Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by FrostOwl, Nov 29, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Verified Outdoor Recreation Specialist

    Messages:
    6,985
    Likes Received:
    25,739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are correct as far as I've investigated: the refuge de la g is not very close to the port de la g. IMO, if the night after the Pic, ED went to the cabane, and climbed up tp the p de la g the next day....I'll bet she thought she could do this AND descend to the refuge de la g the next day.There's no evidence she had a topo map, which would have given her the wherewithal to visualize the difficulty of getting there (a phone screen is simply too small, and wouldn't give the necessary detail). Both ED and DC put a lot of trust in athleticism (which DC calls "experience"), but athleticism scarcely matters if conditions, terrain, hours of daylight, the lay of the land, footwear etc. won't support the goal.
     


  2. Kazibar

    Kazibar Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    13
    “If she was heading to the Refuge de la Glere…
    Refuge de laGlere is nowhere near the area. It’s much further into France near the lac de la glere.
     
    poirotoupierrot, Suglo, otto and 6 others like this.
  3. Kazibar

    Kazibar Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    13
    “If she was heading to the Refuge de la Glere…
    Refuge de laGlere is nowhere near the area. It’s much further into France near the lac de la glere.
     
  4. Kazibar

    Kazibar Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    13
    janewall, Suglo, otto and 8 others like this.
  5. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,128
    Likes Received:
    33,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    RSBM

    Do you mean if there is a a scree slide?

    We used to jump down these a bit like skiing as kids. IMO it's reasonably easy to stop unless the scree slope itself starts moving - in which case you are in trouble. The main thing I remember about descending these was making sure there was not a big bluff at the end

    I guess if it is super step and icy she might have bounced down it
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    janewall, otto, RickshawFan and 2 others like this.
  6. Steve13

    Steve13 Former Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    412
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This is really super, Kike76. Thanks!
     
    otto and Flicka1 like this.
  7. otto

    otto Verified Expert

    Messages:
    37,332
    Likes Received:
    71,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So much has been said about refuge de la glere since Esther's disappearance - but it is no where near her planned route.
     
  8. Steve13

    Steve13 Former Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    412
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As a quasi-philosophical point, I see this thread includes a number of posters saying that, essentially, we shouldn't speculate and should wait until the authorities tell us what they've found. MOO, but it seems to me that this is antipathetic to the very raison d'être of Websleuths. There are many other websites; posters here really should not feel lobbied not to examine constructively all the angles. Just my opinion and put with respect to all fellow posters.
     
    Meesh1772, PeggyHenry, otto and 6 others like this.
  9. otto

    otto Verified Expert

    Messages:
    37,332
    Likes Received:
    71,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    WW2 was a different time.
     
  10. Steve13

    Steve13 Former Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    412
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hi, Grouse. I'm not sure which country you live in but where I live the free press is a pretty great thing. We don't always like what they write, of course, but they flag their readers' interests and concerns. Where people post below the line, they're the same sort of people who post here. I don't think it's fair to call people vile trolls. Online obviously gives far greater access and here you and I are - posting to an online board! In the end, these freedoms and facilities help solve problems - perhaps like the fate of Esther Dingley - which would have gone unsolved in the past. The media have been really sympathetic to the victims in this case. My own view is that we should encourage them and not diss newspapers and their readers. MOO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    PeggyHenry, otto, RickshawFan and 3 others like this.
  11. Steve13

    Steve13 Former Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    412
    Trophy Points:
    63
    If I may make another small but perhaps significant point? While there is some redundancy in the posting here, that's generally a good thing in any constructive process. In the round, the quality of posting is really high and I for one am thankful for all the outdoors experts taking time to put great quality information up in a constructive and fraternal fashion. WS will be watched by LE and others and so we can be a (modest) force for good. I'm an experienced climber, but I absolutely defer to many of the folks here who have a much better knowledge of the area, sometimes though extensive online research, than me. That said, I've decided to give more weight to DC's theory that ED was a victim of foul play. I don't agree with all DC's reasoning, but I do feel there are strong signs that the French authorities have reason to think DC may be correct. And of course DC's personal insights into all of this are greater than all of us put together. The weighting has recently shifted towards foul play, I think. I'm going to concentrate my own efforts on respecting and supporting DC's view that ED was indeed the victim of foul play. Obv, others will see things differently and that diversity is what makes this board so good. Folks should be proud to be a part of it, actually. So there!
     
  12. otto

    otto Verified Expert

    Messages:
    37,332
    Likes Received:
    71,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Esther Dinley is sea level both in the UK and through her Dutch father. People born at 1100 meters above sea level are not quite the same as sea level hikers at 2200 meters.

    Born in the Rocky Mountains, it's not difficult to understand the brainfart that sea-level dwellers experience in the mountains. The most bizarre story I heard was about sea level Australians who camped in the Great White North forest and they were attached by bears. They launched a lawsuit against the federal government demanding that bears be penned up so people could camp open - bivouac - in bear country.

    Perhaps Esther became light headed, perhaps she became vulnerable. Regardless, she ended her life one way or another in the Pyrenees. I don't think she wanted to return to her life, which meant house sitting in France and soon returning to London with no money and no future. What was she going to do - stand on a street corner in London and ask people for fruit? Her lifestyle of 6 years was asking strangers for fruit. Not surprising she was afraid to go home.
     
  13. Grouse

    Grouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    4,575
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Not sure if you are being serious or not, but FWIW I live in the UK and I have had good reasons over the years to distrust our tabloid press, the treatment of Christopher Jefferies, and the News International phone-hacking scandal to name a couple.

    In the Esther Dingley case they do seem to have handled things more carefully, but some of the comments I've seen below articles by "readers" have been appalling.
     
  14. IrisElizabeth

    IrisElizabeth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    416
    Trophy Points:
    53
    I don’t think there are strong signs that the French LE are leaning towards foul play, they just can’t rule it out which is not the same thing - and the publicity this case has attracted particularly because of DC’s adamant assertions that it could only have been foul play means that they need to get to the bottom of what happened to Esther. I still strongly believe she found a hidden quiet spot and ended her own life. Her nomadic way of life was coming to an end and I think she decided to stay in the mountains forever.
     
    otto, Flicka1, sassyblue and 5 others like this.
  15. Hatty

    Hatty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    83
    When a body or part of a body is found, there is always an investigation and the police are involved. It does not mean foul play is necessarily suspected. In many of the other missing hiker cases, the whole body has been located (or most of it) making it easier to explain the reasons for death. In the UK a file has to be prepared for the Coroner to show that a satisfactory investigation into a death has taken place into why and how the person died.

    Finding just a bit of skull without attempting to locate the rest of the body wouldn’t suffice in my experience.
     
  16. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,516
    Likes Received:
    54,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Has Dan continued to suggest foul play since Esther’s skull was found? I understand that was his stance when she had seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, but now there is proof of her death in the mountains, is he still saying that?

    Hopefully, further searches and forensic examination of the skull will bring some answers to this mystery. Her poor family have nowhere near enough info to get any closure yet.
     
  17. Hatty

    Hatty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    83

    LE probably wouldn’t have searched interminably if they hadn’t found anything - but now that a body part has been found there is a duty to further investigate to establish what has happened. At least that’s what we do in the UK.
     
    Suglo, Owlpellet, Flicka1 and 7 others like this.
  18. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,516
    Likes Received:
    54,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly this, Hatty. I’m not sure why further searches are being touted as proof of foul play. Good to see you, police experience always welcome :)
     
  19. pineapple23

    pineapple23 Active Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Hi I'm new here but have been following this from the start. It's an interesting point. I can't help thinking that Dan's insistence on foul play was due in part, to it being the only option which allowed for the possibility of her still being alive - ie she might be being held somewhere against her will.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    Suglo, Toodles5000, Flicka1 and 8 others like this.
  20. CoverMeCagney

    CoverMeCagney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,516
    Likes Received:
    54,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course, and we’ve seen that countless times in misper cases. Loved ones would rather someone left them involuntarily than on purpose. Insinuations of foul play also maintain the momentum of a case. “Hiker fell and died” does not a headline make.

    Esther went missing shortly before the snow blanketed the area which halted searches. It effectively enforced a “pause” in the case lasting several months, thereby ramping up speculation and conjecture. It’s only natural. Had she been found, or the skull had been found, back in December, we’d all just assume tragic accident and quite possibly wouldn’t have give the case much more thought.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice