Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

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  1. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

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    I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)? And then weather/animals etc meant it was skeletal by the time the remains were found? Her body might not be as the result of a fall in that case, so much as drop? Sorry if that's sick. Just trying to weigh possibilities up....
     
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  2. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

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    That isn't what was said. BETWEEN the Port and the Pic was what was said.
     
  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Thanks so much for saying this. LE/SAR could only do so much. Besides, by the time ED was reported missing, they’d already be in recovery mode, because temperatures had gone below freezing.
    SAR has to balance the risks to their teams with the likelihood of rescue. LE/SAR also operates from experience in the area.
    Furthermore, French LE was getting beset by complaints because ED had gone missing during lockdown. They may just not have made public where and what they were searching.
    Recall, too, the entire loop area, including the RdeV had been contaminated by a close family member, who likely was carrying around aroma or particles from ED. This will have mooted canine searches.
    SAR expressly does not want family or intimates in a search area. They instruct them to stay away. At first, they generally don’t like non-SAR volunteers, either.
     
  4. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    No, that makes no sense at all.

    That wouldn't involve an 8 minute drive. It would mean a descent of a 2700m mountain on foot carrying a body, an 8 minute drive, then an ascent on foot to a 2400m Port and a scramble higher up carrying a body. Out of the question.
     
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  5. IrisElizabeth

    IrisElizabeth Well-Known Member

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    I think that would be quite a feat considering the inaccessibility of where she was found. Also a potential murderer wouldn't know that DC would wait to raise the alarm - they wouldn't know they had a few days 'grace' in which to move a body. I really think the foul play theory is extremely unlikely.
     
  6. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Dropped from a drone? Yikes!
     
  7. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Dan considered foul play because she had seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. Even the police stated at one point that they didn’t think she was still in the area. There was a chance she’d hitched a lift or met someone else and was no longer in those mountains.

    Add to that, as seen in so many cases, families will push the foul play narrative because it ramps up public interest and puts pressure on authorities to continue the investigation. I very much doubt foul play is still on the table now she’s been found.

    On a bit of a tangent, there will be footage to pore over from initial aerial searches, to check she was always in her final resting place.
     
  8. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

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    RSBM - good point, I'd not considered that. There's potentially a lot of work to be done before we can expect to hear anything significant (and non-speculative).
     
  9. touch

    touch Active Member

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    I noticed a couple of weeks ago but didn't want to post because it's a bit morbid but bing maps have updated their satellite imagery for the location recently. It happened earlier this year after the snow had melted but before the body was discovered so could be visible. The resolution is good but probably not high enough to pick out much detail anyway.
     
  10. mal23

    mal23 Member

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    c'mon guys- can we all agree that she was found near a path on the french side of port de la glere?

    at 2200m...
     
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  11. PeggyHenry

    PeggyHenry Well-Known Member

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    great point in your final para
     
  12. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to be cautious about camera angles and lens distortion. There are a number of sharp ridges in the vicinity of the peak, and the ridge between the Pic de la Montagnette and Pic de la Glère is sharp and steep. There clearly are routes up the Pic de la Glère though. The Spanish and French blogs mentioned previously both mention easier routes in passing, though it's hard to tell, in context, how much easier they might be. It's clearly much more demanding than a typical hiking trail.
     
  13. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

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    That's a finally nicely balanced article from the good old Independent. DC's earlier conviction of foul play may have been self-persuasion. Perhaps he didn't want to believe she had some hidden crisis.

    It is difficult when high-functioning people suffer poor mental health, as it's not always easy to tell they are in trouble. I think conjecture about DC is for the police.I do not want to add to his troubles by accusing him of something, which is awful as the papers all seem to be implying it when they talk about 'tensions in their relationship'. Another person might have done something at Sauvegarde, and I wonder if this has been DC's thesis.

    A local would know all the ins and outs of the area. I even thought about a local authority cover-up to prevent tourism being deterred! DC probably hiked all around acknowledging a local would know where to go to conceal a body.

    Then again, unfamiliar terrain will give unfamiliar results. I still think accident or suicide are the main possibilities. Or even accident under great emotional strain. When my blood sugar is low and I'm stressed, I can imagine being desperate and near a mountain top and even the physiological effects of that increasing the chances of my confusion or lack of coordination. I can get that in Tesco, never mind in the Pyrenees.

    If ED did go there herself, and was not moved post mortem, I think a range of factors could have brought about her death could be quite simple, but more complex in that environment - including light failing and some poor decisions. For the sake of the family I am reticent to go all out with the suicide conclusion. I also don't want her to have suffered at all or at the hands of some dreadful person, so I resist that conclusion too, though it remains possible.

    As it is, someone early this morning was stabbed to death around the corner from my house so I have to get away as there are so many police sirens and ambulances...

    I really hope everyone pulls through. I'm sorry if ED made a fatal error. If she was in pain, I hope people realise that when we take our lives in our hands it can be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and there's ALWAYS someone you can turn to, however desperate things feel. I often wonder if climbers and extreme hikers have a death wish. I have walked in the area ED was in, which spooks me but makes me feel close to her in spirit. Being 'in the clouds' is exactly how it feels.

    At the same time, it's an extremely rugged area and there are no circumstances in which you would find me walking there on my own in November. It's not judgment on her I issue here, but rather, wasn't her hike a kind of withdrawal that got noticed too late? It's so difficult because I don't judge DC either. I think we all need to be more educated about mental health, to help ourselves as much as anything. Social withdrawal is the single most common sign of depression there is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  14. Owlpellet

    Owlpellet Well-Known Member

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    Revisiting my scenario of the wind catching the lightweight tent and dragging it down onto the slope... it’s a big “if” I know, but I agreed to rule it out yesterday because of the tent’s relatively low value. Today I’ve realised that the value of the tent would have been irrelevant ...Esther picked up litter from the trails, returning with “bulging pockets” I recall Dan saying. So she wouldn’t have left a tent lying about if she could possibly have helped it! It’s important we remember who Esther was, and I was forgetting.

    IMO, retrieving a tent is as likely a scenario as suicide, murder or fleeing bears and carnivorous deer, if we are seeking reasons to explain why she may have deviated from the trail out onto the slopes of Pic de la Glère. Putting one of these back into your pack on your own in the wind is like wrestling with a gigantic kite...they catch the wind very easily! They can certainly unbalance you too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  15. mal23

    mal23 Member

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    as is the path leading up to the Port. the path is also below the Pic..
     
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  16. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    Here's another photograph along the ridge line, this time looking along the ridge from the summit of Pic de la Glère, again in the direction of the Pic de Sauvegarde, with the Pic de la Montagnette in between. Although snow obscures much of the detail (this was taken in June!) I can't see how this route would be walkable.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ai3F1DgSS...La+M0nta%C3%B1eta+y+Salvaguardia.+6-6-14..JPG
     
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  17. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    French side of Glere, yes. But why near a path?
     
  18. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

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    RSBM - Thanks. Looking at that picture I tend to agree!
     
  19. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Wow. I mean, unless you’re a tightrope walker, that looks like an absolute no way!

    Edited to add photo:

    D0A2BB61-6FF4-4F85-B084-757E04B6A0B6.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  20. poirotoupierrot

    poirotoupierrot Active Member

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    But surely that's the point? She did NOT succeed. She fell.


    Also I don't know why we're back to that ridge again? The falling place has been defined as between the Pic and the Port? As previously mentioned, she didn't need to reach the ridge, she could have just fallen before that?
     
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