State rests rebuttal case- thread #166

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SusieD

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If all the above is true, why were they so quick to believe Travis was a pedophile when the DT confronted them with the forged letters?

I don't think they even conceived that a (psuedo).authority figure, Nurmi, would lie to them. So why they may have been quick to "believe" it, I doubt is was resolved in their minds.

The Hughes live in a culture where authority figures are respected and listened to. Their initial reaction to such an accusation would be to believe it, no matter how outlandish it might seem. questioning it would only come after reflection.

People who are thrown into the middle of a horrible murder investigation and who are having the minutae of their lives picked apart get some slack from me.
 

ElleElle

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Apparently, it is big mystery as to what lead up to Travis getting so mad in the May25 texts.

I think it has to do with sex recording. moo


"@findthebrad really. No one knows. I've read ALL of his emails & chats with JA. Can't tell what fight was over. Big mystery"

I don't speak Twidiot... Can someone tell me who is saying what?
 

SmoothOperator

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Originally Posted by SunDawnn
Here is Arias admitting all those pictures (found) were
originally on her camera.
(start at 8:00)
http://youtu.be/6k29w7HjsVM?t=8m53s
I think this is quite significant and I wish my original
post (to this) wasn't deleted!
Arias was not there earlier in that day therefore, Travis
did not let her in. She put those earlier photos-- of her
in braids and Travis with KY-jelly (from April) on his
camera from her camera.
She most likely did this after she sneaked through the
back window (screen evidence #52) which happened to
be his office window where his camera was located. He
was probably sleeping because he told his roommate via
phone that morning, he had been up all night.
I have little doubt that Arias sneaked up to Travis while
in the shower and that was the beginning of the end.
There is no way that I will EVER think Travis invited her
in that day. No way!
While I do very much understand this strong objecting to Travis having willingly invited or allowed her in that day, June 4..and especially strongly objecting to the idea that Travis was a willing and wanting participant in the more than one sexual romps that day with Jodi..while I absolutely understand as well as have very much leaned toward those same opinions..however in the end it is what it is..

As in tho, I firmly believe Travis had zero knowledge whatsoever of Jodi's coming to Mesa, I do however firmly believe that whether her letting herself into his home..or whether he actually answered the door and allowed her to come in.. Imo the evidence clearly indicates that at some point in time on June 4 Travis did become a willing and likely even wanting participant wrt the sexual romps.. For that I fault him none.. He was merely but a human being just like all of us and was a young male who IMO very much enjoyed the sex he had with Jodi.. This is reality IMO..this is not unusual in that a young bachelor is very much sexually attracted to someone that he knows in his heart and mind is not at all a "good person".. He IMO knew full well that Jodi was a nut job.. And IMO yes, I do absolutely believe that he feared her in many regards.. I believe that this fear grew over time and that he had come to learn that she was possibly even dangerous..

Yet in my strong opinion regardless of the fact that all of the above described fear and even loathing that he had toward Jodi AND many of her actions and behaviors..even still there was the undeniable very real sexual attraction that he had to her as well.. IMO one of the jurors asked a question of ALV, A question that IMO indictates that at least one of those jurors has a very firm grasp on the exact dynamics that were at play wrt Travis and Jodi.. The question pertained to a person being stalked and wasn't it possible for that person who was being stalked by an ex to have a genuine fear wrt their stalker(in this case the stalker being Jodi) yet even tho they do have that genuine fear of what the stalker could or may be capable of doing to them..yet when the person is actually with the stalker, as in face to face their being in each others company..isn't it possible that the person may have those fears or apprehensions quelled or calmed while spending time in the company of the stalker..

IMO that juror question was dead on accurate In describing the dynamics between Travis and Jodi and that yes, Travis did have fear for what Jodi was capable of doing, and yes, Travis had even come to loathe her actions and behaviors ..yet even still when Travis was actually with Jodi, face to face in her physical presence..Travis for whatever reasons(and IMO those reasons have everything to do with sexual attraction and manipulation on the part of Jodi) that put Travis somewhat at ease..IMO the manipulation so much so on the part of Jodi that I don't doubt it likely that she even possibly had Travis second guessing himself, in his own mind once being around her that day.. Jodi putting on the persona of the passive, submissive female that praised and put Travis on a pedastol of worship.. IMO Jodi easily manipulated Travis' guard down that day and she did so for one purpose, one goal, and that was to one final time manipulate her way into a closeness that is only attained through intimacy in order to manipulate Travis into what essentially was very literally a death trap from which there was no escape..

And IMO as we know that is exactly what happened that day and Travis was unable to escape, nor survive.. Tho, IMO I do strongly believe he did put up a fierce fight for his life as much as he could after sustaining the mortal wound to the chest slicing through the superior vena cava,.. He managed to force his way out of that shower stall which I have zero doubt in my mind that Jodi intended on that stall being not only the death trap, but also being the entire crime scene and tomb as well.. As in she planned for the murder scene to be fully contained within that shower stall.. As we know that did not work out for her and she found herself instead with a massive, unexpected crime scene area as well as the issue of having to drag this grown man's dead weight back into that shower stall where she had intended on his never having left from that stall.. Its those very issues that IMO these moronic talking heads keep stating as proof that this murder was not premeditated due to she would have never planned to commit the murder and clean up the way in which it occurred..

Duh....of course she didn't plan it to happen that way.. Her plan was to have the stabbing and shooting occur contained within that shower stall.. And that simply did not work out that way due to the fact that Travis did put up much more of a fight for his life than what Jodi had planned for.. The entire murder went awry from her premeditated plans the minute that Travis was able to push out of the shower stall in attempting to flee.. IMO from there none of the following stabs and throat slicing that took place in that bathroom and hall were in Jodi's premeditated plan of the murder.. Those actions were reactive to Travis' having altered the course of her plan by being able to escape beyond that small confined place she'd intended on fully containing the horrific and bloody murder within..

So, IMO it baffles me these so called attys on TV continue to claim the above as evidence of the murder NOT being premeditated by Jodi.. When fact is its just solid evidence that our Einsteinian defendant, Jodi failed to take into account the fact that her victim would fight her for his life.. And IMO that's exactly the issue that took her plan off track and I'll be damned if I give her benefit due to being a piss poor planner.. IMO the fact she's a piss poor planner does NOT AT ALL just null and void the PREMEDITATION!.. Sorry in my world that's not how it works, that due to the fact yet another of Jodi's actions or behaviors ending up being just yet another big, epic fail on her part.. I'll be damned to allow that to benefit her in equating that to EVIDENCE that this murder was NOT premeditated!!! Bull$hit! IMO the evidence is solid and it indicates THAT THE MURDER OF TRAVIS WAS PREMEDITATED BY JODI!...>>>>>**OFF RANT NOW**<<<<<<

My apologies for veering off the specific topic of the post above, but it IMO all ties in together in that if you step back and look at the big picture and remember that Jodi's premeditated plan for this murder WAS FOR HER TO HAVE BEEN NOWHERE EVEN NEAR THE SCENE OF THE CRIME, NOWHERE EVEN NEAR MESA, OR EVEN THE STATE OF ARIZONA FOR THAT MATTER.. JODI PLANNED THIS MURDER WITH THE GOAL OF HAVING EVIDENCE INDICATING THAT SHE WAS NOWHERE NEAR THE AREA SINCE APRIL 2008..

Jodi went through what now has been seen as the confusing as hell trouble of obtaining the 3 gas cans and stocking up on gas for her travels from Northern Cali to Mesa and the back up into Nevada..along with her premeditation of having cut off all communication and tracking abilities via her cell phone..combined with the multiple other preemptive measures that she took for the sole purpose of fully concealing her presence at his home, in Mesa, or even in Arizona before, during, or after the murder of Travis.. IMO its very important to not got lost in the bull$hit that Jodi and her DT has muddied the waters with during this trial.. Forgetting that Jodi's plan very much hinged upon one very, very strong and necessary point..that point being that THERE WOULD BE ZERO, ZILCH, NIL EVIDENCE OF JODI BEING AT OR EVEN NEAR THE MURDER AT ANY TIME!.. ZERO EVIDENCE INDICATIVE OF JODI'S PRESENCE IN OR AROUND TRAVIS' HOME SINCE APRIL 2008<<--- THIS IMPORTANT FACT IS CRITICAL AND I FEAR SOME OR EVEN ANY ARE OR HAVE COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN THIS IMPORTANT, CRITICAL, AND CRUCIAL ISSUE REGARDING Jodi's premeditation, execution, and cover up of Travis' murder...

In stepping back and once again looking at the big picture, specifically the portion regarding Jodi's premeditation and what exactly that premeditation entailed.. The issue for which her entire plan was hinged upon is in FULLY CONCEALING HER PRESENCE IN ARIZONA, IN MESA, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FULLY CONCEALING HER PRESENCE IN TRAVIS' HOME AT ANY POINT NEAR, IN, OR AROUND THE DATE OF THE MURDER..<<<----EVERYTHING HINGED UPON THIS!

So, when taking that huge issue into account IMO it becomes crystal clear that such points as the pictures on Travis' camera WERE NOT PLANTED, TRANSFERRED, OR OTHERWISE FALSELY MANIPULATED INTO APPEARING TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN ON TRAVIS' CAMERA..IMO THIS ALONE, AND BY ITSELF WOULD COMPLETELY NULLIFY EVERY SINGLE PREEMPTIVE MEASURE THAT JODI HAD GONE THROUGH THE TROUBLE OF HAVING TAKEN IN ORDER TO CONCEAL HER PRESENCE IN OR NEAR THE MURDER.

For me, as I said earlier, it is what it is.. And as much as I'd like to think that Travis would have reacted harshly opposing her being in his home that day to the point of aggressively putting his foot down in forcing her to leave, and even calling for assistance if she refused...but unfortunately it is just what it is, and that is not what happened that day..IMO the main reason it didn't is because Travis was such a good hearted, kind soul.. IMO above all else(and yes, even above all issues related to sex)..IMO above all else it was Travis' kindness and goodness that opened the proverbial door that day..once open Jodi immediately took full control in manipulating the entire situation by using the sexual attraction that she knew without fail was her one stronghold on Travis.. Once his kindness allowed that door open, IMO he quickly was engulfed within her manipulation of using her most passive, submissive female persona that poured on the adoration in putting him up on that pedastol and worshipping him.. All the while her completely manipulating his guard further and further down.. Lulling him to that comfort zone of sexual satisfaction that she knew she could deliver and Travis literally being none the wiser to the fact that she was leading the willing and wanting sheep straight to the slaughter.. And that is exactly what Jodi Arias did that day..

I know for me this is not about my needing or attempting to portray Travis Alexander as this perfect Morman, perfect man, or perfect anything, because fact is he is not any of those, nor was he perfect in any way.. IMO Travis Alexander is no different than you or I.. IMO he was a flawed human with a very kind, caring, and loving heart.. Nothing more and nothing less..His being sexually attracted to Jodi is just what it is.. It is NOT abnormal, it is NOT unusual, and it certainly was NOT deserving of what was unleashed upon him that day.. It is JODI that IS the abnormal, unusual, evil individual that IS FULLY deserving of the wrath of God. It is Jodi Arias that took those wonderful qualities of kindness and caring and used them for evil, dark gain.. It is Jodi Arias that took that sexual attraction that this young, single guy had for her and twisted and used for evil, dark gain..it is Jodi Arias who manipulated everything that was good..everything that was "normal" wrt Travis and she twisted into evil manipulation to set up the exact circumstances that would allow her to carry out her premeditated plan of viciously murdering Travis..

It is Jodi Arias that IMO is the focus..its not at all that I believe Travis to have been perfect..its just the simple fact that he was just like you and me and that which was good in him..that which was "normalcy" was twisted and used by a very evil individual to carry out her slaughtering him physically in 2008.. And to only do again in slaughtering his memory, his good name, and his legacy here in 2013 throughout this trial..IMO she is the evil..she is the abnormal..and IMO its why I am always pointing out that Travis was just like you and me and it is Jodi who deserves the focus and dissection of her actions and behaviors in twisting and manipulating Travis into a position for which she could fully and completely control him now and forever in her erasing him physically and attempting to also erase his beautiful memory.. IMO its despicable..as is Jodi despicable..

My apologies for the overly lengthy droning on post that does indeed veer off from the points of the above post, but as I said it imo does all tie in together.. Anywhoo as always these are just my opinions and my view of the dynamics of the relationship and the case..
 

Truth Detector

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If we could only get the HLN guests without the hosts and their shameless standards of 'professional journalism': Their interruptions, editorializing, changing the subject right when the guest is actually mentioning some key piece of info is enough to make you want to pry your ears out with a rusty butter knife! The HLN hosts rival the Arizona livestream Courtroom sidebars in time wasting video footage. They beat the DT in terms of verbose examples of tedium.

BBM

You just de-edified the
ist2_3118097-rusty-blade.jpg

 

PrincessSezMe

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bringing this over from the previous thread.



MichaelJames
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I remained silent as I read pages upon pages of disparraging remarks against Chris and Sky Hughes, but I can no longer keep to myself.

I have developed a relationship with Chris and he is one of the most caring, concerned, helpful and compassionate people I have ever had the fortune of getting to know.

To claim that the Hughes are somehow hungry for their own fame and glory in regards to this trial is blatantly false. Chris swore he would NOT speak to anyone until the trial was over. While I was surprised when he told me he was doing the Dr. Drew show, I was glad he was. Both Chris and Sky are in AZ now...they rented a house for a month so they could support Travis' family during these last few days of testimony and also to wait with them for a verdict. While Chris was NOT under subpoena, Sky was until just a couple of days ago. It took Wilmott two days to answer Sky's inquiry as to whether or not she could be released from her subpoena.

Chris was the executor of Travis' estate. Everyone knew how important the friendship was between the Hughes and Travis. They only did 48 Hours to talk about their friend.

Chris WAS scared for Travis...he DID try reaching him. He DID reach out to friends in the Phoenix area to do a safety check on Travis. For those on this forum who pretend to know HOW they'd react if they were in the same situation, YOU HAVE NO IDEA what you would actually do!

Chris, Sky and all other players in this nightmare are forever changed. When a few days passed between our communications, imagine my surprise when the local police showed up at my home to perform a welfare check on me! Yes, Chris had contacted them. Since Travis' death, they no longer can "wait" to find out why a person (like myself) may have gone off the grid.

The Hughes are wonderful people. There's nothing insincere or phony about either of them. People ridiculed Sky for "grinning" while she was both on 48 Hours and also on the witness stand. She was nervous! There are people whose mouths are always in an apparent frown....Sky's mouth always has a hint of a smile. It's her facial features, and NOT something sinister or manipulative!

While I understand we are all entitled to our opinions, I cannot stand judgement against people who others have never met, encountered, etc.

As for the Travis Alexander Legacy Fund, this is something very near and dear to NOT ONLY Chris, but also to Travis' family and friends. Having witnessed their most loved Travis being cast as a pedophilic sexual deviant domestic violence perpetrator has served as a motivation to bring Travis' reputation back to that of the honorable, decent, kind, generous, motivated man Travis actually was. Chris has asked me to be on the board...and I can assure all of you that Chris has no intention of taking ANY salary or monies from this fund for personal gain. It's offensive to claim otherwise.

Please be mindful as you trash Chris (and indubidably Sky after tonight's episode of Dr. Drew) that the Hughes have friends on this forum and your statements are highly offensive and hurtful to those of us who know, love and respect them.

Thank you.
__________________
Michael James

Thank you for bringing this over from the other thread. I tried to reply to it, but the door closed and I lost my post.

I'm so glad you posted this Michael James. The only one that deserves to be disparaged in this case IMO is Jodi Ann Arias. And maybe her DT who have shamelessly lowered themselves into the gutter to trash the reputation of a good man.

Chris and Sky's insights into what the defendant really is come across as very honest to me, and they have not once contradicted what many of his other friends have said. I will not judge them on one e-mail, that was likely misquoted, and without context. I admire them for speaking out on behalf of Travis, and providing us with a glimpse of who HE really was.

I hope everyone who loved Travis or knew him personally gets the closure that they deserve very soon. I'm sure we WS'ers will welcome it too.


:grouphug:
 

TexMex

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Holy Mackrel, watching NG and she has JA answering Jury questions. She was almost smiling at them telling her tale of how the camera rolled. Well, not rolled, bounced a few times. Her face looked like she was reading Winnie the Pooh and talking about Tigger. Oh brother. PTSD, I don't think so! Abuse, I don't think so. No smiles ever re-telling. I almost forgot what a horrid actress she is. She would be shaking like a Chihuahua and crying a river of tears if this was remotely true.

Listen Einstein, you need to study some method acting along with all your Psych books.
Stanislavski and Lee Strasberg would not be happy.

It's really amazing. I realize with a self defense case you pretty much had to put her on the stand. But she got on the stand and lied straight to the Jury. Jurors could maybe forgive lying to LE, possibly forgive lying to family or friends after the crime but don't lie to the jury! Jurors who have taken time away from their jobs, families etc to give you a fair trial...they are taking this seriously and you lie to them?
 

kpm

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She did something awful (no one knows what), he threatened to expose her, so she killed him. <<<<< this is what I have believed to be the case. And sadly, what ever it was will die with ja.

Me too! IMO it had nothing to do with him not committing to her, he was going to expose her secret and she could not have that no way no how! Her parents gave her motive, she hid her life from them.
 

ElleElle

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And, the email Sky sent to Jodi? The one ALV referenced to.

until I had personal experience with lawyers, it never occurred to me that they just lie/make stuff up both inside and outside the courtroom.

DT tells the Hughes' they have letters where TA admits he's a pedo; Hughes' believe them because it would never occur to them that the DT would just make something like that up.

Simple.
 

MidwestMama

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I don't speak Twidiot... Can someone tell me who is saying what?

AZ:
It is a conversation between Chris Hughes and Findthebrad.

If the sentence starts with @CHughes it is FROM findthebrad TO Chris.
If the sentence starts with @findthebrad it is FROM Chris TO findthebrad.
Hope that helps :)
 

FrayedKnot

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If all the above is true, why were they so quick to believe Travis was a pedophile when the DT confronted them with the forged letters?

ITA. No matter WHAT some unscrupulous defense lawyer told me about my friend, I would not agree with it in some email (or anywhere else) unless I had an agenda.

I do not think for one daggum second that Travis was a pedophile. NO WAY NO HOW!!!!

But I do find it upsetting that Sky would so easily turn on Travis just because Nurmi told her some lie. Seriously? Gah!!!!

I cannot stress enough how insincere I find both Hugheses and I think this is EXACTLY why JM elected not to call either of them to the stand.

In stark contrast, there is the testimony of Deanna Reid. No agenda, no spin. If anything, she took a personal hit in admitting her sexual relationship to the victim, Travis. People seldom amaze me anymore, but that young woman has. I think the world of her.

The Hugheses? Not so much. I think Sky comes off as a "mean girl" and a busybody, and Chris as a guy more interested in the almighty dollar than the happiness of his "friend".

This is TOTALLY my take on these folks, and I understand others may not see things the same way. I am posting my opinions respectfully.

I certainly wouldn't feel good knowing the money I donated to the Alexanders was being administered by CH. nuh uh. Nope.
 

Schuby

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I don't think they even conceived that a (psuedo).authority figure, Nurmi, would lie to them. So why they may have been quick to "believe" it, I doubt is was resolved in their minds.

The Hughes live in a culture where authority figures are respected and listened to. Their initial reaction to such an accusation would be to believe it, no matter how outlandish it might seem. questioning it would only come after reflection.

People who are thrown into the middle of a horrible murder investigation and who are having the minutae of their lives picked apart get some slack from me.

They couldn't conceive that the story given by the man charged with defending Travis' murderer might be suspect?
 

sammijo

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The defense doesn't have to prove anything. It's the states job.
I just am having a hard time with it... Pay no attention to me... Carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But that's the whole point of the petition, a kind of grass roots movement to change that somehow.

Just because its the state's burden to prove the defendant committed the crime they're being accused of, should not mean a defendant can come into court and make outrageous, slanderous comments with absolutely no proof to back it up, just to avoid the penalty for their crimes.

I keep thinking, what if Travis were seriously harmed, but he had lived? Jodi probably would have used this same defense or accused him of something else, with no proof. Yes, he would be here to defend himself, but that accusation of abuse and pedophilia would follow him the rest of his life. You cannot un-ring that bell. It's devastating.

Consider a man who was accused of molesting his own children, all because his soon-to-be ex wasn't getting what she wanted in the divorce settlement. He was a loving father and proved innocent, but some people will look sideways at him the rest of his life.

And there are "advocates" out there like LaViolette, who are all too willing to fight on a woman's behalf to prosecute a man, with zero proof.

Some kind of change needs to at least be put on the table for consideration. The defense of "My parents abused me - I can't be held responsible for any crime I commit.", has morphed into every excuse imaginable.

This is JMHOO.
 

InALandFarFarAway

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Originally posted by MichaelJames
>snipped with respect<

Chris, Sky and all other players in this nightmare are forever changed. When a few days passed between our communications, imagine my surprise when the local police showed up at my home to perform a welfare check on me! Yes, Chris had contacted them. Since Travis' death, they no longer can "wait" to find out why a person (like myself) may have gone off the grid.

>snipped with respect<

Your post was elegant and poignant.

The days of assuming anyone in my circle is "ok" and just busy or forgetful if I haven't heard from them in a few days are gone forever.

So no, it wouldn't feel weird to call the police to do a wellness check. I'd call your parents, your boss, your ex, knock on your neighbor's door, anything until I found you personally or made contact with you.

I might even break into your house.

No shame in my game. I'd be happy to have you scream at me for the broken lock. I'd happily write a check for whatever it costs.

As far as the Hughes are concerned, they're on the side of the angels.

That is all.
 

Mrs G Norris

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Me too! IMO it had nothing to do with him not committing to her, he was going to expose her secret and she could not have that no way no how! Her parents gave her motive, she hid her life from them.

I actually assumed the family knew what these emails were about .. since it sounds like nobody knows .. perhaps this will remain one of the enduring mysteries of the case. What did she do?
 

G&AMom

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ITA, and she used the gas is cheaper in wherever place excuse, but yet she filled the gas cans in the most expensive place!

Besides, these days, people are not stranded like the old days.

Cell phones, "onstar",GPS, warranties with new vehicles, CAA/AAA. Jodi is just full of lies and that alone will get her the DP.

Another example of how poorly Jodi lies. She could have said, hey, I'm an airhead, sometimes I forget to buy gas, I've run out of gas before, so I try and remember to carry extra gas just in case. It would have made her look kind of stupid, but it would have been a whole lot more believable. And then it wouldn't matter how much the gas cost. But I guess that wasn't in whatever TV episode she was copying.
 

Linda7NJ

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Can you believe HLN are setting up screens in the street to broadcast closing arguments and the verdict? They couldn't do that here in Australia, people would be running around with their shirts off wearing the Australian flag as a cape and drinking beer, once the verdict was read everyone would hop in their cars and start doing burnouts while their mates hung out the windows screaming '*advertiser censored** YEAH!!!'

:rockon:

Roflmao! Sounds like Philly after a sporting event!


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