'Splain' this 1 for me please....About Bedwetters:

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by angelwngs, Sep 12, 2006.

  1. angelwngs

    angelwngs New Member

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    (Please excuse the rambling nature of this post... The Questions running through my head are totally confusing me. Please help me correct any mistakes in events I may have incorrect.)

    Patsy's repeated comments that JBR was "zonked out" just keep ringing in my ears. It seems as if they were a slip of the tongue, admitting partial truths or words repeated and so "over emphasized" that they seem as if they were a 'sub-conscious' justification for why the "accident happened" from the "guilty" feelings running through her head...???...:waitasec: Maybe they were, in part, said to prevent other related questions from ever being asked by investigators.

    If a child who frequently wets the bed is asleep before being put to bed, what parent carries a sleeping child inside the house asleep, following an evening out, changes them into bed clothes and does NOT carry them to the potty before putting them in the bed and/or puts on pull-ups?????:waitasec: If JBR wasn't asleep when she returned home, surely one of the R's made sure she "went" before JBR was changed for bed, but I remember NO MENTION of 'potty time'. Do any of you?

    (We don't know whether BR's 1st account of JBR helping to carry 'things' inside when they returned home or whether JR and PR's accounts of JBR being asleep when they got home is correct. It really doesn't matter, either way, any parent would take their child to the potty before putting them to bed.(Especially with a history of bedwetting and no time to deal w/wet bedding and wet night clothes w/ an early morning trip planned.) At worst, if the parent was really lazy and didn't take her to potty she would most likely STILL put pull-ups on them before putting them to bed if she went to the trouble to change her into night clothes! But there were no pull-ups on her in the accounts of PR putting her to bed! PR never admitted putting pull-ups on JBR when she changed her for bed nor that she took her to the bathroom. Correct??? No pull-ups were found on her body, but it was evident that the bag of pull-ups had been altered and had been used recently. Maybe she had the pull-ups ready to put on JBR but never got the chance to put them on her...)

    Has anyone ever read anything in recounts of that evening in which LE ASKED PR or JR if they took JBR to the potty before putting her into bed?

    PR admitted to the usual schedule including waking JBR to potty around 12AM. Correct? Were there no questions by investigators about no pull-ups, no potty trip before changing her for bed?? I haven't found anything in transcripts along this line of questioning... Have any of you???

    Could PR have been too rough or too careless undressing/redressing an already sleepy JBR, at the potty before she put her to bed, and she accidently caused the (accidental) blow to the head near the potty or bathtub?

    Could the lie about JBR being "zonked out" have been fabricated to set up an answer to the inevitable question by LE of "Why didn't you take JBR to the potty before putting her to bed?" :waitasec: Maybe she did...and a tired, sleepy, ill JBR was difficult and that is where the accident happened. That would explain the need to say JBR was "Zonked Out".

    In any event, I think PR's repeated words that JBR was "Zonked Out" are very telling. At one point at least, during the evening's events, JBR would indeed have been described as "Zonked Out". Those two words, IMO, tell more than PR ever wanted anyone to realize.
     
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  3. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I only had one bed wetter. Going potty didn't stop him from wetting the bed. If it did, he wouldn't have been a bedwetter.

    I think the holidays are just tiring in general and lots of late nights and parties. I believe JBR would have been zonked out and very tired and their scenario sounds very reasonable to me. Maybe didn't even bother going potty because it just didn't matter.
     
  4. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    My 3-year-old is still night training. Whenever I have tried to wake him to put him on the potty b/4 I go to bed, he screams bloody murder and will not cooperate. So I just don't even try...just rely on pull-ups!
     
  5. angelwngs

    angelwngs New Member

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    I have to laugh at the memories I am pulling up of me standing behind my little one at the potty and him with eyes closed, nodding off again into a deeper sleep, and my trying to awaken him enough to "potty". I took both of my sons before bed, but maybe I am the exception. :confused:
     
  6. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    My mom always took me and my sisters before bed too. I don't think it's uncommon...it just never worked with either of my boys. My six year old drinks a big glass of water b/4 going to bed and he has been staying dry through the nite since he was 3. Kids are just different, I guess.
     
  7. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    I have one kid who had no issues and one who could not be woken up. In fact, she STILL has a hard time waking up, ten years later. She sleepwalks sometimes still. Children are so different.

    I really do not think the bedwetting was an issue. There may be reasons to argue RDI, but bedwetting is not one of them.
     
  8. Jolynna

    Jolynna Active Member

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    My oldest child was a bedwetter, but not the other two. It would not have occurred to me to put even the non-bedwetters in bed without taking them to the potty first. It was routine, along with teethbrushing and at least washing hands, feet and face (if there wasn't time for a bath).

    I do not believe that Patsy didn't at a minimum wash JonBenet off before dinner with the Whites on the 25th. Didn't the Ramseys do stockings with candy? I remember what my kids were like after a morning of stocking treats and playing with toys on the floor. When my kids were little, unless they had been freshly bathed, they were wiped off before being taken out.

    The next day, after her daughter had been found dead, I would think Patsy would have been going over the previous day mentally, over and over again trying to remember anything and everything. (for clues) I think she, for sure, would know even years later whether or not she had given her daughter a bath and just about everything that had happened around that time.

    That she was evasive (like Melinda Duckett) and says she doesn't remember, makes me think she has something to hide. And that something happened so that she wants to put all of that time out of her mind.
     
  9. Jolynna

    Jolynna Active Member

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    I realize that having your daughter murdered would not be easy to think about. But, I believe, that the desire to find justice and get the horrible killer off of the streets to keep other children safe would keep Patsy thinking and going over every detail she could come up with.
     
  10. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    Sounds like she's trying to hide something there, for sure.But that doesn't explain the pineapple,which she seems to have eaten after she got home.I'm guessing she got up for a bit and had a snack (if she went to bed right away),and then back to bed and a bedwetting accident occured after that.Or maybe it occured as she was eating her snack at the table,1/2 asleep.And that's when PR lost it.JAT.
     
  11. Jolynna

    Jolynna Active Member

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    The pineapple is, in my opinion, a smoking gun.

    In one of their interviews, a Ramsey (I think it was Patsy) says that she could hear the refrigerator opened from her bedroom. (Except for that night evidently) She also says JonBenet couldn't get the pineapple herself. And that no Ramsey gave JB pineapple on the 25th.

    Which means the intruder had to be the one to feed JonBenet the pineapple. And that the intruder had to have hung around for at least 2 more hours in the Ramsey house (where ANYBODY could get out of bed ANYTIME) before killing JB. We know this because the pathologist said the pineapple had to have been in JB's system for at least 2 hours to be at the point it was at before death stopped her digestive process.

    With two hours to kill and since he had already wandered around the house to find a pen and notepad and some pineapple and John's paycheck stubs with $118,000, the intruder would see the security alarm was still off.

    So, why would that intruder climb on a suitcase that was bound to be knocked over in that room full of junk to go out a little broken window with glass particles and a heavy metal grate? Instead of a door?

    Oh yeah, he also trickily pulled a chair and stuff in front of the train room door so it wouldn't look as if anyone had been there. AND closed JonBenet's door to be open three inches, just the way her mother always left it.

    Sex-crazed pedophiles don't sit around with their victims waiting for them to finish eating a dish of pineapple. They just don't.

    The intruder is no more real than John Mark Karr's Lear Jet that took him to Boulder.
     
  12. SleuthingSleuth

    SleuthingSleuth New Member

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    I agree...I also consider the pineapple a smoking gun.
    Burke contradicted his parents story as to how Jonbenet entered the house (this may have been a flub up on his part in telling). When he was asked whether he'd had any pineapple that night, he answered with a "I don't remember".

    The idea an intruder actually fed Jonbenet pineapple is ludicrous...so ludicrous that the pineapple ends up vanishing from intruder scenarios.

    An intruder would indeed have no reason to go back out the basement window after hanging around the house for so long. He'd just use a back door. (the suitcase was in a lousy place to help boost a person up the basement window anyways).

    The Ramseys story of Jonbenet being out cold and just put to bed when they got home is simply a way for them to avoid any further questions in certain areas.
    As of such, they can never admit anything about the pineapple without wrecking their story.
    According to Burke though, she was awake when they got home.
     
  13. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    About bedwetting, to regress for a minute.

    MY beautiful grandaughter Ariel was a bedwetter until age 13. It was awful, as she ruined more matresses that had to be tossed out and took the heat for doing what she did when she was sleeping.

    She spent every other weekend at my house, so we went through it's resulting problems together. The leather couch she wanted to sleep on {with sheets of course, and it was extremely comfortable} was put out by the dumpster one day as it was totally ruined and I had to get it out of my house.

    So I thought, gee, if she wears adult pull-ups', then it will be contained if she errs. The problem though was she was not ready yet, and each one got wet, and unbenownst to me, was hurled in a corner in the back bedroom. The room started having an oder, and months later I disacovered them lying in the corner like the garbage that they were, especially to her.

    She wasn't ready. There was something that did not click in her brain while she was asleep, and I know that because we tried everything. Her body needed to come up to peace with what she was so used to doing.

    She is 15 now, and I am quite sure the clock in her brain caught up with her age. It is like a 13 year old boy whose nose, hands and feet are way too big proportianately {sp ;} for his body. The body will catch up, and suddenly everything will appear in sinque. It will match. Same goes for that little clock that tells you when you need to go pee!

    Scandi
     
  14. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    I feel bad for Ariel, and am glad to hear her body has caught up. Those must have been trying years, especially for her.

    It should be noted, though, that JonBenet's problem was not just contained to bed-wetting...she was known to wet herself throughout the course of the day, when she was wide awake and active. That makes it an entirely different situation.
     
  15. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    It is indeed highly unusual for a six-year-old to still wet herself throughout the day. I think it was the housekeeper (correct me if I'm wrong) who said that JB's underpants were always wet.
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    This little girl was still in diapers, for crying out loud!
     
  17. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    Good point. I don't believe anyone thinks PR just decided she'd kill her daughter one day to prevent the wetting of another set of sheets.

    But if one sees toilet training (including bed wetting) in general as a long power struggle between parent and child (and I just got back from a week with the grandchildren and it certainly is a struggle), then a disagreement over toilet training might have been the context in which a violent accident occurred.

    (To be fair to my daughter, son-in-law and grandkids, there was no violence, no abuse. But it's clear there's a certain amount of tension over who decides when it is "potty time" and why.

    As I've said here before, I think accidents outside the home cause more stress than bedwetting because outside accidents reflect badly on the parents and, after a certain age, aren't really something a parent can "just let slide.")
     
  18. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    My son was in pull-ups at age 5.I don't know as that's so unusual.Dr said not to dwell on it,and that he would go when he was ready.He was just a strong-willed child and that was his way of controlling us.Once we stopped trying,he started to go on his own.
     
  19. julianne

    julianne Former Member

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    I understand what you're saying, but it is also true that a major traumatic event can cause short and long term memory loss. That is a proven scientific fact. Don't know if it applies in this case, just saying that it is entirely plausible when she states she doesn't remember, that she really doesn't. You cant get much more of major traumatic event than your child being murdered.
     
  20. julianne

    julianne Former Member

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    You're right--it really isn't so unusual. I've worked in pediatric medical offices, and a 5 year old in pull-ups is not such an unusual occurrence as some would think.

    For that matter, the daytime accidents also happen with children of that age more frequently than one would think. It is not common for a pediatric urologist to see patients for this reason.
     
  21. SleuthingSleuth

    SleuthingSleuth New Member

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    I myself feel less concerned about the bedwetting per se, and more about the defecation problems I've heard Jonbenet was having.

    If that was so...that really wasn't normal.
     

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