Starting from scratch

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believe09

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I almost want to start all over again with Mr. Kyle's case. For example, he has had a lot of media attention, a lot of law enforcement attention and a lot of internet attention but it has not yielded any kind of substantial result. I want to start a thread of what we know to be true and what has the material to back it up. Perhaps once we revisit some of this, we can see where the holes are that might be preventing a conclusive result for this man....make any sense?
 
Mr. Kyle has well documented scars. We do not know what all of the scars are from however, so let's relist them here without the speculation as to what caused them unless it has been confirmed.

  • Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.) XRAYS documented a 5 inch pin.
  • Surgical scar on front of neck.
  • Small round scar on left side of face near chin.
 
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) There is anecdotal information indicating that cataract surgery may change the color of the iris, but I could not find any studies to verify this. In otherwords, I am not 100% that his eye color now is the same distinctive color it was prior to his surgery.
 
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:
  • Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side of mouth. (I do not know which teeth specifically.)
  • Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.
Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS. His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.
 
Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS. I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose. His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.
 
believe09: This is a great idea.

Found by a Burger King dumpster 6am to 6:30am, Richmond Hills, GA.
on 8/31/2004.
3 blows to right side of head.
fire ant bites.
barely conscious.
naked.
back hurt.
cataracts in eyes.
sunburned.
 
Indianapolis Memories:
Memories of Indiana state fair and grilled cheese sandwiches for a quarter.
(verified by those who remember the grilled cheese vendor)
Soldiers and Sailors monument.
Woolworth's on the Circle.
White River.
Indiana Theater.
 
Denver memories:
Univ. of CO library.
Reading Restaurant and Institutions magazine in library.
Round the Corner restaurant.
Construction of mass transit there.
....1970's to early 1980's time period....
 
believe09: This is a great idea.

Found by a Burger King dumpster 6am to 6:30am, Richmond Hills, GA.
on 8/31/2004.
3 blows to right side of head.
fire ant bites.
barely conscious.
naked.
back hurt.
cataracts in eyes.
sunburned.

Hey Dream-thanks!!!

BK has not reviewed his medical records or EMT reports that I have been told-initially the reports were cost prohibitive to obtain and then he told me they were in possession of the Dr Phil show. I do not have independent verification of any of the above, other than he had cataract surgery and he was legally blind when he was discovered. I don't believe that he knows the exact state he was in when found either unless something has changed-he will likely sign in and let us know.

So, let make note of the sources of the above so that we can keep straight who is saying what, lol, so we know what blanks to fill in.
 
Hey Dream-thanks!!!

BK has not reviewed his medical records or EMT reports that I have been told-initially the reports were cost prohibitive to obtain and then he told me they were in possession of the Dr Phil show. I do not have independent verification of any of the above, other than he had cataract surgery and he was legally blind when he was discovered. I don't believe that he knows the exact state he was in when found either unless something has changed-he will likely sign in and let us know.

So, let make note of the sources of the above so that we can keep straight who is saying what, lol, so we know what blanks to fill in.
=====================
I thought BK answered this on questions for Benjaman thread.
I will check.
 
07-26-2009, 11:30 AM Replies: 195
thread_hot.gif
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76866"]Questions Specifically for Benjaman[/ame]
Views: 6,236
Posted By [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=46206"]Benjaman[/COLO"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3988842#post3988842"]Dr. Phil gave us all the Medical records- there...[/ame]

Dr. Phil gave us all the Medical records- there was nothing that I had already been told



Found it.
So, Benjaman K does have his medical records.
yay
 
While starting from scratch, can we revisit those that were ruled out, particularly because of eye color? Also, what has been the final concensus on military fingerprints? I ask, because I thought it had been determined that there may be evidence that not everyone was fingerprinted in the military. There is someone that was ruled out because of fingerprints that I feel we should investigate further.
 
Can anyone find a post from Mr. Kyle or Nurse Betty, or even a clip from the EMT's, that specifically states what his physical condition was when found? I am starting to wonder if some of the media has taken on a life of it's own...for example, in the latest article by the OC Register, it states his cataracts were forming over time. IIRC, it had always been Mr. Kyle's position that his cataracts were traumatic and directly related to his condition when found.

Dream states that he had three depressions on the side of his skull-I do not recall having read that or having been told that although I am incredibly fallible given the volume of data on poor Mr. Kyle!!!

I am trying to sift out fact from speculation if that makes any sense...and to Julessleuthers point, I think that the fingerprint data on Mr. Kyle is pretty solid. If there are military personnel who have been ruled out on the basis that they should have been fingerprinted, I think we should bring them back into the pool if there are other compelling charecteristics...JMO...
 
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip


OK, so here is a partial statement from a first responder regarding the fact that he had sores, no clothing and was unresponsive. She does not say fire ant bites, sunburned, or indicates he had any injuries...so lets see what we can find that documents his injuries.
 
Can anyone find a post from Mr. Kyle or Nurse Betty, or even a clip from the EMT's, that specifically states what his physical condition was when found? I am starting to wonder if some of the media has taken on a life of it's own...for example, in the latest article by the OC Register, it states his cataracts were forming over time. IIRC, it had always been Mr. Kyle's position that his cataracts were traumatic and directly related to his condition when found.

Dream states that he had three depressions on the side of his skull-I do not recall having read that or having been told that although I am incredibly fallible given the volume of data on poor Mr. Kyle!!!

I am trying to sift out fact from speculation if that makes any sense...and to Julessleuthers point, I think that the fingerprint data on Mr. Kyle is pretty solid. If there are military personnel who have been ruled out on the basis that they should have been fingerprinted, I think we should bring them back into the pool if there are other compelling charecteristics...JMO...

I'm sending you a few things I have PM'd myself.
edit - your inbox is full..

Roselvr said:
single post here

8/31/04, Found behind BK, next 2 dumptser, US17, Richmond Hill, Savannah (US INT 8 Exit 87)
Markings, scar across front neck, 2 scars on elbow.
5'11", 240, large frame, brown hair, blue/green eyes.

From what I can gather and what has been mentioned he is well mannered, has knowlege of restaurant bldgs, supplies and equipment. Seems to know a lot about buildings in general.

Memories: Indiana, Colorado, 3 Brothers, name of Benjaman spelling, catholic school

Possibles (One I couldn't find ellimated or follow up on):
AJ1020 suggested Thomas Ray James, MI. What happened with this?
also, Timothy A Felton??

MaconChange posted Steve Dewey...need to discuss with Betty and Mr Kyle more to see why
they are so sure it's not him. I know for us it's easy to think it is him. But he knows what he looks like...hard for us to understand.

kaylenbabysims suggested Ronald Zellmer, kaylen? Anymore research on this?

SS-you suggested missing boater John Nance? Anything?

Dimples-you found an article about "Found Car Intesifies Search for Man"...what happened with that?
You also posted an Eric Peterson?

Mark Franzeo/CP- you all discussed a William Herbert Pear....anything?

Satemplet-Gary David Poole?

sweetpea-Larry Huff?

ShowerSinger-Kevin Muca?

KT Can-Jerry or Gerald Harlean (sp? my notes are getting sloppy

Sable-Eugene Fish?


Here are some questions I have on what has been discussed vs done:

SS-You said you would send info to Arch Dios. and info to local stations in Tulsa and OKC. Has this been done, can you copy us the emails please?

lymom3 suggested contacting today show, anyone do this yet? Please post correspondence if so?

aj1020 suggested contacting the Early Show, GMA and Today show....done? Please post correspondence if so?

Dottierainbow-you sent links to John Scoot, Wish TV....have you followed up? Can you post your correspondence?

Has anyone sent his story to WTHR or WRTV as discussed?

Oneshoe-you stated WSAV Rep said NBC/CNN picked up, can you follow up on this, please copy us will all correspondence?

MaconChange-you stated you talked with Savannah Now, Savannah PD, Richmond Hill PD, and FBI...can you please give us details ofthese conversations, including dates, whom you spoke with and a good summary of discussion?

Dimples-what happened with the MySpace incident, the final outcome?


DNA-FBI took Kyle's FINGERPRINTS and ran them in National Criminal Justice Info Serv Div. This is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

He should have his DNA taken and entered into CODIS. I have already spoke to Betty and will have this arranged at no cost to Mr Kyle.
Mr Kyle's DNA will be taken and entered in CODIS, once this is done it will run against the following indexes:
the Convicted Offender Index, Forensic Index, Arrestee Index, a Missing or Unidentified Persons Index, and a Missing Persons Reference Index.

The NE article- I know this is hitting some nerves here, HOWEVER, come on peeps....2 mill viewers..NE is not what it used to be. I think
the exposure is incredible, IMO, FWIW, and I give kudos to Benjaman and Betty for agreeing to do this story. 2 million viewers, this man is
50+, someone, somewhere, knows who is is. This is an incredible opportunity for exposure. I am onboard with it and will need volunteers to
help me weed through tips that come from the article running. christine@lightingthewayhome.org Subject Volunteer for NE article. (we will have volunteers set up to weed through then send on to more exp. volunteers (former LE) to weed through more, then on to LE/FBI whoever if tip is credible to get to that point, if that makes sense!)

Ideas that I have run across in thread that I think are good and should be pursued:
Getting Mr Kyle listed on every site possible!

SusieQ mentioned researching accidents/incidents presumed dead.

Gina M mentioned You Tube Video-I think a slideshow has been done..but I think a good video of him and story if possible (I dont' know how
to do this)

KT Can mentioned maybe he was on business trip...investigating local big businesses (we could send out emails/flyers to all)

I see you all have divided states, I say keep going, state by state, then go out to Canada then further. Great work and organization there, kudos!


The 20 yr gap has me too, need to research this more with Betty and Mr. Kyle.

I think we need extensive mapping done of the area he was found.

Here is the info on when he was first discovered:
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

ER Docs notes by christine2448 - I'm not sure where I found this
Here is the info on when he was first discovered:
Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man (not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar
hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.
 
YOU are a goddess, Rose! Cleared out my inbox fwiw, lol.

I will check in with Christine to find her source for the ER Doc reports!

The CT scan results as stated are interesting because did Mr. Kyle have outward sign of injury or trauma at the site where the depressions were? Or did he have a previous closed head injury, say from whatever caused his neck scar or elbow pin?
 
YOU are a goddess, Rose! Cleared out my inbox fwiw, lol.

I will check in with Christine to find her source for the ER Doc reports!

The CT scan results as stated are interesting because did Mr. Kyle have outward sign of injury or trauma at the site where the depressions were? Or did he have a previous closed head injury, say from whatever caused his neck scar or elbow pin?

Also look at the blog I just put online, there may be something there.

I'll see what I have saved in my documents when I get back from radiation oncology. I also think I saved links to the posts where I got the info I saved.

I tried to do it that way for later use.

I wish this forum would consider allowing gmail to be used. I keep forgetting to pull my comcast account.

just did a quick look - yes, looks like I save links to the pages with notes.
I will see about using a link site so that I can share them with you.
 
OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???

So what if they missed the fact that he had a stroke?
 
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) There is anecdotal information indicating that cataract surgery may change the color of the iris, but I could not find any studies to verify this. In otherwords, I am not 100% that his eye color now is the same distinctive color it was prior to his surgery.

I have this same eye color. I can tell you, some days my eyes are blue and some days my eyes are green. If you were to ask anyone in my family what color eyes I have, they would probably say green, because this is the color they have most of the time with a dark blue ring around the iris. If you were to ask me what color eyes I have, I would say, blue/green, depends on what I am wearing.
 
Another thought on the eyes, my daughter has the same blue/green eyes. Her eyes are mostly med to dark blue, all depends on what she wears. Also my eyes are "glassy" compared to hers.
 
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