Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

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I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)? And then weather/animals etc meant it was skeletal by the time the remains were found? Her body might not be as the result of a fall in that case, so much as drop? Sorry if that's sick. Just trying to weigh possibilities up....
 
RSBM

Is it uncharacteristic?

She is already in an alpine area, parts of which are closed, by herself, in November, without proper kit and food, during a pandemic which risks SARS having to get together to come find her.

My one rant (not aimed at you) is at the emerging "SARS should have done more to find her" schtick

Why should SARS find people who are up alone, off their route, during a pandemic, out of season - lost in 100s of square miles of rugged terrain? How many days and weeks should they spend on it when they don't even know if she is up there?

This is why NZ closed its beaches and trails during the pandemic - because it is not fair to expect people to come look for you.

/ one time rant.
Thanks so much for saying this. LE/SAR could only do so much. Besides, by the time ED was reported missing, they’d already be in recovery mode, because temperatures had gone below freezing.
SAR has to balance the risks to their teams with the likelihood of rescue. LE/SAR also operates from experience in the area.
Furthermore, French LE was getting beset by complaints because ED had gone missing during lockdown. They may just not have made public where and what they were searching.
Recall, too, the entire loop area, including the RdeV had been contaminated by a close family member, who likely was carrying around aroma or particles from ED. This will have mooted canine searches.
SAR expressly does not want family or intimates in a search area. They instruct them to stay away. At first, they generally don’t like non-SAR volunteers, either.
 
I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)?
No, that makes no sense at all.

That wouldn't involve an 8 minute drive. It would mean a descent of a 2700m mountain on foot carrying a body, an 8 minute drive, then an ascent on foot to a 2400m Port and a scramble higher up carrying a body. Out of the question.
 
I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)? And then weather/animals etc meant it was skeletal by the time the remains were found? Her body might not be as the result of a fall in that case, so much as drop? Sorry if that's sick. Just trying to weigh possibilities up....
I think that would be quite a feat considering the inaccessibility of where she was found. Also a potential murderer wouldn't know that DC would wait to raise the alarm - they wouldn't know they had a few days 'grace' in which to move a body. I really think the foul play theory is extremely unlikely.
 
I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)? And then weather/animals etc meant it was skeletal by the time the remains were found? Her body might not be as the result of a fall in that case, so much as drop? Sorry if that's sick. Just trying to weigh possibilities up....
Dropped from a drone? Yikes!
 
I keep wondering about murder, just because DC thought it. Is it still possible someone could have been violent at Sauvegarde and then hidden the body (after an 8 min drive) at Port de la Gléré-ish (as no-one was around, and nothing know about her disappearance for the first few days)? And then weather/animals etc meant it was skeletal by the time the remains were found? Her body might not be as the result of a fall in that case, so much as drop? Sorry if that's sick. Just trying to weigh possibilities up....

Dan considered foul play because she had seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. Even the police stated at one point that they didn’t think she was still in the area. There was a chance she’d hitched a lift or met someone else and was no longer in those mountains.

Add to that, as seen in so many cases, families will push the foul play narrative because it ramps up public interest and puts pressure on authorities to continue the investigation. I very much doubt foul play is still on the table now she’s been found.

On a bit of a tangent, there will be footage to pore over from initial aerial searches, to check she was always in her final resting place.
 
On a bit of a tangent, there will be footage to pore over from initial aerial searches, to check she was always in her final resting place.

RSBM - good point, I'd not considered that. There's potentially a lot of work to be done before we can expect to hear anything significant (and non-speculative).
 
On a bit of a tangent, there will be footage to pore over from initial aerial searches, to check she was always in her final resting place.

I noticed a couple of weeks ago but didn't want to post because it's a bit morbid but bing maps have updated their satellite imagery for the location recently. It happened earlier this year after the snow had melted but before the body was discovered so could be visible. The resolution is good but probably not high enough to pick out much detail anyway.
 
Dan considered foul play because she had seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. Even the police stated at one point that they didn’t think she was still in the area. There was a chance she’d hitched a lift or met someone else and was no longer in those mountains.

Add to that, as seen in so many cases, families will push the foul play narrative because it ramps up public interest and puts pressure on authorities to continue the investigation. I very much doubt foul play is still on the table now she’s been found.

On a bit of a tangent, there will be footage to pore over from initial aerial searches, to check she was always in her final resting place.
great point in your final para
 
Although it looks OK from Otto's screen grabs, the Spanish side of Pic de la Glere is actually a cliff!
I think we need to be cautious about camera angles and lens distortion. There are a number of sharp ridges in the vicinity of the peak, and the ridge between the Pic de la Montagnette and Pic de la Glère is sharp and steep. There clearly are routes up the Pic de la Glère though. The Spanish and French blogs mentioned previously both mention easier routes in passing, though it's hard to tell, in context, how much easier they might be. It's clearly much more demanding than a typical hiking trail.
 
Thank you for saying this. I think LE has been urging from the get-go to stay out of “completist logic”. Note how far ranging their November search was: they didn’t take any testimonial for gospel. And also note LE’s reference to ED as inexperienced. LE’s statements come from their SAR experience in that region as well as statistics; this brought them outside the narrative of ED had to have gone this way and behaved like so.
I’m a big fan of following LE and SAR for guidance in missing hiker cases.
Esther Dingley's final moments still a mystery as remains may have been scattered by animals

That's a finally nicely balanced article from the good old Independent. DC's earlier conviction of foul play may have been self-persuasion. Perhaps he didn't want to believe she had some hidden crisis.

It is difficult when high-functioning people suffer poor mental health, as it's not always easy to tell they are in trouble. I think conjecture about DC is for the police.I do not want to add to his troubles by accusing him of something, which is awful as the papers all seem to be implying it when they talk about 'tensions in their relationship'. Another person might have done something at Sauvegarde, and I wonder if this has been DC's thesis.

A local would know all the ins and outs of the area. I even thought about a local authority cover-up to prevent tourism being deterred! DC probably hiked all around acknowledging a local would know where to go to conceal a body.

Then again, unfamiliar terrain will give unfamiliar results. I still think accident or suicide are the main possibilities. Or even accident under great emotional strain. When my blood sugar is low and I'm stressed, I can imagine being desperate and near a mountain top and even the physiological effects of that increasing the chances of my confusion or lack of coordination. I can get that in Tesco, never mind in the Pyrenees.

If ED did go there herself, and was not moved post mortem, I think a range of factors could have brought about her death could be quite simple, but more complex in that environment - including light failing and some poor decisions. For the sake of the family I am reticent to go all out with the suicide conclusion. I also don't want her to have suffered at all or at the hands of some dreadful person, so I resist that conclusion too, though it remains possible.

As it is, someone early this morning was stabbed to death around the corner from my house so I have to get away as there are so many police sirens and ambulances...

I really hope everyone pulls through. I'm sorry if ED made a fatal error. If she was in pain, I hope people realise that when we take our lives in our hands it can be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and there's ALWAYS someone you can turn to, however desperate things feel. I often wonder if climbers and extreme hikers have a death wish. I have walked in the area ED was in, which spooks me but makes me feel close to her in spirit. Being 'in the clouds' is exactly how it feels.

At the same time, it's an extremely rugged area and there are no circumstances in which you would find me walking there on my own in November. It's not judgment on her I issue here, but rather, wasn't her hike a kind of withdrawal that got noticed too late? It's so difficult because I don't judge DC either. I think we all need to be more educated about mental health, to help ourselves as much as anything. Social withdrawal is the single most common sign of depression there is.
 
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Revisiting my scenario of the wind catching the lightweight tent and dragging it down onto the slope... it’s a big “if” I know, but I agreed to rule it out yesterday because of the tent’s relatively low value. Today I’ve realised that the value of the tent would have been irrelevant ...Esther picked up litter from the trails, returning with “bulging pockets” I recall Dan saying. So she wouldn’t have left a tent lying about if she could possibly have helped it! It’s important we remember who Esther was, and I was forgetting.

IMO, retrieving a tent is as likely a scenario as suicide, murder or fleeing bears and carnivorous deer, if we are seeking reasons to explain why she may have deviated from the trail out onto the slopes of Pic de la Glère. Putting one of these back into your pack on your own in the wind is like wrestling with a gigantic kite...they catch the wind very easily! They can certainly unbalance you too.
 
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So basically that's the view eastwards along the so-called ridge route from Sauvegarde is it? There looks to be a bit of a path on the right of the picture.

I know it's only about 2km, but I'm finding it hard to imagine she made it along that route from Sauvegarde and to the top of Pic de la Glere on 22nd. It looks like there'd be a lot of ups and downs, unless that path on the right weaves between the higher points ans stays more level?
Here's another photograph along the ridge line, this time looking along the ridge from the summit of Pic de la Glère, again in the direction of the Pic de Sauvegarde, with the Pic de la Montagnette in between. Although snow obscures much of the detail (this was taken in June!) I can't see how this route would be walkable.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ai3F1DgSS...La+M0nta%C3%B1eta+y+Salvaguardia.+6-6-14..JPG
 
Here's another photograph along the ridge line, this time looking along the ridge from the summit of Pic de la Glère, again in the direction of the Pic de Sauvegarde, with the Pic de la Montagnette in between. Although snow obscures much of the detail (this was taken in June!) I can't see how this route would be walkable.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ai3F1DgSSog/U5RxYett6QI/AAAAAAAAdqM/gTdA-bb0oZg/s1600/30.-+La+Este+de+la+Glera+con+La+M0nta%C3%B1eta+y+Salvaguardia.+6-6-14..JPG

Wow. I mean, unless you’re a tightrope walker, that looks like an absolute no way!

Edited to add photo:

D0A2BB61-6FF4-4F85-B084-757E04B6A0B6.jpeg
 
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Wow. I mean, unless you’re a tightrope walker, that looks like an absolute no way!

But surely that's the point? She did NOT succeed. She fell.


Also I don't know why we're back to that ridge again? The falling place has been defined as between the Pic and the Port? As previously mentioned, she didn't need to reach the ridge, she could have just fallen before that?
 
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