Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by Tawny, Jan 14, 2016.

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Is Steven Avery responsible for the murder of Teresa Halbach?

  1. He did it

    253 vote(s)
    29.7%
  2. Some other guy did it

    67 vote(s)
    7.9%
  3. Looks guilty at this point

    74 vote(s)
    8.7%
  4. Not guilty based on evidence I've seen thus far

    195 vote(s)
    22.9%
  5. Undecided, but believe new trial is in order

    254 vote(s)
    29.8%
  6. Undecided all around; more information required

    55 vote(s)
    6.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    If he had gloves on, how did he bleed in random drips throughout the RAV?
    If he took his gloves off why no fingerprints? There were 8 separate sets of latent prints found. None of them Avery's or Dassey's(Brendan at least).
    How did he operate the vehicle without getting blood or "sweat" DNA on the gear shift or steering wheel or door handles?
    Why such a large quantity of sweat DNA on the hood latch but none whatsoever anywhere else?
    So he went back and wiped the car down of his fingerprints and DNA but was able to do that without wiping away the 8 latent sets of prints? Does that sound logical?

    Do you see how the states narrative is the most outlandish theory of all? I would go as far as to say it is impossible.
     
  2. Tssiemer

    Tssiemer Well-Known Member

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    Rsbm

    What video?
     
  3. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes Bryan is testifying under oath and has been saying from the beginning that Bobby told him she left.

    But that is not the only time Bobby lied under oath. He also lied when he testified to being home alone and sleeping all afternoon when the computer in his room showed activity all throughout the day.

    Wait, there is more. He also lied under oath when he said of where he went hunting. His phone was pinging in the opposite direction of where he said he was.
     
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  4. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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  5. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    Some possible answers to your questions and all speculation on my part ..

    No fingerprints - whose fingerprints made up the set of 8 ? Can't assume they were Teresa's and could have been police or anyone with access to the car after it was found. But we know Teresa drove the car on 10/31 so someone must have wiped the steering wheel and gear shift down or Teresa had gloves on. If SA was indeed intent on cleaning the car, he might have wiped the steering wheel and gear shift, but missed the blood drop by the ignition switch. IMO, it was pitch black when he moved the car.

    As for the sweat DNA, SA might have gone back to the car another day to disconnect the battery cables in preparation for crushing the car. And who knows, it might have taken SA many tries to ope the hood latch if it was pitch black out.
     
  6. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    He came forward because he saw MaM and realised that Colborn was lying. He didn't know that at the time. He told Scott Tadych this and Tadych did nothing but say he was sick and he'll talk to him later lol.
     
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  7. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Zellner has two witnesses who said TH took their information over the phone while she was pulled over. TH had her day planner sheet with her when she went to Avery's. Ryan somehow ended up with that day planner sheet.
     
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  8. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    Zellner Experiment video's

    @guruagain was able to find it a few weeks ago, just scroll down a bit in that thread :) I think it was shown in one of the later episodes of MaM2, but not gonna lie, I haven't finished watching lol
     
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  9. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Great, that is what Zellner wants. An evidentiary hearing to have these arguments.
     
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  10. proudfootz

    proudfootz Well-Known Member

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    This is the essence of the case for me: The state's theory has too many gaps and leaves too many unexplained facts to compel my belief beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I wonder if they sweated Bobby as hard as they sweated Brendan whether they might have solved the crime.

    IMO neither Teresa nor any of her things were actually burned in Steven's burn pit or burn barrel. The evidence seems to indicate it was planted, as Steven has maintained from day one.

    IIRC we now have an explanation from MaM2 for Colburn's previously inexplicable call about Teresa's license plate number before the RAV was officially 'found' - a witness claims to have spotted it, recognized it from a flyer, and reported it to Colburn personally.

    It's my opinion it was law enforcement employees who planted the key in plain sight in a tiny room that had been searched a few times already and relied on their status as 'honest cops' to get away with it.

    In MaM2 one of Zellener's ballistics experts gives the opinion that at least one of the bullet holes in the garage is from the outside going in. So if indeed the bullet fragment #FL originated inside the garage it could have been a stray bullet that was there for years.

    While we don't have all the answers to how the crime was committed, nor all the answers for exactly how a frame up might have been orchestrated, it seems to me we have a better outline of a plausible scenario that actually tries to account for facts left out by the prosecution case.

    All MOO of course.
     
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  11. proudfootz

    proudfootz Well-Known Member

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    RSBM

    I did find it odd that law enforcement employees took things from Teresa's home and brought them to Avery Salvage Yard.

    In the interest of preventing cross-contamination, you'd think the smart thing to do would be to keep the stuff separate.

    Incompetence or malice? One or the other. Or both.
     
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  12. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    How do you know Bryan is not lying under oath ?
     
  13. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    The Avery trial was all folks talked about in Twin Rivers and Manitowoc and this guy comes forward 10 years later with info that might have exonerated SA at the time ????? And once again, how did this guy know that the vehicle he saw by the bridge was Teresa's ? Did he snap a pic of the license plate ? No other green RAV4s around ?
     
  14. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    How do you know that she forget her day planner that day and was just writing notes on scrap paper ? Is there an image of the actual day planner for 10/31/05 ?
     
  15. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    The new witness. An additional witness came forward to Zellner saying that two days before Teresa's car was discovered on Avery's property, he spotted a teal green RAV4 parked off Route 147. The next day, he saw Teresa missing poster (with the car info on it), and gave that tip to a Manitowoc police officer, whom he identified as Andy Colborn. This is the same officer who made the mysterious dispatch call inquiring about Teresa's vehicle before it was found on Avery's property. He showed proof he texted Scott Tadych, Brendan Dassey's stepfather, to let him know about this potential new evidence, but Tadych never followed up. Zellner later discovered that Tadych's trailer was just three-tenths of a mile down the road from the RAV4 sighting. Tadych and Bobby Dassey both provided alibis for each other, stating that they drove past one another on Route 147 during the time Teresa was at the Avery property.
    Making a Murderer: 8 New Pieces of Evidence We Learned in Season 2 | TV Guide
     
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  16. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    The day planner. Teresa spoke with two people on the day of her disappearance to set up appointments, which she wrote down in her planner while she was out driving. Zellner calculated that Teresa would not have had enough time between appointments to drop her planner off at her house, and yet Hillegas provided the page from her day planner as evidence. Zellner argues that since Teresa couldn't have dropped the planner off at home, it must have been in her car when she was killed, and the only way Ryan Hillegas would have had it was if he'd had access to the car before it was found on the Avery property.
     
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  17. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    The Avery clan lies and lies and lies ...

    From this website ...

    What Making a Murderer didn't tell you

    We have these tidbits ...

    • In Steven's earliest interviews, he first claims Teresa came into his trailer, where he paid her and she left. Once the car is found, he changes his story and claims he went to her car to pay her.
    • Also in Steven's earliest interviews, he lies about his activities on 10/31. He denies having used the burn barrel or burn pit recently. He claims to have spent most of the afternoon and evening alone in his trailer, not going back to work without informing anyone, which was very rare for him. He says he was in bed by 9pm. However, multiple witnesses see him using both the barrel and pit, and there is a recorded phone call from 9pm where he tells Jodi Brendan is over and they've been doing some cleaning. The bones and electronics and bullet had not been found yet, so it's unclear why an innocent man would lie about having fires and cleaning his garage with his nephew.
    • In Brendan's Nov 6 interview, he also lies about spending the night with Avery. He says he went over to Avery's to help push a car into the garage, but went home to eat supper alone and did not see Steven again until the next morning. Again, it is unclear why someone who had no idea there was a body in the fire would lie about having a bonfire with his uncle.
     
  18. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    And another interesting point from the same link:
    The hood latch DNA. When Avery was first arrested, he was taken to a hospital to give DNA samples to investigators. Swabs were taken of his groin area before the nurse on the case realized that the warrant did not call for groin swabs. Lead investigator Tom Fassbender noted that the swabs were disposed of, but the nurse did not. A high concentration of Avery's DNA was found on Teresa's RAV4 hood latch, but the amount found is inconsistent with the amount you'd normally find from touch DNA. Zellner theorized that investigators simply renamed the groin swab "hood latch swab," which is why there was such a high presence of DNA on it.
     
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  19. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    I watched MaM2 and am well aware of the witness coming forward 10 years later or so - but still, there is zero proof that the car was even Teresa's and only his word he spoke directly to Colborn.
     
  20. Sustained

    Sustained Justice for Teresa

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    On what day did Hillegas provide the day planner as evidence to the police and is there a printout/screenshot of what was written in the day planner ?
     
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