Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

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  1. The_Investigator

    The_Investigator Former Member

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    Sounds like she fitted all her favour activities into her last month,… was that the plan? Sound like suicide more and more, <modsnip - no link>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2021
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  2. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your opinion and Dan's observations. And now...... the caveat:

    Under normal conditions, Esther would stick mainly to trails and would never consider that option to be doable. Esther, however, might not of been operating in normal conditions.

    Rather, she could have been facing compounding challenges from lack of nutrition, good clothing, lack of knowledge of the area, nightfall, being alone, to a reluctance to ask for help on the French side.

    When exhaustion and perhaps mild hypothermia set in, there is increased chances for "tunnel vision" where outdoorsmen and women get fixated on an option that, to the outside, is simply not viable.

    Or, in the contrary, exhaustion and / or mild hypothermia increase chances for confusion which leads to a series of rapid plan / direction changes, which leads to more exhaustion- then more disorientation, then a possible selecting of a dangerous option in error.
     
  3. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    I agree, that photo rules out a short cut across the gap in the loop. We’ve always said Besurta was an alternative stopover (rather than Refuge de V) on 22nd, and we know there was no signal at Besurta which would explain zero contact. So did she head back down to the Spanish side and back up to Glere the next day? Again, hopefully her phone will tell us, she would have taken photos I reckon.
     
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  4. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Did LE/SAR say the backpack was on the remains? I can't remember seeing that. I got the impression it was not, i.e. likely there was no falling with a pack on, though I suppose a person could fall with a pack on and then take it off.
     
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  5. searancke

    searancke Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately to conflicting statements seem to have been released. previously it was said that she was found "below the Pic and above the Porte" And there looks to be a place where you could fall from the Pic and be hidden fropm view from the trail.

    Now the Daily Mail are quoting "Captain Bordinaro said the distance between where the body and skull were found was '100 metres as the crow flies'. Her remains were discovered by her boyfriend Mr Colegate 400 metres below the Pic de la Glere on August 9 - approximately 100 metres from where a fragment of her skull was found 18 days earlier on July 23. "

    The Porte looks to be at 2375m and the pic 2450m - from here Col de la Glère

    Whereas the new statement quoted in the Daily Mail suggests the body was at 2050m but that conflicts the the fact the skull was supposedly at "2200m line" and the body 100m above(?)/from that. I guess it could be below...I'm just reviewing the available information.... I realise I have "assumed" the fact the body is 100m from the skull means it was above but it could be below if animals were involved.....

    Maybe if we discount the original statement that the body was between the Porte and the Pic, all becomes clear.

    Walking down the steep, zig zag, shale/scree track she slips and falls, hits head. Never goes near the Pic (which seems difficult anyway)

    <EDIT> to redo the picture - 2200 marked red, with a cross on the path for the skull.
    green circle for "100m" from skull,, and yellow line for "400m below Pic"
     

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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  6. Federico_A

    Federico_A Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let's put to bed the idea that she climbed to the top of the Pic de la Glere. I don't know where that came from. It's absolutely unhikable. No way. Forget it. And it's not necessary to assume she even attempted it. There are other places to fall from.

    The place I marked X on the lower shoulder of the pic earlier today is actually 100m as the crow (or vulture) flies from the path on the scree below, so there can hardly be any other possibility than that she fell from somewhere close to that spot. I can't imagine the authorities will pin-point the spot on the map for us, so that may be closest we can get.

    Just playing around on Google Earth again, I tried approaching that spot on the ridge to see what the view is like - not too impressive as I suspected, but with every inch further towards the very edge, the view of the cirque opens out below and is much more impressive. I can easily imagine her leaning out to get the best shot, then slipping on a loose rock or losing balance in a sudden gust of wind. The crags below are in deep shadow on Google so it's difficult to gauge how far she might have fallen, but from other pictures it looks pretty sheer.

    Still can't rule out a suicidal leap, but given the plausibility of a reckless-ridge-slip, suicide seems less probable.
     
  7. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, I would go with your first option.

    "Paradoxical undressing" and / or impulsively abandoning needed gear, tunnel vision regarding options etc., are all signs of exhaustion and perhaps in her case, mild to moderate hypothermia.
     
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  8. The_Investigator

    The_Investigator Former Member

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    Yes but like the people who kill themselves in front of trains,.. no regard for the poor Tain drivers there is there !
     
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  9. The_Investigator

    The_Investigator Former Member

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    She looks very vacant in that video,.. perhaps exhausted?
     
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  10. IrisElizabeth

    IrisElizabeth Well-Known Member

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    I can imagine if one felt suicidal, you would kind of enter a nihilistic state of mind where you wouldn't be acting in a selfless manner, and what happens after you have gone may seem inconsequential once you were in that final moment/frame of mind.
     
  11. mal23

    mal23 Member

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    runners stick to paths..
     
  12. The_Investigator

    The_Investigator Former Member

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  13. The_Investigator

    The_Investigator Former Member

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    Does anyone know where her bike was as she did 3 cycle rides in the month away? Would it have been inside the camper van? Is that possible. It wasn’t on the outside.
     
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  14. ZaZara

    ZaZara AstraZaZara

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    My simple theory is that Esther walked as planned.

    From the Salvaguardia to the Refuge de Venasque, and the next day the planned route that led her to the Port de la Glere. In that area, she climbed one mountain top too many, unfortunately, and that was the only time that she deviated from the plan.

    Her phone will be found with her remains and the pictures she took will confirm this. If she stored it in airtight containers, what remained of her food (oats, pasta and the like) for the trip will be found. Esther and Dan kept an ample supply of basic foods in their van, and Dan has stated that she had enough food for 5 days on her last hike.

    All awaiting confirmation of course.
     
  15. gribb0

    gribb0 Active Member

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    We don't actually know she fell of anything as far as I can remember they have just said likely accident. That could mean trip over a rock, sprained ankle, it could be anything. With no phone signal and stuck out overnight exposure would be quick I guess. She was in a hard to reach area but she may have gone there looking for shelter.
     
  16. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    It's still somewhat confusing. The remains are 100 meters from the skull (which was near the trail at 2200 meters), the remains are at an elevation above the Port de la Glere and below the Pic de la Glere, yet DM has placed the body below the skull in this illustration.

    [​IMG]

    Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

    Or was the body above the skull?

    upload_2021-8-12_9-24-43.png

    Either way, we know the general location of body and skull. It's probable that vultures moved the piece of skull. We know that she was on a dangerous or difficult climb when she either fell, found herself in bad weather and sought protection from the elements, or chose to end life.
     
  17. searancke

    searancke Well-Known Member

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    I have just realised my diagram also works if you look at her being found between the Pic and the Porte vertically (not horizontally) so maybe what they meant was this
    (Red cross is the skull (2200m, on the path), yellow line is 400m below pic (2050m), green circle is approx "100m from skull", and white lines indicate the Pic and the Porte)

    So she was found between the Pic and the Porte, 400m below the Pic, 100m from the skull, puts her at near where the green circle and yellow line (don't quite) intersect google earth Pic porte de la glere.png
     
  18. Mel79

    Mel79 Active Member

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    She could have been looking for shelter or trying to get away from something.
    Interesting video. Sadly she doesn't get much of a chance to talk! When she does she looks to him constantly, maybe in case he'll be annoyed with her interjecting.
     
  19. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe not. Big assumption to make.
     
  20. mal23

    mal23 Member

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    all very confusing, but she was walking up to the col. i'm trusting the initial report of 2200m for now. as a mountain walker, that outcrop would be very appealling, possibly for a bivvy.
    re tent -no need if staying at refuge..
     
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