Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

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Saturday, 10.30am, 21st Nov 2020: ED told Mr. Ballarin of her travel plans, in which she stated she was going to French town of Bagneres de Luchon and mentioned the city of Toulouse. However, after speaking to her B/F later that day, looks like something was discussed and she then altered her original agenda. (The reasons for this change of plan are not clear – maybe she had arranged to meet somebody on the following day, Sunday 22nd Nov 2020 ?)..
Esther's conversation with Mr Ballarin raises the possibility that she might have radically changed her plans at the last minute, perhaps explaining why there has been no sign of her despite extensive searches before winter blizzards set in last week.” and...“Since this conversation took place, it has become clear that Esther returned the following afternoon to the Pico Salvaguardia after a short hike in the area. This contradicts what she appeared to tell Mr Ballarin.
Their conversation took place several hours before Esther spoke to her partner, who guided investigators to her last known position and to the route she told him she was on. Rescue teams have also scoured alternative routes.


Esther Dingley: Police believe missing hiker went missing voluntarily

NB. The pics atop Sauvegarde are reportedly taken on Sat 21st & Sun 22nd. Both are very similar in composure and by the shadows cast, seem to be taken only a couple of hours apart. Could they have been taken on the same day, ie Sat 21st ? In the first pic, ED has a black top covering her neck and the backpack is off. In the second pic, ED has moved slightly further back and closer to Luchon - and has her backpack on, perhaps ready to go back down ? However, in both poses, ED seems to be deliberately positioned to the side, leaving the valley where Luchon is in the centre of the picture. If ED was high-lighting Luchon, that would seem to corroborate Mr. Ballarin's account – and suggest that, at the time of the photographs, she was definitely intending to go to Luchon as her next port of call.
(Is it possible the B/F's input may have unwittingly led SAR to focus their search more on a particular area, but away from – and in the opposite direction - to Luchon, where she may have headed ?).
 

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FRENCH and Spanish police hunting missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley are to hold a summit on her mystery disappearance after failing to find no trace of her.


Capt Bordinaro has admitted the possibility that travel blogger suffered a mountain accident is a “strong” one.

While Spanish Civil Guard cops have only admitted publicly “all options are open” but have said privately they feel the mountain accident hypothesis is the “most likely.”

Mr Bordinaro confirmed: “French officers probing Esther disappearance will meet with detectives from Huesca in Spain later this week.

“The meeting will be a face-to-face one and will take place in Spain but the day has yet to be finalised.

"We are exchanging information on a regular basis but this will be a good chance to pinpoint exactly what has been done so far and decide where we go from here.

“Because of the suspension of the mountain search we are focusing on two lines of inquiry at the moment which are that she disappeared voluntarily or someone else had a hand in her disappearance.''


BBM



''The weather that day was very warm, it was 20C in the morning and people were hiking in shorts but by the end of the day it had dropped on the French side to just below freezing - a sudden drop in temperature like that could easily have caught her out. (Expert mountain guide Patrice Lagleize)
 
So Dan narrows down the area ED was most likely to go missing was small, taking less than an hour. An area he has searched himself in addition to the SAR. My lingering thoughts are that she went down to the van and became vulnerable to some unwanted attention. In that case though she would have made some contact with DC and family.
The hiking conditions were good:
DC says she was too experienced to fall into a lake:
She was well equipped:
She communicated frequently:
DC is able to pinpoint her location within an hour window:
DC and SAR on the French and Spanish side have made extensive professional searches of a wide area:
Seems unlikely she returned to the van:
No signs of ED or any of her belongings:
ED was in good physical/mental health:
Aliens are unlikely:

Well ED didn't just vanish into thin air. No yeti's in the Pyrenees. The only thing left seems to be an abduction of some sort.
None of this is making any sense.

Hi patCee

Just reading your post, and, the part where you mention "My lingering thoughts are that she went down to the van and became vulnerable to some unwanted attention". In that case though she would have made contact with DC and family".

No, Esther wouldn't necessarily be able to make contact with DC or family. If there was a man in the vicinity who was paying her unwanted attention, and, there was no one else around, he may have tried to chat her up, or, kiss her. Even if Esther told him that she wasn't interested, things could have gone wrong very very quickly. She's so lean she could easily be scooped up by him & placed in a vehicle in a heartbeat.

I was sexually assaulted in 2017. On an overseas holiday. In the early evening, in a public place, strolling along the promenade by the sea, with my friend, on our way to a restaurant for dinner. I'm tall, quite hardy, and, strong. The attacker appeared from a side street and grabbed me. Even though he was short in height, and slim, I couldn't get away from him, he had me held in a vice like grip. He was too strong for me to have any chance of breaking free & running away. It took three men to drag him off me. A truly terrifying experience that gave me a taste of what it feels like to suddenly be attacked by a predatory male.
I'm not attempting to say that Esther was abducted, it's just a little of my personal experience that I thought I'd mention to all you guys x
MOO
 
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This is my first WS post, so please be kind. I feel deeply for the pain and anguish Esther Dingley's family and friends are experiencing. I have read every single post in this forum, from page one. I am convinced that ED’s close family and LE say what they say to media and how they say it because they know many more facts than we know.

That said, IMO, I am left with three major focal points for the mystery of what has happened to ED. And I am also left with the impression that IMO, ED could have made it further along her 11/22-25 itinerary than Dan or others think.

IMO here are my three major focal points:

1. Itinerary Discrepancy

On 11/22, ED tells her loved ones (and park authorities) of one itinerary that starts on 11/22 but 11/21 Mr. Ballarin hears of another itinerary. IMO there are three possible explanations:​

a) Mr. Ballarin misunderstood ED (language barrier) on 11/21 and ED never intended the route he heard

b) Mr. Ballarin understood ED correctly, but she changed her route on 11/22, or

c) Mr. Ballarin understood ED correctly, but she told her loved ones of an alternative route (perhaps, IMO, with an innocent intent to surprise Dan with an early return to him with plans to pick up the RV another time).​

This article has a map of the two routes (~3rd image, posted below). Can anyone verify accuracy per Ballarin?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9052621/Family-missing-hiker-vanished-Pyrenees-three-weeks-ago-issue-desperate-plea.html

Do we know if this quote is accurate?: “Rescue teams have also scoured alternative routes”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/esther-dingley-police-believe-missing-hiker-went-missing-voluntarily/ar-BB1bS3SJ

2. Cell Phone Service:

We know there was cell phone service at the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde but not at Refuge de Vénasque. And we know ED’s phone was put on Airplane Mode at about 4pm on 11/22 with no further pings. If she survived an accident - or an encounter with a hostile animal or human - and was able to call for help, IMO, she would have.​

Since she did not use her cell phone after 4pm on 11/22, IMO there are four options:​

a) ED did not have such an incident,

b) ED had such an incident, but was / is too injured or incapacitated to call for help,

c) ED had such an incident, but did not have cell service where she was / is, or

d) ED had such an incident, but she did / does not have any battery remaining.​

Do we have any information to inform us where on Esther’s itinerary (planned and possible alternative) there is cell service vs. not? And have all the “no cell service” areas been searched?​

3. Refuge de Vénasque:

The LE say ED did not stay at the refuge the night of 11/22 or any night (e.g., 11/21) for that matter, I presume. But it is not completely clear to me if we should interpret that as defining whether Esther made it to that point in either itinerary. IMO, ED could have made it to the Refuge but did not stay inside per these possible scenarios:​

a) ED went for lake water before entering the Refuge and drowned (as others have discussed)

b) ED stayed the night outdoors in her tent at the Refuge and left no trace of being there (although would her urine or excrement be picked up by tracking dogs?),

c) ED continued walking the trail at dusk, passing the Refuge for whatever reason, like, IMO:​

i. ED found no running water at the Refuge and wanted to get to a stream in the woods ahead,
ii. ED was spooked by something and felt the need to keep moving to hide in the woods, or
iii. ED never planned to stop at the Refuge but rather camp further down her route.

Do we know more specifically about how the search teams ruled out Esther was not at the Refuge? And if it was due to her scent getting lost to the search dogs, where was that point exactly?

Further, do we know if ED’s scent was even picked up by tracking dogs at the Port de Vénasque, which she would have had to pass through to get to the Refuge de Vénasque from Pic de Sauvegarde?​

Clearly I've asked more questions than I've answered here! I look forward to others' thoughts!
 

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Saturday, 10.30am, 21st Nov 2020: ED told Mr. Ballarin of her travel plans, in which she stated she was going to French town of Bagneres de Luchon and mentioned the city of Toulouse.

Personally I don't put too much store in that conversation as they were both speaking in French not the first language of either. She could easily have been talking about her plans regarding going back to the farmhouse. Unless they were both fluent in French I'd say future tense type sentences are easy to misinterpret.

NB. The pics atop Sauvegarde are reportedly taken on Sat 21st & Sun 22nd. Both are very similar in composure and by the shadows cast, seem to be taken only a couple of hours apart. Could they have been taken on the same day, ie Sat 21st ?

That's possible and crossed my mind. From reading the statement from LBT/DC it appears LE have gone through everything on DC's phone so would have thought they could validate the timestamps - on the posts/message certainly, and possibly the pictures (from what I can see the EXIF data from photos gets stripped off by Whatsapp, for privacy reasons no doubt, but if they can get cooperation from Facebook they might also be able to get that info). Also don't forget we have the skier witness placing her near the top of Sauvegarde on 22nd.
 
Saturday, 10.30am, 21st Nov 2020: ED told Mr. Ballarin of her travel plans, in which she stated she was going to French town of Bagneres de Luchon and mentioned the city of Toulouse. However, after speaking to her B/F later that day, looks like something was discussed and she then altered her original agenda. (The reasons for this change of plan are not clear – maybe she had arranged to meet somebody on the following day, Sunday 22nd Nov 2020 ?)..
Esther's conversation with Mr Ballarin raises the possibility that she might have radically changed her plans at the last minute, perhaps explaining why there has been no sign of her despite extensive searches before winter blizzards set in last week.” and...“Since this conversation took place, it has become clear that Esther returned the following afternoon to the Pico Salvaguardia after a short hike in the area. This contradicts what she appeared to tell Mr Ballarin.
Their conversation took place several hours before Esther spoke to her partner, who guided investigators to her last known position and to the route she told him she was on. Rescue teams have also scoured alternative routes.


Esther Dingley: Police believe missing hiker went missing voluntarily

NB. The pics atop Sauvegarde are reportedly taken on Sat 21st & Sun 22nd. Both are very similar in composure and by the shadows cast, seem to be taken only a couple of hours apart. Could they have been taken on the same day, ie Sat 21st ? In the first pic, ED has a black top covering her neck and the backpack is off. In the second pic, ED has moved slightly further back and closer to Luchon - and has her backpack on, perhaps ready to go back down ? However, in both poses, ED seems to be deliberately positioned to the side, leaving the valley where Luchon is in the centre of the picture. If ED was high-lighting Luchon, that would seem to corroborate Mr. Ballarin's account – and suggest that, at the time of the photographs, she was definitely intending to go to Luchon as her next port of call.
(Is it possible the B/F's input may have unwittingly led SAR to focus their search more on a particular area, but away from – and in the opposite direction - to Luchon, where she may have headed ?).
Not much time these days for joining in the thread, but I have a quick read every morning to keep up.

I noticed in that first picture attachment that there appears to be a small red/pink plastic bag tied at the top, placed on the ground closer to the phone mast, and what may or may not be a walking stick. I would venture to guess that would be food provisions, since she had a similar plastic bag on the table in a facebook photo posted 18th Nov.

I just thought it might be interesting that it looks like she was carrying provisions with her on that date, 21st?, which I think came from an instagram post.

MOO
 
This is my first WS post, so please be kind. I feel deeply for the pain and anguish Esther Dingley's family and friends are experiencing. I have read every single post in this forum, from page one. I am convinced that ED’s close family and LE say what they say to media and how they say it because they know many more facts than we know.

That said, IMO, I am left with three major focal points for the mystery of what has happened to ED. And I am also left with the impression that IMO, ED could have made it further along her 11/22-25 itinerary than Dan or others think.

IMO here are my three major focal points:

1. Itinerary Discrepancy

On 11/22, ED tells her loved ones (and park authorities) of one itinerary that starts on 11/22 but 11/21 Mr. Ballarin hears of another itinerary. IMO there are three possible explanations:​

a) Mr. Ballarin misunderstood ED (language barrier) on 11/21 and ED never intended the route he heard

b) Mr. Ballarin understood ED correctly, but she changed her route on 11/22, or

c) Mr. Ballarin understood ED correctly, but she told her loved ones of an alternative route (perhaps, IMO, with an innocent intent to surprise Dan with an early return to him with plans to pick up the RV another time).​

This article has a map of the two routes (~3rd image, posted below). Can anyone verify accuracy per Ballarin?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9052621/Family-missing-hiker-vanished-Pyrenees-three-weeks-ago-issue-desperate-plea.html

Do we know if this quote is accurate?: “Rescue teams have also scoured alternative routes”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/esther-dingley-police-believe-missing-hiker-went-missing-voluntarily/ar-BB1bS3SJ

2. Cell Phone Service:

We know there was cell phone service at the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde but not at Refuge de Vénasque. And we know ED’s phone was put on Airplane Mode at about 4pm on 11/22 with no further pings. If she survived an accident - or an encounter with a hostile animal or human - and was able to call for help, IMO, she would have.​

Since she did not use her cell phone after 4pm on 11/22, IMO there are four options:​

a) ED did not have such an incident,

b) ED had such an incident, but was / is too injured or incapacitated to call for help,

c) ED had such an incident, but did not have cell service where she was / is, or

d) ED had such an incident, but she did / does not have any battery remaining.​

Do we have any information to inform us where on Esther’s itinerary (planned and possible alternative) there is cell service vs. not? And have all the “no cell service” areas been searched?​

3. Refuge de Vénasque:

The LE say ED did not stay at the refuge the night of 11/22 or any night (e.g., 11/21) for that matter, I presume. But it is not completely clear to me if we should interpret that as defining whether Esther made it to that point in either itinerary. IMO, ED could have made it to the Refuge but did not stay inside per these possible scenarios:​

a) ED went for lake water before entering the Refuge and drowned (as others have discussed)

b) ED stayed the night outdoors in her tent at the Refuge and left no trace of being there (although would her urine or excrement be picked up by tracking dogs?),

c) ED continued walking the trail at dusk, passing the Refuge for whatever reason, like, IMO:​

i. ED found no running water at the Refuge and wanted to get to a stream in the woods ahead,
ii. ED was spooked by something and felt the need to keep moving to hide in the woods, or
iii. ED never planned to stop at the Refuge but rather camp further down her route.

Do we know more specifically about how the search teams ruled out Esther was not at the Refuge? And if it was due to her scent getting lost to the search dogs, where was that point exactly?

Further, do we know if ED’s scent was even picked up by tracking dogs at the Port de Vénasque, which she would have had to pass through to get to the Refuge de Vénasque from Pic de Sauvegarde?​

Clearly I've asked more questions than I've answered here! I look forward to others' thoughts!

Hi, that's a great summary IMO and it's clear you've checked all the upthread stuff :)

As for the questions I think they are all things we'd like to know but certainly not ones that I could answer.

In section 1 I tend towards a) but b) and c) can't be ruled out based on what we know.

Re section 3 that's certainly been a recurring thought of mine that she could have used the refuge or camped there and not left a trace, but without the answers to the questions you ask it's plainly just speculative.
 
Not much time these days for joining in the thread, but I have a quick read every morning to keep up.

I noticed in that first picture attachment that there appears to be a small red/pink plastic bag tied at the top, placed on the ground closer to the phone mast, and what may or may not be a walking stick. I would venture to guess that would be food provisions, since she had a similar plastic bag on the table in a facebook photo posted 18th Nov.

I just thought it might be interesting that it looks like she was carrying provisions with her on that date, 21st?, which I think came from an instagram post.

MOO

Well spotted I missed both of those, but can see them clearly now, especially the sticks. There's a close up of them leaned against the rock on the 3rd picture in the series from 21st on IG Login • Instagram
 
Hi patCee

Just reading your post, and, the part where you mention "My lingering thoughts are that she went down to the van and became vulnerable to some unwanted attention". In that case though she would have made contact with DC and family".

No, Esther wouldn't necessarily be able to make contact with DC or family. If there was a man in the vicinity who was paying her unwanted attention, and, there was no one else around, he may have tried to chat her up, or, kiss her. Even if Esther told him that she wasn't interested, things could have gone wrong very very quickly. She's so lean she could easily be scooped up by him & placed in a vehicle in a heartbeat.

I was sexually assaulted in 2017. On an overseas holiday. In the early evening, in a public place, strolling along the promenade by the sea, with my friend, on our way to a restaurant for dinner. I'm tall, quite hardy, and, strong. The attacker appeared from a side street and grabbed me. Even though he was short in height, and slim, I couldn't get away from him, he had me held in a vice like grip. He was too strong for me to have any chance of breaking free & running away. It took three men to drag him off me. A truly terrifying experience that gave me a taste of what it feels like to suddenly be attacked by a predatory male.
I'm not attempting to say that Esther was abducted, it's just a little of my personal experience that I thought I'd mention to all you guys x
MOO
I guess if she tried to return to the van her phone would be active fairly quickly and she would have made contact before reaching the road. The general opinion is that it would be impossible to kidnap someone on the mountain.
As you experienced it would be difficult for a women to match the strength of a man.
 
I am glad DC has been cleared. I did wonder at times though if he had given LE and SAR wrong information regarding the search area. The planned joint LE meeting is good news. Let's hope for a positive outcome.
 
He has not been cleared, but is currently a witness, not a suspect.

Seems hard to tell. The LE have given the impression they are satisfied with his movements being accounted for, but guess that's not quite the same as cleared.
 
The refuge is bigger than I expected. Could someone unsavoury have been ‘hiding’ there when ED arrived? And she forced further along the route? I hope not.

I think it all depends on how thorough the searches have been. I don't know how much resources police would typically put into doing close forensics (such as looking for DNA traces,fingerprints etc) in a hiker missing in the mountains search. If they are as convinced as they seem to be that she's not still up there as a result of an accident then I would hope they have examined it that closely.
 
If they are as convinced as they seem to be that she's not still up there as a result of an accident .

quote edited down BBM for clarity

From what I’ve seen online (links in this thread and my own searches) and read here I read the LE’s statement more as “since we can’t actively search the mountain for ED we’ll be spending out time examining the other possibilities while we wait for better weather”.

Now that’s just my opinion based on the LE statements not being in English and having to be translated and the usual issues with media sources not being hyper accurate with what they say and how it sounds to me when I read them.


My money is still on it being an accident up the mountain (or at least an incident that didn’t involve anyone else) vs any other party involved. I haven’t seen anything so far reported anywhere (putting speculation as side) that would make me think otherwise.
 
He has not been cleared, but is currently a witness, not a suspect.

Re- "He has not been cleared"....Oh yes he has...Oh no he hasn't...Oh yes he has....It's panto time.....

Posted yesterday by Sillybilly :

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed as they violate Websleuths TOS (aka The Rules, linked in my signature).

For our newer members and as a reminder to our more veteran members:

Do not state opinion as fact without MSM or LE to substantiate the fact. IF it is your opinion, make that clear in your post by adding IMO, JMO, etc.

Discussing what someone has said in MSM is fine, but insinuating their involvement or making direct accusations violates Websleuths victim friendly policy. If/when a person is officially named by LE to be a POI/suspect, they may then be discussed as a POI/suspect and may be sleuthed at that time, not before.

With respect to whether or not anyone has been cleared, Websleuths relies on information from official sources in that regard (i.e. MSM or LE). While the LBT is an admirable agency that is supportive of families of missing persons, they are not an official source for information at Websleuths. (Having said that, I now see that a link has just been provided to MSM that includes a statement from LE that DC has been cleared. Do not discuss him as a POI or suspect.)
 
q
From what I’ve seen online (links in this thread and my own searches) and read here I read the LE’s statement more as “since we can’t actively search the mountain for ED we’ll be spending out time examining the other possibilities while we wait for better weather”.
<snipped for focus>

I recollect after the initial searches and before the weather deteriorated the prevailing opinion was that she wasn't up there, but that may have changed.

From Esther & Dan

"However, with no result day after day, taking into account Esther's high level of experience, the nature of the terrain, the good weather she would have had, the fact she had a clearly defined route for Sunday evening and Monday, and various other factors, both search coordinators have essentially told me that although they can never be 100% sure, the prevailing opinion in the search teams is that she isn't there. That if she had fallen from one of the paths, they really would have expected to find her given the intensity, the closeness of the search and the fact most of the trails are really quite straightforward across open ground."​
 
Re- "He has not been cleared"....Oh yes he has...Oh no he hasn't...Oh yes he has....It's panto time.....

Posted yesterday by Sillybilly :

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed as they violate Websleuths TOS (aka The Rules, linked in my signature).

For our newer members and as a reminder to our more veteran members:

Do not state opinion as fact without MSM or LE to substantiate the fact. IF it is your opinion, make that clear in your post by adding IMO, JMO, etc.

Discussing what someone has said in MSM is fine, but insinuating their involvement or making direct accusations violates Websleuths victim friendly policy. If/when a person is officially named by LE to be a POI/suspect, they may then be discussed as a POI/suspect and may be sleuthed at that time, not before.

With respect to whether or not anyone has been cleared, Websleuths relies on information from official sources in that regard (i.e. MSM or LE). While the LBT is an admirable agency that is supportive of families of missing persons, they are not an official source for information at Websleuths. (Having said that, I now see that a link has just been provided to MSM that includes a statement from LE that DC has been cleared. Do not discuss him as a POI or suspect.)

Stated by Admin - Sillybilly - 1376
The only agency WS relies upon regarding an individual's official status in any investigation is law enforcement via MSM. While members may discuss what is said in the LBT release by DC himself or the family, to conclusively state that he is "cleared" has not been stated by LE in MSM. The Chronicle article quotes LE as saying he is "not a suspect". This does not necessarily equate to having been cleared (only that he is not a suspect). There is a difference.
 
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