Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

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  1. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I am not aware of an eating disorder. But..... E's diet choice went beyond vegetarianism and into veganism. As a result, she might of asked for the fruit specifically because the other food they had might of contained animal products of some sort or another.

    Likewise, I think the veganism coupled with months of strenuous hiking contributed to her fatigued look and the distinct possibility of being constantly under nourished.

    Though I am sure that a hiking life style can be maintained with veganism, it probably requires alot of preparation, planning and additional rest periods. In contrast, E and D seemed to be pretty impulsive and always on the go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021


  2. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Still trying to parse the bits of information we have. If we trust the initial report that the skull was at 2200 meters, and trust that the body was 100 meters from the skull but below the peak, that makes sense. Hopefully, Dan will be quoted and he will provide elevations or locations to help us better understand.
     
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  3. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

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    Triangle.

    But the distance details are a mess. Possibly, there's a translation issue from the Spanish.
     
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  4. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Walking distance and flying distance doesn't help that much when the trails are switchbacks. I wish authorities would state elevation of body location in the same way that skull elevation was provided.
     
  5. RedHaus

    RedHaus Well-Known Member

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    BBM

    @arrogantcat, the simple answer is "Yes".

    There was quite a lot of discussion, with as much respect as we could offer to ED and her family, likely in Thread #2 or 3.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  6. searancke

    searancke Well-Known Member

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    yes I think we are all getting confused with the distances, I'm going to row back now from my diagram - I think when they are talking distances it is in walking meters - not "as the crow flies" nor elevation meters. I think 400m from the Pic means walking meters, and 600m is 100 "crow flies" m further down
     
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  7. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Are you thinking that the body was at a lower elevation than the skull? Meaning that the description of the body being above the Port being inaccurate or a difficult translation?
     
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  8. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    That's what I think as well.

    She is 100m up the slope if you could fly - but to trek it, you have to go back up the trail some distance to find an access point - my guess a mix of trail and traverse

    (wild speculation)
     
  9. RedHaus

    RedHaus Well-Known Member

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    This is my post, #316, Thread #3, mid-January 2021. It was my first mention of suicide as one scenario to explain ED's disappearance. I know many here do not believe suicide is plausible or possible and I have no quarrel with that. Of course none of us know yet what happened to ED. But I thought I'd resurrect this post in case it helps others catch up with why several / many of us back then started to wonder about this possibility and began discussing it openly here on this forum.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is so very sad, isn't it? The quest for a final answer for the family is what compels me to keep coming back to this thread. Not that I think any of us will personally solve this case since so much data is missing, but perhaps we can make suggestions that DC, ED's family or the LE can pick up on and apply to their investigation.

    That said, the longer time goes by, the less I think a voluntary disappearance applies. I go back to that because IMO it is likely the only way ED is still alive. And I do think if she had a 'buddy' (e.g. someone she met during the prior month, or perhaps a trusted friend she had been communicating with) she could be living under cover without having to use her credit card or phone. But given her kind nature, I'd suspect by now she would have told her family and/or DC about her new life plan.

    So I am left with a fatal accident, death by hypothermia, or suicide. I applaud @Hatty for putting out her suicide theory up thread. And you and otto today are also speaking about that possibility. I have been reluctant to go there publicly to avoid harming the family. But I think its time I share the thoughts I've shared privately.

    Here is why I think ED could have committed suicide sometime between 22/11 and 24/11:

    1. Depression History - we know ED had a history of clinical depression and chronic fatigue syndrome. Perhaps it was not as resolved as DC and her family thought.

    2. Impending Change in Lifestyle - with their six year adventure coming to a close (Brexit, DC wanting to settle down, etc.) could ED have needed an escape hatch?

    3. Isolation - ED wanted to take some healthy time away from DC after 6 years of being together in a small van. But isolating from friends and family can be worrisome.

    4. Food or Water Deprivation - Maybe ED was an extreme dieter and let herself become depleted. But if she was suicidal, perhaps she would not care as much as others.

    5. Finding the Place and Time - With multiple trips up the same peaks and summiting late in the day (both common occurrences for ED's history) could that indicate some attempt by her to find the right place and time to die? And to do so when no one else is around like at the end of the day?

    6. ED's Comments - hatty cited some fairly profound evidence. And I noticed some of ED's FB comments indicate she was happiest when she was in the mountains, completely self contained ("snail") and she found glaciers "mystical". While those could be innocent expressions of hiking thrills, maybe she wanted to be there forever.

    Sorry if this causes anyone further upset, but I believe we are just interpreting the data as objectively as we can to help.
     
  10. searancke

    searancke Well-Known Member

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    No, I now am in entire agreement with you @otto, ignore the yellow line on my diagram. The remain will have been found on the upper section of the green circle, which is pretty much in your triangle.... google earth Pic porte de la glere.png
     
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  11. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    My thinking is that if we can pinpoint the elevation of the body, we can look at terrain maps to better understand how she got there.

    upload_2021-8-12_11-28-33.png
     
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  12. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    "Her skull was found 656 yards (600m) away further south" would place the skull in Spain! There are too many obvious mistakes and contradictions in this article to take it seriously.
     
  13. tedtink

    tedtink Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she committed suicide.
    Suicide usually takes meticulous planning after much rumination.
    If she were going to commit suicide, why take all the heavy gear up with her? Backpack etc? Unless she wanted to 'fake her own suicide', and spare her loved ones the guilt.
    It's rare that a person commits suicide on a whim.

    I think she fell.

    JMO
     
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  14. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    The original quote, from the Mail, was:

    "Captain Bordinaro said the distance between where the body and skull were found was '100 metres as the crow flies' - but in reality, the hilly terrain on the rock-strewn path meant they were separated by 600 metres."
    Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

    That's not a direct quotation from M. Bordinaro, but my understanding is that the straight line separation between the skull fragment and the body was 100m, but to get from one to the other would involve a walk of 600m because of the rugged terrain.
     
  15. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    I think so too, based on the little information we have. I'm guessing the body was between 2300 and 2400 meters elevation. If she was at the peak, that is still a 100 meter (300 feet) fall.
     
  16. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Thank you! That makes sense. That would suggest a 100 meter difference in elevation, very likely 100 meters above the skull.
     
  17. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    Until there's more info, I'm assuming this is the body location.

    upload_2021-8-12_12-3-18.png
     
  18. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Have you got the elevations of the pic and the port to hand, please Otto? Just the numbers.
     
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  19. OEJ-JEO

    OEJ-JEO Well-Known Member

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    Port - 2367m
    Pic - 2496m

    (I'm not otto, but I had the numbers to hand!)
     
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  20. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

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    Lol thank you!!
     
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