ended up. Not necessarily the peak at all.
     
  16. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    56,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I imagine the police, and Dan, know exactly where Esther fell from by now, to end up where she did. I wonder how much will be disclosed to the public.

    The next major step is ascertaining (via phone records and photos) where she walked before that, and possibly when she died.
     
  17. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I hope that's agreement, because you and I are saying the same thing... although I odn't think she was 'crazy.' I do think she was maybe suffering or in pain.
     
    RedHaus likes this.
  18. touch

    touch Active Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    33
    This is not true.
    A thermarest neoair has an R value of 4.2. That's at least 3-season and more than a lot of closed-cell foam pads.
     
  19. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    7,300
    Likes Received:
    28,259
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for saying this. I think LE has been urging from the get-go to stay out of “completist logic”. Note how far ranging their November search was: they didn’t take any testimonial for gospel. And also note LE’s reference to ED as inexperienced. LE’s statements come from their SAR experience in that region as well as statistics; this brought them outside the narrative of ED had to have gone this way and behaved like so.
    I’m a big fan of following LE and SAR for guidance in missing hiker cases.
    Esther Dingley's final moments still a mystery as remains may have been scattered by animals
     
    janewall, rhino, RedHaus and 3 others like this.
  20. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,609
    Likes Received:
    38,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes. The Ridgeline that you have to follow to reach the peak.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice