Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[missy1974]

Do you happen to remember which motion it was mentioned in missy?

I don't Karinna, and some of those motions are so long, it's hard to find lol I went back and read my post and I just want to be clear...

KZ mentioned the RAV4 being found on the 3rd because that's what the summary said. The "assumption" that it was an error or the computer system defaulted to the time of the report coming in to Sheriff's office is just from everything I've read I think in recent motions she hasn't mentioned it, so it was probably in that first post-conviction motion, the one that was a million pages long lol

 

[Karinna]

I don't Karinna, and some of those motions are so long, it's hard to find lol I went back and read my post and I just want to be clear...

KZ mentioned the RAV4 being found on the 3rd because that's what the summary said. The "assumption" that it was an error or the computer system defaulted to the time of the report coming in to Sheriff's office is just from everything I've read I think in recent motions she hasn't mentioned it, so it was probably in that first post-conviction motion, the one that was a million pages long lol

Haha, i know, that's why i thought maybe you knew roughly which one so i can skim through and find what she said exactly. Yeah that first one if i remember correctly was about 1200 pages long.
And thanks for clarifying,

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Yep. Like I said, way too dangerous.

I would never recommend anyone testify for themselves unless they had some unbelievable, next level charm and ability to stay calm. I don't know if I have ever met a single person that I think would do terribly well under cross examination.

 

[Karinna]

For anyone interested in watching this video it features retired FBI agent Steve Moore discussing the Avery/Dassey case.

 

[Mendara]

I have a question for you guys. I've watched both documentaries and I wonder can both things be true? That Avery did kill her and the police DID also plant evidence? He was arrogant when he was released, ready to get millions of dollars, thought himself a celebrity, maybe he made a pass at her and it didn't go well. I do not think his nephew was ever involved, but perhaps Avery did get into a situation with her that he couldn't get out of, and also the police wanted to be sure he was charged this time. In my mind both can be true. The idea though that the police and other non law enforcement players would all be in on the conspiracy to frame him, is a bit much in my opinion. It's like that saying goes, two people can keep a secret, but only if one is dead. This case is too high profile for anyone with exact knowledge to stay silent for so long. IMO

 

[proudfootz]

I have a question for you guys. I've watched both documentaries and I wonder can both things be true? That Avery did kill her and the police DID also plant evidence? He was arrogant when he was released, ready to get millions of dollars, thought himself a celebrity, maybe he made a pass at her and it didn't go well. I do not think his nephew was ever involved, but perhaps Avery did get into a situation with her that he couldn't get out of, and also the police wanted to be sure he was charged this time. In my mind both can be true. The idea though that the police and other non law enforcement players would all be in on the conspiracy to frame him, is a bit much in my opinion. It's like that saying goes, two people can keep a secret, but only if one is dead. This case is too high profile for anyone with exact knowledge to stay silent for so long. IMO

I thought there was a chance Avery might have committed some crime against Teresa after I first watched the documentary.

Subsequent consideration of the facts and arguments on all sides have dispelled that notion to my satisfaction.

As far as the idea that conspirators can't keep a secret, many conspiracies involving large group of people have been kept for decades. Just to pick one at random, the monstrous Tuskegee Study began in 1932 and didn't become public knowledge until 1972.

Tuskegee Study - Timeline - CDC - NCHHSTP

 

[CoolJ]

I have a question for you guys. I've watched both documentaries and I wonder can both things be true? That Avery did kill her and the police DID also plant evidence? He was arrogant when he was released, ready to get millions of dollars, thought himself a celebrity, maybe he made a pass at her and it didn't go well. I do not think his nephew was ever involved, but perhaps Avery did get into a situation with her that he couldn't get out of, and also the police wanted to be sure he was charged this time. In my mind both can be true. The idea though that the police and other non law enforcement players would all be in on the conspiracy to frame him, is a bit much in my opinion. It's like that saying goes, two people can keep a secret, but only if one is dead. This case is too high profile for anyone with exact knowledge to stay silent for so long. IMO

Yes, what you are saying is certainly a possibility, especially if your only knowledge of the case is the documentaries. From what we know for sure, it is possible Avery killed her in a completely different way than the narrative presented by the prosecution.

However, the more i research and the more evidence Zellner brings to light, it looks more and more like Avery wasn't involved at all.

At this point i would bet a lot of money he had absolutely nothing to do with the murder. Somebody or a group of somebodies was trying to frame him. I am very confident in saying that.

As far as some grand conspiracy involving numerous people, that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Regardless, groups of people keep secrets hidden for a lifetime, all the time.

 

[entrustEd]

I don't Karinna, and some of those motions are so long, it's hard to find lol I went back and read my post and I just want to be clear...

KZ mentioned the RAV4 being found on the 3rd because that's what the summary said. The "assumption" that it was an error or the computer system defaulted to the time of the report coming in to Sheriff's office is just from everything I've read I think in recent motions she hasn't mentioned it, so it was probably in that first post-conviction motion, the one that was a million pages long lol

This link shows the Rav4 being "evidence" on 11/03/2005, also uploading screen shot

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

 

[Harmony 2]

These links are old but I am posting them because there are some good questions:

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1187137394/Final+Avery+100+Questions+7-27.pdf

Zellner Offers $10,000 If You Pass Her Steven Avery Proof Of Guilt Challenge

 

[missy1974]

These links are old but I am posting them because there are some good questions:

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1187137394/Final+Avery+100+Questions+7-27.pdf

Zellner Offers $10,000 If You Pass Her Steven Avery Proof Of Guilt Challenge

I think most of those are the questions that a lot of us have been asking for the last 3 years! She just has the money to offer 10K to anyone that can answer them all haha

 

[RANCH]

I think most of those are the questions that a lot of us have been asking for the last 3 years! She just has the money to offer 10K to anyone that can answer them all haha

I wonder why Zellner even cares about Internet commentators who attack her?

She should ignore them and put all of her energy into freeing her client. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I wonder why Zellner even cares about Internet commentators who attack her?

She should ignore them and put all of her energy into freeing her client. JMO

IMO I think she thinks some prominent posters on reddit are connected to the case, which she could be right and she would not be alone in that thinking. IIRC you don't do reddit, so unless you are there reading, you may not understand that.

My thinking right now with Zellner and social media is that I think she is using it to her advantage. Love it or hate it, this case became a big thing on twitter and social media after MaM was released. She is getting tips and idea's from both sides, it really is like crowd sourcing and not having to pay a penny to do it! She throws out an idea, she gets feedback. In a way, it kind of reminds me of the show Bull, where they have mock juror's, it's just on a larger scale and I think it can be used as a productive tool. But JMO

On that note... her latest tweet from yesterday:

Tomorrow we will announce a new, important development in the Avery case about 2:30 pm CT. Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @michellemalkin @lifeafterten @BBCWorld @TheTelegraph__ @guardian @Newsweek @TheStar_news @johnferak #MakingAMurderer2 #TruthWins #WreckingCrew

We will see in a few hours ...

 

[RANCH]

IMO I think she thinks some prominent posters on reddit are connected to the case, which she could be right and she would not be alone in that thinking. IIRC you don't do reddit, so unless you are there reading, you may not understand that.

My thinking right now with Zellner and social media is that I think she is using it to her advantage. Love it or hate it, this case became a big thing on twitter and social media after MaM was released. She is getting tips and idea's from both sides, it really is like crowd sourcing and not having to pay a penny to do it! She throws out an idea, she gets feedback. In a way, it kind of reminds me of the show Bull, where they have mock juror's, it's just on a larger scale and I think it can be used as a productive tool. But JMO

On that note... her latest tweet from yesterday:

Tomorrow we will announce a new, important development in the Avery case about 2:30 pm CT. Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @michellemalkin @lifeafterten @BBCWorld @TheTelegraph__ @guardian @Newsweek @TheStar_news @johnferak #MakingAMurderer2 #TruthWins #WreckingCrew

We will see in a few hours ...

That all sounds great but I don't see how trying to prove your critics wrong on social media helps you win in the courtroom.

I hope that judges are swayed by evidence presented to them in court and not by social media posts. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

I wonder why Zellner even cares about Internet commentators who attack her?

She should ignore them and put all of her energy into freeing her client. JMO

That all sounds great but I don't see how trying to prove your critics wrong on social media helps you win in the courtroom.

I hope that judges are swayed by evidence presented to them in court and not by social media posts. JMO

As with all wrongful convictions, unfortunately you need public outrage on your side if you want to prove your innocence.

I don’t think the judges are going to be the ones who decide this case. I think KZ will negotiate a vacated conviction for Avery.

 

[proudfootz]

Public opinion is important in motivating public servants.

Some injustices are too big to ignore. It's how reform happens.

 

[RANCH]

As with all wrongful convictions, unfortunately you need public outrage on your side if you want to prove your innocence.

I don’t think the judges are going to be the ones who decide this case. I think KZ will negotiate a vacated conviction for Avery.

How do you get a vacated conviction without a judge's ruling?

 

[CoolJ]

How do you get a vacated conviction without a judge's ruling?

Attorney General can vacate i believe. I am pretty sure thats how it went down for Ryan Ferguson.

 

[missy1974]

So new development... sorry been busy!

Zellner has filed for the case to be remanded for new scientific testing.

Her tweets from yesterday (2 of the many lol)

We are pleased to announce that one of the world's leading DNA experts, Dr. Richard Selden @drrichardselden, is willing to test the bones in the Manitowoc County Gravel Pit with new Rapid DNA ID. If this testing is allowed, we believe the bones will be Ms. Halbach's.

This will prove the murder and mutilation occurred in the Manitowoc County Gravel Pit and the bones were planted in Mr. Avery's burn pit to frame him. We are available to take your questions re this news starting at 2:30 pm CDT. Use #askzellner when asking questions!

Here is a link to the motion: Dec 17 2018 Defendants Motion to Stay and Remand.pdf

(I will post when it's added to stevenaverycase.org)

There are a bunch more tweets, I encourage you all to go read them, I will try to copy them later if I have the time, but it's a busy time of year ;-) Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) | Twitter

This test was used to test the remains from the recent California fires, it's been FBI approved since June 2018 I believe. It's a good test and everyone may finally know about the quarry bones if he is allowed to test them.

IMO the lower courts should have just allowed for all the testing to just get it done and over with, this trickling of adding stuff to the record (the CD), now this... and I would be shocked if more info doesn't come out about more new evidence.

If I understand correctly, we should get an answer very quickly because if does not get remanded then she has to file her appeal on the 20th, that is 2 days from now.

ETA: I don't think she can prove that TH was murdered in the quarry with this test like she says, but it definitely puts a wrench into the State's theory. For whatever reason, they fought the fact that they 'could be' TH's bones over in the quarry. I guess because they placed SA at his burn pit for hours? The cut marks would have to explained, and she does have an explanation for that with her Bobby/ST theory, can the State come up with their own theory? When and where would SA have done that? and all before 5 pm on Halloween.

 

[RANCH]

Attorney General can vacate i believe. I am pretty sure thats how it went down for Ryan Ferguson.

It was an appeals court that overturned Ryan Ferguson's conviction.

A Missouri state appeals court panel last week overturned Ferguson's murder conviction, ruling that the prosecution withheld evidence from Ferguson's defense attorneys that could have perhaps exculpated him when he was on trial for the murder of Columbia Daily Tribune sports editor Kent Heitholt.

Ryan Ferguson Freed After a Decade in Prison for Murder

 

[CoolJ]

It was an appeals court that overturned Ryan Ferguson's conviction.



Ryan Ferguson Freed After a Decade in Prison for Murder

Yes you are correct. The AG in this case chose not to appeal or retry.